Oil Fires, Dsm-iv,

[yelloownumber5]

Hello everyone,

I'm not sure if this site has been posted but anyone that was in the PGW can get a print out of their locations and what the army says odds of any toxins and what not with oil fires....just go to

https://usachppm.apgea.army.mil/gwf/entry.asp

I had a interview with the VA Neuropsyc

he wrote "Thus, he meets criteria for cognitive disorder not otherwise specified (DSM-IV)." Is this considered a diagnosis? This was during the CCEP PGW Registry. If this is a diag do I claim it from the PGW or just as a claim?

My Vetern Service Officer did not want to help me on this.

Second question. I had the VA's PGW Registry phyical and all he did was take my paperwork that they sent me to fill out. He did explain about the mess with Agent Orange and said the VA is working on stuff. He as well did review my blood test, chest xray and urine. I was never given a "physical" or even looked at physically or asked about any conditions that I may have concerns with or anything that I may think had happened from the PGW. I do have a VA doctor and he did say address any issues with them and that is obvious but I thought this (VA Registry) was a way of connecting these conditions.....One of the scary things is I have had two miscarriages with different women and I do know that is another of the PGW "symptoms/effects" which were one of the questions on the form I filled out

I did complete the CCEP (DOD PGW Registry) while on active duty and they were staight forward and asked for our complaints.....that is how I was set up with the Neuropysch, neurologist and all others.

Thanks in advance and have a wonderful week!

Y#5

Edited September 17, 2007 by yelloownumber5

[Berta]

I would file for CFS as well as sleep apnea-

I suggest you read over the Persian Gulf Vet regs very carefully-38 USc 1117

and also read PGW claims at the BVA.

The Persian Gulf regs provide a way a PGW vet can gain service connection in addition to direct service connection.In other words-say a PGW vet has insercvice nexus that supports PTSD claim.But the vet also from physical symptoms that are found in the regs as a "multisymptom illess" that is undiagnosed or chronic.

The veteran can also file a claim for this disorder requesting service connection under 38 USC 1117 for the multisymptom illness as well as service connection for the PTSD under the regular SC regs.

The medical statement you posted-

But would not the cognitive/memory issues qualify me to make a claim as undiag for the pgw or is this not good enough........The eitology was "Circumscribed deficits in verbal memory and visuoconstruction remains unclear; there are no clear antecedents or risk factors to which they can be easily attributed. The findings also do not appear attributable to motivational factors. Such deficits have at times been reported in Gulf War veterans, and even though (the member) does not appear to have been exposed to a high number of potential neurotoxins, this hypothesis remains viable. The presense of other apparently neurological symptoms, such as the numbness reported by (the member), has also been reported in some samples of Gulf War veterans"

Was this from your private doctor or a VA doctor?

Did the VA opine on this statement in any denial?

When you say VSO- do you mean your vet rep or a VSO who works for the VA?

If you are obtaining an independent medical opinion -please read my post called "Getting an Independent Medical Opinion" under the search feature.

If I were you I would raise the sleep apnea issue for direct SC as well as pursue CFS under the PGW regs.

An IMO doctor would need to have-in addition to all of your medical records- the criteria I posted for an IMO and then the Regs for direct SC as well as PGW prersumtive illnesses.

The sleep apnea- as I understand your post, could be possibly directly attributed to your service by an inservice nexus- Therefore it could mean the CFS claim might not be found as a "qualifying chronic disability" or vice versa-

but one of the claims could succeed.It doesn't matter which one.And you can always challenge the rating if they award.

38 USC 1117 , the court has declared, can rest on buddy statements as competent objective evidence of your symptoms.

Dont overlook all the Gulf war sites that could have a "Looking for" section as well as Military.com and even your own unit might have a members site where you can find buddies.

I commend you for actively trying to obtain these buddy statements, because of the Gutierrez case, the court finds them as competent eye witness accounts of symptomology for PGW veterans.

Edited September 23, 2007 by Berta

[cloudcroft]

y#5,

Oil fires and nerve gas agents are two things we old RVN vets didn't really need to worry about, unlike newer vets and especialy Gulf War vets.

