Jump to content
Ads Keep HadIt.com Online. Consider Turning Off Ad Blockers to Keep HadIt.com Online! ×
  • 0

Question


Billyboy

Question

I am seeing a Psychiatrist and a Psychologist. I have an open claim for 50% working on TD. The Psychiatrist wrote "Mr. ******** has been under my care for long history of mood disorder and has been complaint with his treatment. He has been suffering from depression and anxiety in addition to his physical condition related to chronic back pain, neck pain, fibromyalgia, arthritis and hypertension. He seems to be unable to hold any gainful employment.

Signed, Staff Psychiatrist. I did not use this because you all said the VA would deny because she add back, neck pain which I am not connected for. The Psychologist told me I should be 70 or maybe 100% disabled. I asked for a letter stating this and he told since i had an open claim for TD he could not write such a letter? "It would be inproper"? What say ye all. bill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Answers 27
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters For This Question

Recommended Posts

  • HadIt.com Elder

He has been suffering from depression and anxiety in addition to his physical condition related to chronic back pain, neck pain, fibromyalgia, arthritis and hypertension. He seems to be unable to hold any gainful employment.

Billyboy,

I read that your psychiatrist states in addition to. I don't read that he is stating that your other illness, which are not service connected are causing the depression and anxiety.

This is my take on this.

Let's see how the others read this, but I would think that this report should be turned in.

Josephine

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would file the claim, and state provide clinical refrences to depression linked to chronic pain. There are numerous studies which show that most people who suffer from chronic pain, also suffer from depression/mood disorders due to the pain. These same studies show that in the absence of pain, these symptoms of depression normally abate.

I'd file it based upon the link between chronic pain, which you do have an injury which causes it that seems to be service connected already or is pending. I wouldn't try to get the Psych to say anything else, they normally refuse. However you can ask him if he believes that there is a causation or link between you service connected injuries and you chronic pain from these already service connected injuries. Simply put ask him what he believes is CAUSING your mood disoreder, and ask him to annotate it into his notes.

Either way I'd file the claim.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don't they normally indicate this in the axis? Most that I have seen indicate in axis one - mood disorder/anxiety NOS due to general medical condition

Then in axis four (I think it is four) they list your general medical conditions ie back problem, chronic pain, hypertension, etc......

I do not really know for sure but like I said the mental evals that I have seen look something like the above. Now to me that would indicate that mental condition is due to the conditions listed in axis four. However, if some of them are NSC I guess the rater might question what amount each contributes to the mental diagnosis.

This is really a question in answer to the original question I guess. Sorry maybe Bob or one of the others can clarify my confusing post hahshahaha......

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am 50% MDD, 10% Tinnitus and 0% loss of hearing = 60%

"The Psychologist told me I should be 70 or maybe 100% disabled. I asked for a letter stating this and he told since i had an open claim for TD he could not write such a letter"? "It would be inproper"?

Can you tell my why the shrink does NOT want to write a letter for me? Is it something that is not done while you have an open case? bill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It may be due to what lots of vets encounter in the VA system: One VA doctor does not care to go against/contradict what some other VA doctor says...you know, stepping on a fellow doctor's toes as it were.

IMO, it has nothing to do with a case being "open" because if it did, then how could a vet send in any more/new evidence during an open claims case if it weren't allowed? You need to send whatever helpful evidence comes up during the claims process whenever you get it...and you can...there's no regulation preventing that. And a case that is "closed" means a decision has been made...so how is your new evidence -- in this case a statement from the Ph.D. -- going to help you THEN when you had it to submit BEFORE the decision was made but couldn't because the case was "open"? It doesn't make any sense.

I think it's simply because the VA Psychologist does not want to make waves with the VA Psychiatrist. It would be "improper" only in the sense that "in-house rules" are not to cause discord within the "team" so they tend to cover each other.

AFAIK, there is no legal reason why one VA doctor can't contradict another VA doctor...it's probably the peer pressure thing going on. It would take some guts for a doctor to buck the system, too, and I think few VA docs probably have that. So they just don't want to rock the boat.

JMO,

-- John D.

