Ao And Your 201 File

[Ascomdepot68]

I am in the process of constructing a page per page record of documents I have supplied to VARO in St Petersburg for my claim which has been in since July 7, 2010. Too long for me, reading other persons posts I'm a newbie way in the back of the line. Thing is I'm not going to take it.

Today, I was reading a Military Personnel Records Jacket DA Form 201 (June 1966). Interesting reading, wonder why I never read it in the past.

For those of you without access to one I will repeat word for word the information printed printed on the form. The bold face type is of my making, for emphasis.

On left side:

INSTRUCTIONS

This side of the Military Personnel Records

Jacket is for all official and unofficial

correspondence concerning the individual,

such as officers' orders, requests, personal

documents, training and administrative doc-

uments required by local commanders, affi-

davites or certificates. The documents

listed on the Field Personnel File Divider

(DA Form 201a), will be filed above the

divider. Other documents will be filed

below the divider.

Upon transfer from an organization,the

custodian of this record will remove all

documents filed above the divider and ar-

range the remaining papers in chronological

order with the latest dated paper on top.

Documents which are removed at time of

transfer will be destroyed.

Upon release from active duty or separation

from the service, documents filed above the

divider will be destroyed, and the remain-

ing documents will be disposed of in ac-

ordance with AR640-10

Upon release from active duty, all PER-

SONAL DOCUMENTS (e.g. wills, mar-

riage and birth certificates ) will be re-

turned to the individual.

Field File Section

On right side:

INSTRUCTIONS

THE FOLLOWING LISTED DOCUMENTS WILL BE MAINTAINED ON THIS SIDe

(Documents contained herein may be withdrawn for the purpose of making entries thereon. They will not

be withdrawn for other purposes unless specifically authorized by pertinent regulations)

1. Qualification Record To be maintained in the order named at the topmost

2. Military Leave record documents in the file

3. Loyalty Certificate for personnel of Armed Forces

4. Record of emergency data

5. Report of Medical History Reserve ad other personnel only for whom a health

6. Report of medical examination records jacket is not maintained

7. Enlistment (Induction) Record (Enlisted personnel only)

8. Other documents when required by Department of the Army Instructions

(Record title of form and requiring regulation below)

TITLE REGULATION

Military History Side

I am not a personnel specialist, although in basic when they discovered I could type they tried to make me one, but i had my school already set. I don't know what was regularly destroyed or "disposed" of but from what I have in my posssession I think it was quite a bit. Promotion, weapons merit, assignment, commendations, various miscellaneous orders I was given when I got out. What was destroyed I don't know. What was or what was not above or below the divider I don't know. Perhaps a personnel specialist can chime in here? What I do know is that the VA seems to put a good deal of faith in the 201 file. Gone at a minimum is a lot of info on other personnel on orders you received that could give you a chance at

"buddy letters".

Let me relate a little piece of history. From an earlier post I stated I was stationed at USA ASCOM Depot in 1968-1969. We supplied probably better than 90% of everything in Korea to both US and ROK troops, including AO came through there. Naturally with so much stuff there were shortages, pilferage, breakage to be expected. Expected, not accepted. Having had over a decade to polish their tactics the local bandits were proficient. A favorite ploy was to have someone

in stock control pull the location card on an item. When the truck hit the gate if it was noticed and anything was said, the driver simply said "I brought it in". Without a record of it there was no way to prove theft. For some reason this went on for quite awhile until someone had the bright idea to start checking the trucks on the way in as well as when leaving. That slowed them down for awhile, but some other scheme would always pop up.

Does anyone else see the parallel here between the stuff stolen vs location cards missing and a VBA claim vs missing military records??

On November 7, 2001 then VA Secretary Principi signed a "memorandum of agreement" with the National Archives and Records Administration to cut down the wait time. In that agreement it was to take one working day for a high-priority request and under five-day delivery for routine requests for records. What happened??

The VA waited 5 months two weeks to request my 201 from NARA, according to eBenefits. Then it took 29 days for the records to be received once requested by the VA according to eBenefits. So the "under five working day" standard has been apparently relaxed.

In a "iris" inquiry I asked just that, why the delay of 5 1/2 months delay before even asking for it? The 5 day standard given on that site had come and gone also. I also asked why if there are "herbicide exposure records" as apparently there are, as they show as being requested on eBenefits, why in the world don't they use them to outreach to veterans instead of waiting to seek them when a claim is filed. Of course I will not get a direct answer at first, that's my fault. I guess I should ask easier questions.

In regards to records, both paper and otherwise I would like to make a suggestion. If you are still on active service, if you have children or grandchildren in the service or about to enter the service, any friends, etc. stress to them that at any

opportunity they have collect any documentation even if they think it is not relevant at the time and get it to a safe place. Photos are good. Soil and water samples are good, use sterile containers. Keep all their letters home. My mother kept all my letters home and now 43 years later they are providing me "evidence" to use in my claims.

To "newbies" remember there is a great great deal of difference in what is provided for public consumption and what is really done by the VBA.

To all my fellow brothers in arms and sisters, I say good luck, and don't give up!

[Berta]

"Is there a reasonable chance for them to acquire such records or is it just a key to punch to get a claim off their desk."

I don't think it is either one.

All vets who have succeeded in proving exposure to AO outside of Vietnam ,Korean DMZ area etc, have done all of the research themselves. VA wont look for proof of exposure.

This is a good [int you made:

"Part of my strategy is ask the same thing to several agencies. If you ask oten enough and make your terms variable, eventually you will find a person who actually doesn't know what he/she is doing and send you what you asked for."

That is so true .I got some dynamite evidence that way by using FOIA letters- too long to go into here but the FOIA officers made some major errors with what they sent to me.

