ptsd Deceased Veteran Widows Pay

[banchie]

Hi Brothers & Sisters. My life has improved so much thanks to all of you! A slight tear there, sorry.

;)

One of my brother veterans died with his power of attorney assigned to his wife. He was wounded in Nam in the leg and received disability benefits for leg wounds & PTSD. He died of cancer before I could get him A/O connected (was filing the paperwork on presumption). His rate for leg wounds never increased over his lifetime.

The VA has since cut his wife off from any VA benefits. Is this correct? Here is a women who endured a PTSD veteran, and cared for him dying of cancer in her home. Is she entitled to anything? Pension or VA compensation coupled to power of attorney?

Thanks for your help in advance. Banchie VN 67-68'

[Berta]

Delta! I am so glad you have returned here- you know a lot about DIC!

The vet you mentioned-

was the lung cancer lsited as contributing factor on the death certificate or in autopsy results -if there was an autopsy-

you ecratinly are correct that embolisms can travel through arteries and cause strokes, and heart attacks--

Harrison Medical Text is one of the top notch texts of medicine- I was going to buy it and found it was very costly--Brauwald too- a very expensive but definitive medical book-

easier to find good print outs on the net- but these days the VA ignores print outs-

I sent excellent print outs with my AO claim and VA simply listed them under Evidence as "internet printouts" and never read them.

But my IMO doctor made references to medical texts that will have more clout-and he also mentioned that an opining VA doctor gave no supporting medical rationale from any medical text or abstract to support her opinion.

Still treatises and abstracts are just the icing on the cake-in my opinion- because these days it often takes an independent medical opinion to get DIC awards.

Her claim seems completely valid and more than likely the lung cancer contributed to death but-

he was not SC yet for the lung cancer?

Does his cancer fall into the STS Agent Orange cancer list?

She has to re-open that claim via the 21-534 form-

did VA in his lifetime ever deny the claim for AO lung cancer?

Free- I find nothing at all in the VBM as to the last check due the veteran.

Maybe Delta knows more about how that goes-

VA took the amount out of our joint account before the month of death was up when my husband died.

Three 1/2 years later they sent me 2 years of accrued benefits due the vet-

Apparently they just multiplied 24 by 100% rate and subtracted the 30% times 2 years-

and that is how I recovered that last amount (which was 100% check less 30% by time of award for the month of death and retro to 3 years prior to death.)

Thins have changed with DIC situations since then.

You said:

"I went to the VA today to see my husband's file. There is a document in the file that says that I AM entitled to the Last Month payment and a note that says to file whatever it is they file to reverse the reclaimation"

I hope you got a copy of that-I would copy it and send it to the VARO and ask them to resolve this issue since they said you ARE entitled to the money.

Also you need to find a SO or vet rep with enough gumption to get on the phone to VA and ask them exactly what is what with this last check.

Jesse said:

"My question is this: when she is approved for DIC, can she apply and get that last month's check??? If so, what reg and what Form will she use and should we wait until DIC is approved to request the last month's check?? Thanks much, you are the hardest worker on HadIT!!!!!!!! JJ"

Jesse -this is the normal SOP for return of the last compensation check due the veteran-

Free has that statement from the C file of entitlement- I guess things might have changed-

When the widow you are helping gets her DIC award-(15 yeats 100% P & T) and there is no doubt they will award DIC- she will get all accrued benefits that were due the veteran-

Since it appears that there were no accrued benefits from any pending claim at time of death- the last month of the veterans death comp check is the accrued benefit she should receive.

And of course -as long as this was filed(the DIC app) within a year after his death-the DIC will be retro to the month of his death (meaning the next month- EX: died in Dec-so DIC is retro to Dec but would be the Jan 1 check)

I am a claim filed under Bonny V Principi-

Mrs. Bonny pushed her position to the CAVC and won-

Instead of asking for accrued benefits- which there was a 2 year limit on prior to 2003-

Mrs Bonny asked instead for all "periodic monthly benefits due the veteran at time of death."

She skillfully manuevered VA case law-(I think NVLSP repped her at this point)

in a war of the words- and due to her determination now- ALL survivors of men and women who died after Dec 16th 2003 due to service receive ALL accrued benefits due the veteran in the veterans life time.

This decision was momentus but only applied to widows and widowers and many vet orgs fail to even consider it when they get DIC claims.

The reality is this decision could easily apply to the survivors of anyone here at some future time.

I have challenged Bonny V. Principi.