Edited by cloudcroft
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am with Josephine on this one. If you have SC for the OTHER conditions - or SOME of them - they shouldn't be able to deny secondary just because the psychologist also mentioned back and neck (which are not SC).

I think it would be close to impossible to separate out how much of your depression and anxiety is related to your SC conditions and how much is related to you NON Sc conditions - therefore they would have to attribute the whole amount to the SC conditions.

IF you had very minor SC conditions and a HORRID back condition - that would be different.

I think it is horrid that the VA has a system in which a vet is afraid to submit supporting evidence because of one line that the VA might take out of context. However, that IS the way it is - so you were wise to check it out before sending it.

The veteran benefits manual suggests vets get copies of their own records and only send in the ones that support the claim. You are NOT REQUIRED to send evidence which does NOT support your claim.

But again - it is a poor system when a vet has to fear sending a very favorable statement because the VA can have a tendency to pull a tiny part out of the statement and quote it out of context.

Free

He has been suffering from depression and anxiety in addition to his physical condition related to chronic back pain, neck pain, fibromyalgia, arthritis and hypertension. He seems to be unable to hold any gainful employment.

Billyboy,

I read that your psychiatrist states in addition to. I don't read that he is stating that your other illness, which are not service connected are causing the depression and anxiety.

This is my take on this.

Let's see how the others read this, but I would think that this report should be turned in.

Josephine

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Josephine, are you saying depression can cause other pain such as neck, back and so on? You said “provide clinical references", where do I find these?

Some asked about my axis.

1 296.32 Major Depressive Disorder, recurrent, chronic.

2 V71.09 No Diagnosis

3 None

4 Psychosocial stressors that may affect the diagnosis prognosis and treatment of axis 1 is social and employment functioning.

5 GAF 55

Well I saw my Psychologist and he made a total turn around, I will not go into details, he did write this

"I am writing in support of Mr. ******* claim for an increase in his service-connected disability benefits because of unemployability due to Major Depressive Disorder. His current psychiatric symptoms include feelings of depression most of the day, nearly every day, anhedonia daily, increased appetite with weight gain, difficulty staying asleep every night; fatigue every day; frequent feelings of worthlessness; diminished ability to concentrate most days and regular thoughts of suicide without intent. These symptoms currently result in complete occupational impairment and marked social impairment". Both of these doctors work at the VA Hospital and that is where I see them. bill

Edited by Billyboy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • HadIt.com Elder

Billyboy,


I read that your psychiatrist states in addition to. I don't read that he is stating that your other illness, which are not service connected are causing the depression and anxiety.


This is my take on this.

I think that by reading your post that your doctor is stating that you are sufering from

1 296.32 Major Depressive Disorder, recurrent, chronic.

I don't see that he saying that this depression is caused by your non service connected illnesses.

Do you know what is causing such depression?

Have you filed a claim for " Chronic Depression"?

Yes, indeed in answer to your question, depression can most definitely cause many illnesses such as the pain that you mentioned.

Go to the internet and type in " Chronic Depression" and I believe that you will locate the answer to your question.

Josephine

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't see that he saying that this depression is caused by your non service connected illnesses.

No doctor has ever said that my depression has cause anything else.

"Do you know what is causing such depression?"

NO, all I know that when I went to my C&P exam said. Had an abusive father and some real problems in service.

Have you filed a claim for " Chronic Depression"?

didn’t know I could file a claim for Chronic depression?

How do you file a claim for Chronic depression when in the Axis 1 it states “296.32 Major Depressive Disorder, recurrent, chronic”

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Billy,

Can I ask what disabilities you already have an established Service Connection for?

Free

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Billyboy.

I have been reading your posts...what I see is that you are rated 50% for MDD...at this point your condition has increased in serverity...so have you considered filing for an "increase in rating" due to your condition becoming worse...and you can do that...with supporting letters...the one from your doctor is a solid one...the conditions that she mentioned besides your MDD are conditions that do occur due to MDD and can be secondary to your S/C MDD...it is not uncommon...but more to the normal progression...MDD is a disabiliting condition and will effect most area's of your body systems...stress can cause more problems....then you may know...

but not to get off track...back to requesting an increase in rating for your MDD...have close family memebers write letters as to how your behavior of depression has increased...perhaps you have a close friend or clergy memember who has seen a mark change in your irritability...

in order to receive an increase for you MDD you need to submit evidence of support that it has...In the letters...your family can state how you tend to have outbrust.... uncontroled rage....no desire to take care of your personal hygien...your lack of desire to interact with others...your inability to have a restfull sleep...not wanting to leave your confort zone of your home...that you tend to jump to one subject to another...that you become overwhelmed in everyday routiens...that you can not manage your time...that you are not taking care of paying your bills in a timely manner...that you are obsessive with this claim...