The Dept of Labor made one of the errors and threatened to send a US Marshal here to get some sensitive stuff they released by mistake as I refused to send the documents back to them.

By weeks end I had some yard sales to go to and had waiting all week for this US Marshall to show up.(I copied everything I needed first but DOL told me I better not)

I finally called the US Marshall's office in Rochester to get some idea when he was going to show.It was all a ruse. DOL had not even contacted them.

The FOIA stuff helped me prove the first ADA case here in NY for my husband.

Then a few months after that I sent the documents back to DOL with a nice thank you letter.

[Papa]

I have tried several times with the NARA in St. Louis. I need another approach, as all I get is my DD214. I personally think that they certain people's 201s in a special place that they do not want released, but maybe I'm parinoid. What is troubling to me is that I got out in Feb 1972, they are required to hold records locally for 6 to 12 months prior to shipping them to a archive center. Maybe they needed a bigger fire and decided to throw mine in. But, it is time to get my records.

Papa

[Ascomdepot68]

Papa

Can you access eBenefits? If so go online and request your 201 records. Be specific in what you request! When the box pops up tell them you want your entire 201 file, both personnel and medical. Tell them you already have your DD214. Tell them your records do not fall within the reported fire loss of the 1973 fire. For USAF the reported portion lost was " surnames begining with H-Z who were discharged Sept 25, 1947 to December 31. 1963". I don't know what your surname begins with but since you say you were discharged February 1972 your records do not fall within the reported lost category. Put it in there, be specific, and tell them they will have to look. Don't give them the easy way out of just sending a "form" response.

If you do your request online, you will need to send in one of the two forms they will email to you, just be sure to send the right one, it's for signature authorization/verification. If you can't do it online put the same stuff into a letter and send it off. The online should take about 3 weeks

I don't quite get what you mean about your discharge dates and the 6-12 months. If they did hold your records locally for 12 months that would have put them the just about in time for the July 12, 1973 fire Since the "loss" is also supposedly also dependant on discharge date you should have skated regardless of your surname.

Your profile says you are at 50%. Did the VA search for your records or was the disability based on the DD214 and a presumptive location?

Did you have any special assignments or duties in the AF that would give rise to them keeping your records off the grid?

Did you sign a " Servicemen's Statement Concerning Application For Compensation From The Veteran's Administration" DA Form 664 or the USAF equivalent(?) in all the papers thrust at you on discharge. Maybe your file went to the VA right away and never made it to NPRC in St Louis?? The original DA form 664 is attached to SF88 and forwarded to the Adjutant General (in the Army), USAF (?).

Don't give up, your half way (50%) there.

I have tried several times with the NARA in St. Louis. I need another approach, as all I get is my DD214. I personally think that they certain people's 201s in a special place that they do not want released, but maybe I'm parinoid. What is troubling to me is that I got out in Feb 1972, they are required to hold records locally for 6 to 12 months prior to shipping them to a archive center. Maybe they needed a bigger fire and decided to throw mine in. But, it is time to get my records.

Papa

[Papa]

I was told that since I was discharged more then 10 years ago that I would have to request them from NARA in St. Louis. I have done this last week, and will see what they send me. If, I do not get what I requested, I may have to take a trip up there and get it.

Papa

[stillhere]

I was told that since I was discharged more then 10 years ago that I would have to request them from NARA in St. Louis. I have done this last week, and will see what they send me. If, I do not get what I requested, I may have to take a trip up there and get it.

Papa

Papa, That doesn't smell right! Everyone knows that once you file a claim ALL your medical records are at the RO where your claim was filed. The only records that are kep at NARA would be your orders and medals and DD-214 at least that it what I have been told.

Case in point I filed for hearing loss back in 83 and when I filed for DM2 in 2002 I sent a letter requesting ALL of my records including medical and NARA send me my records but also sent me a letter telling me my medical records where at the RO.

[Ascomdepot68]

Papa & stillhere

For what its worth here is an excerpt from the cover letter accompanying the personnel records (13 pages) I got from NPRC.

"Dear Sir or Madam

Thank you for contacting the National Personnel Records Center. Enclosed are the personnnel records requested. However the medical record requested is not at this center. We suggest that

you contact the nearest VA Regional Office to obtain copies of the medical records. If a claim has been filed with the VA it would be helpful to include the VA claim number when contacting them.

.................."

On the other hand NARA, the National Archives and Records Administration, of which NPRC is a part claimed in a separate letter and matter that they puzzled at what the VA was waiting for

"as we do not loan out records in our care". The two mix like oil and water.

IMO I think it would be best if NPRC sent the VA a copy only of the records and kept the original complete 201 file to include the medical portion. That way if there should be another fire

or the records get lost in the mail (don't know what carrier they use) or theVA decides to shred your file, there would be something to go back to and something to copy and send instead

of chasing the only copy available. But that's just how I would do things.

I requested a copy of my entire C file from VARO at St Petersburg under the Privacy Act on January 10 and I'm still waiting. They claim to have 600 requests. I guess their copier is broke.

When the 28th comes I will resend my Privacy Act appeal that is now at the VA General Counsel to the 4 Florida members of the House committee on Veterans Affairs. Oh, well.

Papa, That doesn't smell right! Everyone knows that once you file a claim ALL your medical records are at the RO where your claim was filed. The only records that are kep at NARA would be your orders and medals and DD-214 at least that it what I have been told.

Case in point I filed for hearing loss back in 83 and when I filed for DM2 in 2002 I sent a letter requesting ALL of my records including medical and NARA send me my records but also sent me a letter telling me my medical records where at the RO.