[EDIT: Oops...forgot about Dioxin...AKA: Agent Orange. But I think you guys had more serious chemicals used over there...I mean, I don't recall the VC or NVA using nerve gas on anyone or having such weapons to use. Besides, AO was "friendly fire" and not from the enemy!]

You also should be keeping up with forums such as this one:

http://www.gulfwarvets.com/ubb/ultimatebb....ic;f=4;t=000473

Berta has pointed out the necessity of having a strong nexus whereas this website's thread (above) talks more about symptoms.

Good luck,

-- John D.

Edited September 23, 2007 by cloudcroft

[yelloownumber5]

Berta and Cloud,

Berta that statement on my cognitive status came from from the VA Neurophysc which I have the notes.....That was a quote and I guess how and why I get confused is I gave that paperwork to my county rep that files the claim for me (I know he isn't the final word but he can make it hard getting claims in) and he said "you don't have a case to claim this". I was also going to request the notes from my vocational Rehab counselor as she was concerned she also pointed out my twitching which for me became "normal".... I am getting statements for the sleep apnea from friends because again even though it is in my record my non va rep that files my paperwork said in both cases for the Sleep Apnea and Memory Issues "you do not have grounds for the claim". I took him the VA Neurophysc notes and let him read......now with the Sleep Apnea I did not have statements but I told him and showed him paperwork I had that repeatedly in my medical record talked about "day time fatigue" with 8-9 hours sleep. My current wife was in nursing and she said I stop breathing in my sleep.....and that is how I got it rolling with my primary care physican, however, that was not diag until almost 3 years after I retired but those statement will roll in. Won't the VA say that since I have sleep apnea that is a diag and no CFS? Honestly I have this CPAP and stil tired, however, and I been fighting for my thyroid to be looked at for over 7 years in which they finally say there is a nodule but I have not seen any specialist yet but of course I retired in late 2003. Should I file for the sleep apnea first or it does not matter?

Also due to my GERD/Hiatal Hernia I have now been diag with Barretts Esophgus, this is from the GERD, so do I just do a claim for secondary and what do I ask for.....my VSO Rep always handeled this......and I know if you don't ask for something the VA does not give it to you so I want to make sure I am asking for what I should ask for. Non of these have been claimed under the PGW but just regular claims. TY for ya guidance.

Is there any connection of Thyroid problems and PGW? I was reading the BVA claims last night.....I was getting tired but seen a few ideas.

I will look up those regs again.....my mind just does not function the best and I get confused, your words are my actions. Thanks.

Cloud,

Now, if I have these problems below I marked "yes" to but also diag with acid reflux (which is one below), won't they say the gas, naseua, and all that is related to acid reflux? My acid reflux s.c. was not claimed from the pgw but it should have been connected to that but I do not know how to do such......tks

Thanks for that website.....it gets confustion because I have looked for PGW symptoms, presumptive conditions and find different information and I'm not sure of what is the latest. I'm starting to think I need to say to hell with my county VSO and get in communications with someone with DAV or something that would be more helpful. By the way, when I just had my VA PGW Registry I put on the sheet that I did take the pyridostigmine bromide and also I had two miscarriages with different women ironically both age 27 but he did not say anything nor did he even look at this part of the answers.......am I supposed to know that now I went thru this "va pgw registry" I can file a claim for such or?

stomach cramps YES

gas YES YES YES

diarrhea YES

nausea YES

increased urge to urinate YES

drooling YES only on the left side of my mouth

sweating ?

headaches YES

dizziness YES

eye tearing YES

blurred vision YES YES YES

runny nose Yes but also stuffy which is more annoying

shortness of breath YES

acid stomach, including heartburn or reflux YES GERD that has developed into Barretts Esphogus

tingling of fingers, toes, arms, and legs YES but also Cervical and Lumbar supported DDD but it isn't all from DDD because my limbs will go numb without the rest going numb

muscle twitching, weakness, or cramping YES same as above

But like when I filed a claim for CTS which I have had sports medicine to an EMG which is bilateral positive and they did another test, well it was service connected granted at zero percent but they said most of my symptoms were due to my cervical damage.....