My position is that if a veteran died due to VA health care itself and the widow receives DIC under Sec 1151 and/or FTCA settlement-

the veteran-if they died due to VA malpractice prior to Dec 16, 2003-the date of the regs-

was unable- due to VA health care itself-to hang on until Dec 16, 2003 and thus their survivors have been adversely affected by the Bonny regs and only get 2 years of accrued.

I was awarded 3 years of accrued cut down to only 2 years by the prior regs.

When my claim began -it was only one year of accrued. The VA properly awarded me under the new 2 year regs.

I say they still owe me a year of accrued but when my AO claim succeeds they will have to pay that anyhow under the Nehmer court order.

DIC can get complex. The marriage must be a "deemed valid marriage" and the death must have been contributed to by an SC conditon (proven by medical evidence) or the vet had 100% P & T in place for 10 years or more prior to death.

I recently posted here more info as to other nuances of DIC and how it can be obtained.

5 year rule, POW rule etc etc.Available under the search feature at the top of the page-

[free_spirit_etc]

I noticed this also in researching BVA decisions. How many claims with no merit at all reach the BVA from "widows" who weren't even widows. Alot of times the BVA doesn't spend much time with these - going into all the law - they often dismiss the claim as having no merit.

But they still tie up the system - and often times the RO has had to spend quite a bit of time investigating the claim...interviewing people, checking records, etc.

Actually, it is too bad that every vet can't be afforded the time and attention from the RO that many bogus widow claims do.

There also seems to be a lot of appeals from widows that get pension that don't turn in income, or report when their dependents move out, and then get benefits cut when the VA finds out - that appeal the decisions.

Free

PS Jesse -thank you- and I am one of many here who work hard at this stuff-

and it is work-

I work harder as an advocate than I did as a livestock farmer-

a recent experience ( the third or 4th one like it) I just had -made me realise that there are people out there trying to get DIC under false premises- this situation does NOT involve anyone here- none of them did-

but I wasted countless hours of my time -again-in a situation with no basis in fact for DIC award.

It is demeaning to orgs like Gold Star Wives and the vet org who referred me to two of these "widows" to think of the time the vet orgs spent too-wasted in trying to establish "bogus" claims.

I never see that here at hadit with DIC claims or questions-

Art Bernklau-who some of you might know- Veterans for Constituational LAw or whatever- who rants in numerous Radio broadcasts about VA-

called me again-yesterday- asking me what I could do for this bogus widow-

becasue no vet org would help her ( I can sure see why)

and I rattled off some of the background info I found on her (which I think he knew all along)

and that she had better stop threatening the VA. A real nut case who I expect to threaten me too because she didnt like what I said-

there is no legal basis whatsoever for her claims-she has filed two.

I am sorry to gripe about this- it was last week- but it all put my other work days behind-

I told the vet org no more DIC referrals- if they want help they can come here-

( but bogus widows wont usually get onto a real vets public forum)

[free_spirit_etc]

Also - if the doctor won't give a medical opnion -- getting a copy of their notes can really help. Because they might have mentioned it in their notes. Even that would help. I have seen some BVA decisions that consider information documented in the doctors notes to be very credible and have even stated that they considered them probative BECAUSE they were not documented with the purpose of getting the vet benefits.

This doesn't mean they can ignore IMOs becaue they were given to get the vet benefits. But it does mean that if the doctor documents something in their notes -- without explaining it in detail -- you can submit the notes and back it with medical evidence.

If an IMO just says that lung cancer can cause strokes -- they need to back it with reasons for giving such a decision.

But if the doctor puts in his notes "stroke most likely a complication of patient's lung cancer" the VA wouldn't have expected him to write out all the rationale in detail...not in the doctors notes.

But you CAN submit that type of evidence. Submit medical journal info to show that the documentation in the doctors notes are based on sound medical principles - and ask the VA to accept the opinion - indicating the doctor would not have included it in the doctor notes if that was NOT their opinion --and as the doctor documented it without regard to any application for benefits - its credibility should not be in question.

Free

Delta! I am so glad you have returned here- you know a lot about DIC!

The vet you mentioned-

was the lung cancer lsited as contributing factor on the death certificate or in autopsy results -if there was an autopsy-

you ecratinly are correct that embolisms can travel through arteries and cause strokes, and heart attacks--

Harrison Medical Text is one of the top notch texts of medicine- I was going to buy it and found it was very costly--Brauwald too- a very expensive but definitive medical book-

easier to find good print outs on the net- but these days the VA ignores print outs-

I sent excellent print outs with my AO claim and VA simply listed them under Evidence as "internet printouts" and never read them.