Billyboy...you need to file for an increase to get your MDD rating increased...the next increase level I believe is 70%...if you have not filed for TDUI I would do it at the same time...hope this helps

MT

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello MT, I have asked for an increase. I mail a NOD saying, “I don’t believe I was rated correctly and am asking for an increase to 70%” Something like that.

DID YOU READ THE TWO SHRINKS REPORTS ON THIS POST????

I have filed for TDIU and got the BS answer that 60% does not qualify me. They say I need 70%. Latter I found out thru this board that was BS. I sent a NOD on that too.

Thanks for the link, I am starting to read thru it. bill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Billyboy you wrote..

"hello MT, I have asked for an increase. I mail a NOD saying, “I don’t believe I was rated correctly and am asking for an increase to 70%” Something like that.

DID YOU READ THE TWO SHRINKS REPORTS ON THIS POST????

I have filed for TDIU and got the BS answer that 60% does not qualify me. They say I need 70%. Latter I found out thru this board that was BS. I sent a NOD on that too.

Thanks for the link, I am starting to read thru it. bill"

Yes I did read your post...and asking for an increase is the way to go...but inorder to get the increase you have to show how your condition has increased in servirity since your last C/P or evaluation with the VA...as I said in my post you have a solid doctor statement of support...but sometimes the VA wants more then that...hence statement of support from family memebers, friends, those who know you best...those who interact with you daily...those who can give credance to what your doctor statement brings out...those are the ones who are affected most by your S/C disability and can explain the heart and soul of your pain..but this is Just My opionion..

MT

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good Morning bill...

You Wrote.."MT, your personal opinion, would you send both doctor reports in???? bill"

Copied and Paste Dr. statements...

1.)I am seeing a Psychiatrist and a Psychologist. I have an open claim for 50% working on TD. The Psychiatrist wrote "Mr. ******** has been under my care for long history of mood disorder and has been complaint with his treatment. He has been suffering from depression and anxiety in addition to his physical condition related to chronic back pain, neck pain, fibromyalgia, arthritis and hypertension. He seems to be unable to hold any gainful employment.

Signed, Staff Psychiatrist

2.)Well I saw my Psychologist and he made a total turn around, I will not go into details, he did write this

"I am writing in support of Mr. ******* claim for an increase in his service-connected disability benefits because of unemployability due to Major Depressive Disorder. His current psychiatric symptoms include feelings of depression most of the day, nearly every day, anhedonia daily, increased appetite with weight gain, difficulty staying asleep every night; fatigue every day; frequent feelings of worthlessness; diminished ability to concentrate most days and regular thoughts of suicide without intent. These symptoms currently result in complete occupational impairment and marked social impairment". Both of these doctors work at the VA Hospital and that is where I see them. bill"

My annswer is this...Yes, I would send in both of them no questions asked...and I will tell you why...they both support your increase in serverity and unemployability. It doesn't matter Bill if you have other conditions...as long as the S/C disability is what prevents you form working...in your case it does...being 50% for MDD already and with the Doctor statements of support both saying your unemployable will support a higher rating of disability.

Keep in Mind Bill that the VA raters have access to all of your VA records...it's not like they won't see the letters...because they will be in your VA medical records.

I know right now you are feeling like a cat on a hot tin roof...antsy as all hell...but remember Bill today is a new day with it comes a set of new problems...and like yesterdays problems they will resolve...and in the interum you need to try and focus on something positive to make the time go by less stressfull...things will be as they should...take time for Bill...MDD will get the best of you if you let it...so remember you have MDD it doesn't have you...embrace life Bill one day at a time...You are in my Prayers for a swift resolution to your claim...please keep me inform on the progress...