Yes, confusion for me. I understand the C&P is only a physical of those parts at that time but if you have other issues they might send either mixed signals or over shadow what you are there for.......wouldn't it make sense for the examiner to know your current ratings and problems so they can try a little bit harder to seperate this from that (i.e. I have cervical issues that when he does this test and that and he asks what do I feel I may feel only my cervical problems because that is worse than this other test).

Thanks very much......I'm just fustrated with my "representative" and getting confused with different thing I read.

Love ya for all the assistance and patience with me.

I would file for CFS as well as sleep apnea-

I suggest you read over the Persian Gulf Vet regs very carefully-38 USc 1117

and also read PGW claims at the BVA.

The Persian Gulf regs provide a way a PGW vet can gain service connection in addition to direct service connection.In other words-say a PGW vet has insercvice nexus that supports PTSD claim.But the vet also from physical symptoms that are found in the regs as a "multisymptom illess" that is undiagnosed or chronic.

The veteran can also file a claim for this disorder requesting service connection under 38 USC 1117 for the multisymptom illness as well as service connection for the PTSD under the regular SC regs.

The medical statement you posted-

But would not the cognitive/memory issues qualify me to make a claim as undiag for the pgw or is this not good enough........The eitology was "Circumscribed deficits in verbal memory and visuoconstruction remains unclear; there are no clear antecedents or risk factors to which they can be easily attributed. The findings also do not appear attributable to motivational factors. Such deficits have at times been reported in Gulf War veterans, and even though (the member) does not appear to have been exposed to a high number of potential neurotoxins, this hypothesis remains viable. The presense of other apparently neurological symptoms, such as the numbness reported by (the member), has also been reported in some samples of Gulf War veterans"

Was this from your private doctor or a VA doctor?

Did the VA opine on this statement in any denial?

When you say VSO- do you mean your vet rep or a VSO who works for the VA?

If you are obtaining an independent medical opinion -please read my post called "Getting an Independent Medical Opinion" under the search feature.

If I were you I would raise the sleep apnea issue for direct SC as well as pursue CFS under the PGW regs.

An IMO doctor would need to have-in addition to all of your medical records- the criteria I posted for an IMO and then the Regs for direct SC as well as PGW prersumtive illnesses.

The sleep apnea- as I understand your post, could be possibly directly attributed to your service by an inservice nexus- Therefore it could mean the CFS claim might not be found as a "qualifying chronic disability" or vice versa-

but one of the claims could succeed.It doesn't matter which one.And you can always challenge the rating if they award.

38 USC 1117 , the court has declared, can rest on buddy statements as competent objective evidence of your symptoms.

Dont overlook all the Gulf war sites that could have a "Looking for" section as well as Military.com and even your own unit might have a members site where you can find buddies.

I commend you for actively trying to obtain these buddy statements, because of the Gutierrez case, the court finds them as competent eye witness accounts of symptomology for PGW veterans.

Edited September 24, 2007 by yelloownumber5

[Berta]

"Won't the VA say that since I have sleep apnea that is a diag and no CFS"

With sleep problems documented- as I understood your post- in your SMRs-and along with buddy statements- and certainly the wife ,as a professional,who also can send the VA a statement to support what you told us-

I saw the sleep apnea as a potential way to get service connection if the CFS claim is denied.

A veteran or widow can raise any potential way to have their disabilit service connected.

I raised 2 issue in 1995 with VA as to my husband's death-

1.direct service connection of death -for SC PTSD contributing to heart.

2. death By VA.

I proved # 2- that VA caused his death.They denied the PTSD to heart claim.

The DIC comp was the same amount either way.

I have raised 3 issues in the last 4 years for direct SC death-

1. PTSD contributing to death under Section 1151.

2. Agent Orange diabetes as one of numerous misdiagnoses , causing the veterans death.

3. PTSD directly contributing to fatal heart disease

# 2 has 3 IMOs to support and is the strongest case.

The VA, by way of recent correspondence, wants to re-open the PTSD as contributing to Rod's fatal heart disease- this is the claim I filed originally in 1995 or 1996.

I also had re-opened the Sec 1151 PTSD contributing to death claim.

This component of the veterans original Sec 1151 claim which I re-opened after his death was never addressed either by the RO or Gen. COunsel when I filed FTCA death claim.

