Any Fers Experts

[Berta]

My neighbor- 20 yrs retiree recently filed a VA claim-

he would need a higher rating to make it worthwhile due to his military pension-not eligible for CRSC maybe CRDP but his claim needs a lot of work-

In the late 1990s he worked PT for the local VAMC.

He quit and then asked me how he could get his FERS money back-

long story but I had to handle this for him and the VA personnel dept told me that if he withdrew all FERS contributions and did not go into TSP (the savings plan) he would not be able to re-join FERS if he ever worked for the fed gov again.

Ha said he didnt care and would never go back to the VA or fed employment and he got his money from FERS.

Then about 5 years ago he got a full time job at VA.

He is trying to get disability retirement from them -he has had additional problems-

some with possible SC potential and most are NSC-

SSA has denied him twice because he is still employed at VA (duh)

VA sent him to SSA first as the SSA benefit-if he does get it -is offset I believe to any FERS money-

He seems to think he can collect both SSA and FERS.

I dont think so-

He does not have any documentation whatsoever that he is unable to work but has been given light duty at the VA-

I cannot find at the FERS site if a person leaves fed employment and withdraws their FERS money- if they can be re-established again-

maybe the regs for FERS changed since the VA told me what to tell him- the woman was emphatic that I get him to understand what she said-

if he withdrew from FERS he could not return-

I dont think that personnel has even checked his FERS account and assumes he is in it- he thinks he pays for FERS -but I am not sure of anything he says-

because he had the same insurance vets get- a 200,000 life ins policy-

as I recall Rod -and this vet got letters from VSGLI to convert their vet life insurance . Rod converted his to a private insurance co- and paid for it-

this gut says he still has the 200,000 policy-tells everyone-

and yet he has never made a payment since VSGLI sent him letter telling him he would have to convert to private-

I contacted Rods insurance man in another state, he sent me the whole 9 yards for this vet to establish insurance again-but the vet never picked up all the paperwork-and never bought life insurance anywhere else-

he thinks if he dies his estranged son will still get 200,000 from VSGLI.

He tells every woman he meets about this policy-as I guess they would get the money instead if they marry him-

But his policy is gone.

So now I am thinking -although he told me he does pay back into FERS-now-that maybe he doesnt pay in at all-

does anyone have a good FERS info link as to whether withdraw from FERS prevents re-entering FERS?

Sometimes people get fixed notions-I have known this vet for 12 years and he fixing in on something that isnt a fact--

and thinks there is no FERS offset but another vet I know had his SSA offset by FERS for fed service disability. ?

Edited July 21, 2007 by Berta

[Berta]

Thanks to you too John-

it cost my daughter a couple thousand bucks-

but she was very happy with it-you said it just like she did- to buy back her military time-

it still confuses me a little- John when did CRSR go away?

This is case of a vet friend of mine-former VA employee- he didnt pay into SSA- due to CRSR- he is now 100% VA SC but this is why no SSA disability.

One thing for sure- if this info doesn't apply to too many vets here (and if might apply to many who are guests) this is something to think about if their children go into federal service and will help them to know it.

[john999]

The old civil service retirement stopped being open to new employees in 1984 I believe. Fed employees hired after that date were under FERS. I was hired in 1985 and was under FERS.

[RockyA1911]

If a vet buys back their military time for FERS it is pretty good deal. You only pay a small amount to buy back years of federal service which will contribute towards pension years and annual leave. I bought back about 3 years of time and it only cost me a few hundred dollars.

I wasn't aware that you could buy back your military time under FERS, only CSRS because under CSRS you do not pay into SS and in the military you do pay into it.

Before I retired under CSRS I paid a little over $12K with the interest as I had 11 years of Marine Corps service and didn't know about the "Catch 62" until a year before I retired. I didn't think FERS was connected to the "Catch 62" at all, just those under CSRS that affected the Vietnam Vets mostly because the the WWII and Korean era vets got away scott free with not having to pay anything back.

I think my last SS printout showed I only get about $550 per month when I am eligible for SS anyway. Of which I think there is an 80% offset of it, so I think I'll only receive about $110 per month SS. Correct me if I am wrong.

[Berta]

Rocky- that is what my daughter did and as John said -it is a good deal-

I think I get it- still not sure-

She had 7 years military service-

went into federal service-

I think she had to pay 3-4 thousand dollars - maybe a little less but the mil today pays better than the olden days-she was Mil Intell.

The feds gave her options to buy back this mil time and also a time frame to do it in.

She bought it all back-meaning -(I think) she has a little over 2 years in fed service so far as a civilian plus the 7 years added -as a veteran.9 years into FERS-retirement.

(I know I should not brag- but she got a $3000 fed bonus award after first year of fed service and just got a promotion too- my baby girl works very very hard for the US of A-classified job-dont know what she does ---but she gives it all 150%. I am very proud.)

[GwenW]

I was just reading about this "Catch-62" thing at

Postal Reporter-Postal Veteran Rights

This article was almost all the way down the webpage. Anyway, I thought I'd post it here for ya'll to read and maybe help someone. Since both my husband and I have a disability retirement from the USPS, I don't think it applied to us.