Sincerly

MT

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks Billy - I agree with mountain tyme - It does not so much matter that the doctor said you had OTHER conditions - He was pretty clear that your depression is what keeps you from being able to work. It is more like he was mentioning other conditions as a side issue.

It is hard enough for someone with major depression to hold a job. But if they also have other things that cause pain - it is even harder.

It helps that your SC is FOR depression. I had initially thought you were trying to make the link to another SC illness.

But if the Depression IS your SC - then it doesn't matter WHAT contributes to that depression - if the dperession has increased in severity.

So yeah - besides the initial depression - If you are ALREADY depressed - then having your back hurt, your neck hurt, etc. would make you MORE dperessed. Once you have the depression service connected - ANYTHING that makes it get worse is fair game -- you don't have to be depressed about SC conditions in order for them to count.

You can even be depressed ABOUT not being able to work.

I agree that the buddy statements will help. They will help solidify that it is your depression that is keeping you from working. (To make SURE the VA GETS IT better). It isn't that you can't work because your back hurts as much as being depressed because your back hurts... etc. etc.

I think statements from people RELATING to work could also help. Work is not just employment. So if someone writes a statement about working with you on ANYTHING - and how the depression effects it - that would help.

Again - like mountain tyme says - you want the statements to show an INCREASE in severity.

So even a statement from your friend who said - Billy used to help me work on my cars. I knew he was depressed - but he used to help me quite a bit. Lately I have seen a big change in him - and then discuss the change....

(Now - I call him for help and he doesn't answer the phone. Or he comes over to help - but only helps for about 15 minutes and then doesn't feel like helping anymore... Or he tries to help, but honestly I am kind fo afraid to ask him anymore because he gets distracted and doesn't pay attention to what he is doing - and it is getting kind of dangerous to let him - the last time he helped he started the car while my hand was in the belt....

What kind of work did you do before? If you always did the same line of work - statements related to impairments that would affect your abilities there could help.

And again, I would even see about getting statements from people who could say "I WOULD ask Billy to help, BUT..... and why they don't / can't) or Billy tried to help, BUT (and whatever happened / didn't happen that should have)

Hope this helps

Free

Billyboy you wrote..

"hello MT, I have asked for an increase. I mail a NOD saying, “I don’t believe I was rated correctly and am asking for an increase to 70%” Something like that.

DID YOU READ THE TWO SHRINKS REPORTS ON THIS POST????

I have filed for TDIU and got the BS answer that 60% does not qualify me. They say I need 70%. Latter I found out thru this board that was BS. I sent a NOD on that too.

Thanks for the link, I am starting to read thru it. bill"

Yes I did read your post...and asking for an increase is the way to go...but inorder to get the increase you have to show how your condition has increased in servirity since your last C/P or evaluation with the VA...as I said in my post you have a solid doctor statement of support...but sometimes the VA wants more then that...hence statement of support from family memebers, friends, those who know you best...those who interact with you daily...those who can give credance to what your doctor statement brings out...those are the ones who are affected most by your S/C disability and can explain the heart and soul of your pain..but this is Just My opionion..

MT

Link to comment
Share on other sites

MT, you sent me a link, very helpful. Yet another question, would you use any info from this link to perhaps help my case or would you just send the two dr reports? I have asked family and friends and right now I’m just a little hesitant to ask, I don’t know why but I am. I like this net; I like everyone I talk with. (keyboard to keyboard)

Free, you asked what kind of work did I do, the first 20 years out of the service I had 22 jobs. One time I had a boss giving me a bunch of crap and I told him boss spelled backwards is just a double SOB. Needless to say he fired me. It took a long time but I started my own janitorial business. I kept the offices clean and got no crap. I didn’t have to deal with people and that was just fine, but I finally had it and gave the business to my son.

I will send both reports, thanks bill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good Morning Bill,

let me look into what parts would be a good refernance and will post later today.

MT

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I know the feeling of not wanting to ask right now. It is hard enough to take on all the red-tape - but then when you add in many people filing claims are depressed, very ill, recently widowed - it complicates the whole thing.

The letters might make your claim stronger. But your doctor statements already make it strong.