I have VA correspondence that I offered as evidence from the RO VSM herself-that says the PTSD WAS a component of my Section 1151 award.

If so- if a SC disability (PTSD) is part of a Section 1151 award that stated "multiple" medical errors occured yet did not state what they actually were-

my claim then asks where is the direct SC death award for PTSD contributing to death?

3 ways to go-

For a Direct SC death.

My long point here is-in my opinion- a vet should use any presumptive potentials as well as direct SC approach whatsoever to any claim whenever they can.

One more point-the DAV tried to tell me in 1995 I had no basis for my 2 claims. I won them both.

Some vet rep at the 800# , when I called for status years ago- told me, since I get DIC I have no basis for my AO death claim.

She was wrong.I didnt get angry.I filed a complaint on her.

I have 7 issues before the VA and proper decisions on 3 of them will render my other claims moot.

They could have awarded my AO death claim-my main issue, in 2005 but ignored my evidence.

I believe the wording of my recent response to their letter will get them straightened out.

I am making a long point here but a veteran should raise ANY potential reason for service connection whatsoever by direct or presumptive regs.

Edited September 24, 2007 by Berta

[cloudcroft]

y#5,

[DISCLAIMER: I have no medical background so I can't say what doctors may or not say. Sorry...I tried, but wasn't smart enough to go to medical school]

Well, the main thing you should be concerned with right now is not what anyone of us say here but what a VA doctor's (probably the C&P examiner...hopefully a doctor but might be a NP or PA instead) opinion is, I mean getting him/her to render a medical opinion that "as likely as not" (those magic words) your symptoms are caused by your GW service. Due to the lack of conclusive medical evidence re: "GW Syndrome," the opinion "as likely as not" may be the best you will get. If you do, consider yourself fortunate.

The doctor will, of course, have to give his/her rationale for that statement...hopefully, said doctor will be up on current medical-community opinion re: GW issues and can cite appropriate medical studies on GW ailments to support his/her words "as likely as not." Maybe all you can hope for is the balance tipping slightly in your favor, or at least relative equipoise.

[EDIT: Correction...For the record here, the correct phrase is "more likely than not" which would indicate the doctor thinks the evidence tips in the veterans favor even if only a little bit, i.e., greater than 50%. "As likely as not" would suggest a balance, 50-50, which technically-speaking still would be good since this may allow the Benefit of Doubt doctrine to be applied IF all the other evidence is also balanced. Although I found the phrase "as likely as not" used here (http://www.ejnet.org/rachel/rhwn212.htm), which seems to justify its use as I originally meant it, in the paragraph where it says:

"The conclusion that these illnesses are "at least as likely as not" to occur from Agent Orange exposure is important within the VA because the VA's rules for compensation require a finding that a disease is "as likely as not" to occur from a chemical exposure before that disease becomes compensable."

...I believe the usual phrase is "more likely than not" as it is found used much more often in VA cases and indicates a more than 50% chance in favor of the veteran rather than a 50-50 balance. It's still an educated guess though. Sorry for the confusion.]

Sometimes, especially when a disability is still in controversy -- as these "undiagnosed" GW issues are -- it comes down to an EDUCATED GUESS because doctors just don't know for sure.

As for some of your symptoms being related to GERD, some may be but others may not be: I have GERD myself and experience no nausea for example. And some ailments have similar/shared symptoms. So don't do the VA's work associating these symptoms to GERD instead of to GW service and deny your own claim -- the VA doesn't need your help in denying you but they will certainly appreciate your efforts and most likely will cite your comments as evidence against you in their denial letter -- do your research on BVA and CVA cases re: GW vets with these issues and see what the BVA/CVA say about them, and even though this "undiagnosed" GW medical issue is still controversial and the DOD /VA won't admit to anything about it except deny...until it has conclusive medical evidence to the contrary...which seems only fair if the VA is honest about also being fair to veterans.

Even if the BVA/CVA ruled against the vet (such as this case for example that I happened across accidentally: http://www.va.gov/vetapp03/Files/0314800.txt where the vet lost SC but there's STILL information in there re: these issues). Cases where a vet wins are the best of course, but you can learn much how the BVA/CVA reasons even if vets lose because the BVA/CVA will cite/analyze medical evidence and determine if it applies or not; you can judge your claim against these.