I did read on here, that I maybe shouldn't have cashed in my TSP after my disability retirement...but I did. I was hoping that I might get back some of the taxes that were taken out next year, but seems that might just be wishful thinking. Oh well, it's done now!

Gwen

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posted July 15, 2002

Military Veterans Catch-62

Some military veterans who went on to civilian careers in government are getting a nasty surprise when they turn 62. Their pensions are being cut. The Catch-62, as veterans call it, affects people who served in the military after 1956 and then were hired as civilian employees under the Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS) before Oct. 1, 1982, and who also are eligible for Social Security benefits.

Veterans under CSRS who want their military service to count toward their civilian retirement benefits must make a deposit to the Civil Service Retirement fund amounting to 7 percent of their military earnings. They have to hand over the money before they retire. Veterans hired under the Federal Employees Retirement System must make a deposit worth 3 percent of their military earnings. Veterans make interest-free deposits during the first three years of employment as civilians. After the first three years of employment are over, they must pay the deposits plus interest.

Those hired after Oct. 1, 1982 must make the deposit or receive no credit for their military service in their civilian pensions. But veterans hired before that date--and have enough earnings under Social Security to qualify for Social Security benefits--have a different choice with two options. Under the first option, they can make the required deposit and get full credit for their military service in their civilian pensions throughout retirement. Under the second option, they can waive the deposit in writing and get full credit for their military service until they reach age 62 and become eligible for Social Security benefits. Then the military portion of their retirement credit is taken away, and their pensions are cut.

Mary Ellen Wilson, a retirement specialist at the Office of Personnel Management, said most veterans understand the rule and pay the deposit, ensuring full credit throughout retirement. But many veterans told Government Executive they either weren’t informed of the rule or got bad information from their personnel offices. When they turned 62, they were shocked to learn from OPM that their pensions were about to be reduced.

Tammy Flanagan, a retirement expert with the National Institute of Transition Planning, warned that many veterans may have “ticking time bombs” waiting to go off at their 62nd birthdays. One veteran who retired with 20 years of military service and 18 years of service under CSRS found his pension cut by $1,000 a month when he turned 62. He said he didn’t know about Catch-62. Another veteran said that when he sat down with a retirement counselor in 1997, the counselor didn’t explain the deposit requirement for his five years of military service. In 2002 when he turned 62, his monthly pension benefit dropped $565. “I must hold myself responsible for not being more informed about the laws governing my retirement, but why aren't the commands held responsible for training and counseling personnel about their retirement systems?” he asked.

Veterans who learn about Catch-62 can make the deposit before they leave the government, albeit with interest. If they learn about it afterward, they can appeal to the Office of Personnel Management. OPM can decide to let a veteran make a late deposit if an administrative error is evident. If OPM doesn’t believe the veteran, he or she can appeal to the Merit Systems Protection Board, and ultimately to the courts.

Sometimes appeals work. Sometimes they don’t. In one case before the board, a retired veteran whose personnel office had given him an obsolete form that didn’t mention the Catch-62 rule won the right to submit his deposit and save his pension. In another case, a veteran whose retirement counselor told him the deposit would cost thousands of dollars, when actually it would have cost about $300, won his appeal before the merit board. In other cases, it seemed that people who made a bad decision had second thoughts when they saw the effect on their pensions.

The retirement application form that OPM has used since 1993 clearly describes the Catch-62 rule, Wilson said. Posters hung in agencies’ halls and instructions at retirement seminars describe the Catch-62 rule as well, she said.

“This is a problem that's going to go away in time because we won't have that many people working in government who first came on before 1982,” Wilson said. “It's time-limited … which doesn't alleviate the impact for someone who made a poor financial decision.”

Post-1982 Hires Beware

Veterans hired into civilian service after 1982 shouldn’t rest easy just because the Catch-62 rule doesn’t apply to them. Just ask Stephen Wisniewski, a veteran who works at the Defense Logistics Agency in Battle Creek, Mich., and who will retire under the Federal Employees Retirement System.

Wisniewski said he made a $200 deposit through payroll deductions in the late 1980s. But Defense Finance and Accounting Service (DFAS) officials can’t find his payroll records. So they won’t give him credit for making the deposit.

In an e-mail last year to Wisniewski, a DFAS worker explained that it was taking her a long time to look for his record because “I am trying to sift through 10 years of records to locate one piece of paper.” Then she added information that should give pause to anyone whose records are housed at DFAS: “Not to mention that for the most part, they aren’t in alphabetical order.… Sorry that it is taking so long, but in 1988, we didn’t even exist, which means that the work, if it is here, was transferred to us by disgruntled employees losing their jobs.”

DFAS was created in 1991through the consolidation of many of the finance and accounting operations of the armed forces and Defense agencies. DFAS searched its records in Pensacola, Fla., Charleston, S.C., and Columbus, Ohio, unable to track down Wisniewski’s records.

Wisniewski said other veterans he knows have discovered that DFAS lost their records. Retirement expert Flanagan said examples like Wisniewski’s show the importance of keeping a copy of all of your personnel documents. “I always remind my classes to maintain their own ‘personal’ personnel folders,” she said. “You never know when some documentation that is needed to prove credit for service or a payment might turn up mysteriously missing.”

source: By Brian Friel Govexec