It is sad that the system is such that you feel like you have to prove 105 out of 100 things - because if you only prove 99 out of 100, the VA might focus on the one not proved.

And I am sure they don't always do that.

Actually, I would think the case is much stronger having the doctor statements and no buddy statements than if you had the buddy statements and no doctor statements. Doctor statements are needed. Buddy statements can be extra.

I would say 22 jobs in 20 years is already a sign that you had a bit of trouble maintaining "employment." And you were very resourceful to have started your own business and make that work for you for as long as you did.

So even that would seem to work in your favor. You tried working and tried working and tried working - and finally started a business that worked for you - and did that as long as you could. And now - you can't even do that.

I wish you much luck - and I think you have an excellent claim for increase and proving unemployability.

Free

MT, you sent me a link, very helpful. Yet another question, would you use any info from this link to perhaps help my case or would you just send the two dr reports? I have asked family and friends and right now I’m just a little hesitant to ask, I don’t know why but I am. I like this net; I like everyone I talk with. (keyboard to keyboard)

Free, you asked what kind of work did I do, the first 20 years out of the service I had 22 jobs. One time I had a boss giving me a bunch of crap and I told him boss spelled backwards is just a double SOB. Needless to say he fired me. It took a long time but I started my own janitorial business. I kept the offices clean and got no crap. I didn’t have to deal with people and that was just fine, but I finally had it and gave the business to my son.

I will send both reports, thanks bill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.


  • veterans-crisis-line.jpg
    The Veterans Crisis Line can help even if you’re not enrolled in VA benefits or health care.

    CHAT NOW

  • question-001.jpeg

    Have Questions? Get Answers.

    Tips on posting on the forums.

    1. Post a clear title like ‘Need help preparing PTSD claim’ or “VA med center won’t schedule my surgery instead of ‘I have a question.
       
    2. Knowledgeable people who don’t have time to read all posts may skip yours if your need isn’t clear in the title.
      I don’t read all posts every login and will gravitate towards those I have more info on.
       
    3. Use paragraphs instead of one massive, rambling introduction or story.
       
      Again – You want to make it easy for others to help. If your question is buried in a monster paragraph, there are fewer who will investigate to dig it out.
     
    Leading too:

    exclamation-point.pngPost straightforward questions and then post background information.
     
    Examples:
     
    • Question A. I was previously denied for apnea – Should I refile a claim?
      • Adding Background information in your post will help members understand what information you are looking for so they can assist you in finding it.
    Rephrase the question: I was diagnosed with apnea in service and received a CPAP machine, but the claim was denied in 2008. Should I refile?
     
    • Question B. I may have PTSD- how can I be sure?
      • See how the details below give us a better understanding of what you’re claiming.
    Rephrase the question: I was involved in a traumatic incident on base in 1974 and have had nightmares ever since, but I did not go to mental health while enlisted. How can I get help?
     
    This gives members a starting point to ask clarifying questions like “Can you post the Reasons for Denial of your claim?”
     
    Note:
     
    • Your first posts on the board may be delayed before they appear as they are reviewed. This process does not take long.
    • Your first posts on the board may be delayed before they appear as they are reviewed. The review requirement will usually be removed by the 6th post. However, we reserve the right to keep anyone on moderator preview.
    • This process allows us to remove spam and other junk posts before hitting the board. We want to keep the focus on VA Claims, and this helps us do that.
  • Most Common VA Disabilities Claimed for Compensation:   

    tinnitus-005.pngptsd-005.pnglumbosacral-005.pngscars-005.pnglimitation-flexion-knee-005.pngdiabetes-005.pnglimitation-motion-ankle-005.pngparalysis-005.pngdegenerative-arthitis-spine-005.pngtbi-traumatic-brain-injury-005.png

  • VA Watchdog

  • Can a 100 percent Disabled Veteran Work and Earn an Income?

    employment 2.jpeg

    You’ve just been rated 100% disabled by the Veterans Affairs. After the excitement of finally having the rating you deserve wears off, you start asking questions. One of the first questions that you might ask is this: It’s a legitimate question – rare is the Veteran that finds themselves sitting on the couch eating bon-bons … Continue reading

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

{terms] and Guidelines