[DISCLAIMER: I am not nor have I ever been a VSO so this also is just IMO]

What VSO to go with? I don't know. I had a state VSO -- Texas Veterans Commission (TVC) -- they were next to useless. I had to go it on my own, mainly because once I had chosen a VSO, other VSOs would not accept my case because I had not gone with them right up front. How was I supposed to know all that when I started and being ignorant of the process, what VSOs were good, bad, indifferent, etc.? Go see a few VSOs in your local area...see if you like how they come across, if they seem competent or not, or even care about vets or not. Then choose the one you feel best about. Even the so-called "good" VSOs have some lazy jerks working for them sometimes...you can't really be sure, so just go on your gut feeling re: their competence and concern for you...or lack thereof. Even if they prove to be useless later on, you can dump them and go on your own...but likely no other vetorg will take you because you started with someone else.

As for your "GW Registry," I don't know what it is all about. Many years ago, I did the AO Registry myself which may be different nowadays. It was just a physical looking for then-known AO caused ailments (and I suppose more statistics for their AO database). None were found at that time. That's the last I have heard of it. The "registry" did nothing else for me and maybe it wasn't supposed to. I suspect your GW Registry is the same so don't expect much from it and you won't be disappointed.

Okay, so you have all these symptoms, still, you need a doctor to verify you HAVE said symptoms, their degree of severity, then to render a medical opinion such as they are "as likely as not" [EDIT: "More likely than not"] SCed. Especially the cervical issue. But you have to face the possibility this will not happen and you won't be able to get any doctor to state that the cervical issue, especially, is more GW related than to any previous injury. That may be a real tough one.

[but hopefully, you won't be like the guy who's wife had to provide pictures of her husband over in the Sand Box to prove he was actually there because his military records did not! Incredible! But that's another topic...]

So do you really think you have a good case or not? If so, go for it, if not, forget it...or wait until you DO have a good case...which may mean finding more persuasive medical evidence.

Basically, it's that simple...and true for the rest of us whether we are GW vets or not.

From your posts I think you tend to over-intellectualize over this, I mean you over-analyze everything to the point of almost inaction. Sure, it's good to speculate "what if the VA does this" or "what if the VA does that" -- as I have said earlier, you DO need to have Plan B, Plan C, etc., for whatever they VA does at any given stage of the process so you can react appropriately and continue your claim without delay -- but you can also "ruminate" yourself into inaction and contribute to your own confusion and complicate your own case. So take things simply, partly by taking them in simple steps.

File a claim for SC for all those symptoms as part of the GW illness or whatever it's called. When you see the C&P examining doctor, and since we don't know exactly what will take place -- exams done/questions asked -- just play it by ear. What you think the doctor needs to know/consider tell him/her.

[You must have been through this before since you already have a 50% rating so you know the ropes so I just restate them here]

Afterwards, get a copy of the C&P and note any mistakes and such. Wait for a decision from VARO because you really can't do anything until then...unless you want to ask for another C&P ASAP if the first one is really off-the-wall. But you can't file a NOD until after you get a decision and SOC.

While waiting for the decision from VARO, plan what you will do about any errors or misrepresentations you saw in the C&P -- or, how to rebut the C&P if it seems to be against you -- should you get a denial from VARO. If VARO grants your claim, game over (usually). If not, file an NOD, addressing the reasons why you were denied.

Basically, it's the same we ALL have to do, just our individual disabilities and what it takes to prove/SC them are different.

Good luck,

-- John D.

Edited September 25, 2007 by cloudcroft

[allan]

>PS- I did a little more research and found "oil fires" were mentioned -as you did in this topic as cause of disability in many PGW veterans.

Many however could not prove a direct linkage to their exposure to the smoke even though they had significant lung problems.

This veteran did.She proved her unit was exposed to the oil fire smoke many times and her SMRs revealed that she had sought treatment many times for for allergic rhinitis/sinusitis.

1)crude oil fires

2)allergic rhinitis/sinusitis

3)significant lung problems

4)neuromuscular disorders

= exposures to high levels of VANADIUM in crude oil?

= Dioxins?

= DU?

or all the above.