But my IMO doctor made references to medical texts that will have more clout-and he also mentioned that an opining VA doctor gave no supporting medical rationale from any medical text or abstract to support her opinion.

Still treatises and abstracts are just the icing on the cake-in my opinion- because these days it often takes an independent medical opinion to get DIC awards.

Her claim seems completely valid and more than likely the lung cancer contributed to death but-

he was not SC yet for the lung cancer?

Does his cancer fall into the STS Agent Orange cancer list?

She has to re-open that claim via the 21-534 form-

did VA in his lifetime ever deny the claim for AO lung cancer?

Free- I find nothing at all in the VBM as to the last check due the veteran.

Maybe Delta knows more about how that goes-

VA took the amount out of our joint account before the month of death was up when my husband died.

Three 1/2 years later they sent me 2 years of accrued benefits due the vet-

Apparently they just multiplied 24 by 100% rate and subtracted the 30% times 2 years-

and that is how I recovered that last amount (which was 100% check less 30% by time of award for the month of death and retro to 3 years prior to death.)

Thins have changed with DIC situations since then.

You said:

"I went to the VA today to see my husband's file. There is a document in the file that says that I AM entitled to the Last Month payment and a note that says to file whatever it is they file to reverse the reclaimation"

I hope you got a copy of that-I would copy it and send it to the VARO and ask them to resolve this issue since they said you ARE entitled to the money.

Also you need to find a SO or vet rep with enough gumption to get on the phone to VA and ask them exactly what is what with this last check.

Jesse said:

"My question is this: when she is approved for DIC, can she apply and get that last month's check??? If so, what reg and what Form will she use and should we wait until DIC is approved to request the last month's check?? Thanks much, you are the hardest worker on HadIT!!!!!!!! JJ"

Jesse -this is the normal SOP for return of the last compensation check due the veteran-

Free has that statement from the C file of entitlement- I guess things might have changed-

When the widow you are helping gets her DIC award-(15 yeats 100% P & T) and there is no doubt they will award DIC- she will get all accrued benefits that were due the veteran-

Since it appears that there were no accrued benefits from any pending claim at time of death- the last month of the veterans death comp check is the accrued benefit she should receive.

And of course -as long as this was filed(the DIC app) within a year after his death-the DIC will be retro to the month of his death (meaning the next month- EX: died in Dec-so DIC is retro to Dec but would be the Jan 1 check)

I am a claim filed under Bonny V Principi-

Mrs. Bonny pushed her position to the CAVC and won-

Instead of asking for accrued benefits- which there was a 2 year limit on prior to 2003-

Mrs Bonny asked instead for all "periodic monthly benefits due the veteran at time of death."

She skillfully manuevered VA case law-(I think NVLSP repped her at this point)

in a war of the words- and due to her determination now- ALL survivors of men and women who died after Dec 16th 2003 due to service receive ALL accrued benefits due the veteran in the veterans life time.

This decision was momentus but only applied to widows and widowers and many vet orgs fail to even consider it when they get DIC claims.

The reality is this decision could easily apply to the survivors of anyone here at some future time.

I have challenged Bonny V. Principi.

My position is that if a veteran died due to VA health care itself and the widow receives DIC under Sec 1151 and/or FTCA settlement-

the veteran-if they died due to VA malpractice prior to Dec 16, 2003-the date of the regs-

was unable- due to VA health care itself-to hang on until Dec 16, 2003 and thus their survivors have been adversely affected by the Bonny regs and only get 2 years of accrued.

I was awarded 3 years of accrued cut down to only 2 years by the prior regs.

When my claim began -it was only one year of accrued. The VA properly awarded me under the new 2 year regs.

I say they still owe me a year of accrued but when my AO claim succeeds they will have to pay that anyhow under the Nehmer court order.

DIC can get complex. The marriage must be a "deemed valid marriage" and the death must have been contributed to by an SC conditon (proven by medical evidence) or the vet had 100% P & T in place for 10 years or more prior to death.

I recently posted here more info as to other nuances of DIC and how it can be obtained.

5 year rule, POW rule etc etc.Available under the search feature at the top of the page-

Edited July 28, 2007 by free_spirit_etc

[deltaj]

The veteran's widow states that cardiac arrest is listed on the death certificate as the sole cause of this Vietnam veteran's death. She also tells me that while he was alive he did not file a claim for compensation and pension. I'm thinking she needs to get a treating doctor's opinion that lung cancer contributed to this Vietnam veteran's death. Comments please?

Also - if the doctor won't give a medical opnion -- getting a copy of their notes can really help. Because they might have mentioned it in their notes. Even that would help. I have seen some BVA decisions that consider information documented in the doctors notes to be very credible and have even stated that they considered them probative BECAUSE they were not documented with the purpose of getting the vet benefits.

This doesn't mean they can ignore IMOs becaue they were given to get the vet benefits. But it does mean that if the doctor documents something in their notes -- without explaining it in detail -- you can submit the notes and back it with medical evidence.

If an IMO just says that lung cancer can cause strokes -- they need to back it with reasons for giving such a decision.

But if the doctor puts in his notes "stroke most likely a complication of patient's lung cancer" the VA wouldn't have expected him to write out all the rationale in detail...not in the doctors notes.

But you CAN submit that type of evidence. Submit medical journal info to show that the documentation in the doctors notes are based on sound medical principles - and ask the VA to accept the opinion - indicating the doctor would not have included it in the doctor notes if that was NOT their opinion --and as the doctor documented it without regard to any application for benefits - its credibility should not be in question.

Free

[free_spirit_etc]

I would think that would help a lot. An opinion from any doctor would help. And again, I would also check his medical records to see if ANY of the doctors made the connection between the cancer and heart probelms in their notes.

Also -- keep in mind there is more than one "treating physician" here (I assume). The doctor who was "attending" my husband at the hosptial when he died was the one who filled out the death certificate. He was the MD who covered cases of patients of my husband's oncologist - who were hospitalized. But he also had a cancer doctor, a heart specialist, an infection doctor, a pulmonologist - etc.

So you should have access to quite a few different doctors for an opinion. If his heart doctor doesn't note in his records --or isn't willing to give an opinion -what does the oncologist say?

Rarely does someone with cancer die of "cancer." It is the complications that do them in. Pneumonia, heart, malnutrition, infection, etc.

My husband's death certificate lists metastic lung cancer as the cause of death. Odd that he was readmitted to ICU with pneumonia 3 days after they had discharged him and taken him off his antibiotics he was on for pneumonia.

If I was the doctor who released took him off the antibiotics and released him to go home - I wouldn't broadcast that he was back with full pneumonia 3 days later either.

And though his heart was fine when they sent him home -- they had to call in a cadiologist when he came back because his heart was stopping momentarily every time they turned him or laid him a certain way.

Anyway -- cancer (and cancer treatment) take a huge toll on the body. So it might not be difficult to get an opinion that it is at least as likely as not that the cancer contributed to his heart problems.

Free

The veteran's widow states that cardiac arrest is listed on the death certificate as the sole cause of this Vietnam veteran's death. She also tells me that while he was alive he did not file a claim for compensation and pension. I'm thinking she needs to get a treating doctor's opinion that lung cancer contributed to this Vietnam veteran's death. Comments please?

[Berta]

I sure agree with Delta and Free Spirit-

with the cardiac problem listed on the DC as sole cause of death- the widow will absolutely need an independent medical opinion to show the lung cancer contributed.

BUT

One other thing- some months ago the MOPH had a widow's claim (I think I know the MOPH rep who handled this)

and the widow was told her DIC would definitely be awarded due to lung cancer being on the AO list and the deceased vet was incountry-Nam vet.

These Vet reps are continually failing to read the actual presumptive regs-

ANY cancer of an STS type (Soft Tissue Sarcomas)- the list includes 35-or more and I posted it here many times-

is service connectable to Agent Orange exposure.

ANY cancer that is deemed as Lung, trachea, NHL, larynx that is NOT an STS cancer will surely result in a denied claim.

The medical records should be thoroughly reviewed as doctors often use multiple terms for cancer diagnosis.

Thoroughly ---and the specific clinical records that show the cancer is of an STS nature should be copied and sent to the VA in support of the claim.

Raters are not going to take the time to review the entire clinical record to see if an STS term shows up defining the cancer.

I bet the MOPH learned (after the widow got a denial- her husband did NOT have a AO STS cancer)

that number one- you never tell anyone their award is in the bag-

and number two-the regs are meant to be read-and fully comprehended by vet reps.

If this veteran did not have an AO STS cancer causing his lung cancer- the widow has no basis for DIC claim.

If he did she still needs to obtain an IMO to associate the lung cancer with his death.

Edited August 4, 2007 by Berta