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Legislation Pending In Congress Concerning Vets


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This is just a reckless rumor-

on the internet-

There is No Veterans Disarmament Bill.

Edited by Berta
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What about that labeling certain vets "mental defective" a while back and putting them on a no-fly list at airports?

Did that ever happen?

-- John D.

Edited by cloudcroft
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Cloudcraft

I am on a watch list at the Tampa International Airport and I don't know why except I am 100% disabled vet. The TSA won't tell me why I am on the list.

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There are already laws on the books about mentally disabled people not being able to buy guns, so I don't see why they would need to specify veterans....sounds like a rumor to me.....

Cloudcraft I am on a watch list at the Tampa International Airport and I don't know why except I am 100% disabled vet. The TSA won't tell me why I am on the list.
You donate money to the DNC? haha......
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Know well what you mean by not having a gun> I haven't had one since leaving nam in 72!

Cloudcraft

I am on a watch list at the Tampa International Airport and I don't know why except I am 100% disabled vet. The TSA won't tell me why I am on the list.

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It's a rumor... period. The VA did release in 2000 the names of people who had been either inpatient voluntary, or involuntary... to the federal government. This is still unclear as to exactly what names were released, but... there has been nothing since, and the law ALREADY states that if you have been treated in a mental institution (presuming inpatient) you are not eligable to own a handgun. So, there is NO NEED for a new law....

So lets just chill about this... it's all over the net and for no reason.

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VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT TO BAR VETS FROM OWNING GUNS

By Larry Pratt

September 22, 2007

NewsWithViews.com
Hundreds of thousands of veterans -- from Vietnam through Operation Iraqi Freedom -- are at risk of being banned from buying firearms if legislation that is pending in Congress gets enacted.
How? The Veterans Disarmament Act -- which has already passed the House -- would place any veteran who has ever been diagnosed with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) on the federal gun ban list.
This is exactly what President Bill Clinton did over seven years ago when his administration illegitimately added some 83,000 veterans into the National Criminal Information System (NICS system) -- prohibiting them from purchasing firearms, simply because of afflictions like PTSD.
The proposed ban is actually broader. Anyone who is diagnosed as being a tiny danger to himself or others would have his gun rights taken away ... forever. It is section 102(
:unsure:
(1)©(iv) in HR 2640 that provides for dumping raw medical records into the system. Those names -- like the 83,000 records mentioned above -- will then, by law, serve as the basis for gun banning.
No wonder the Military Order of the Purple Heart is opposed to this legislation.
The House bill, HR 2640, is being sponsored by one of the most flaming anti-Second Amendment Representatives in Congress: Carolyn McCarthy (D-NY). Another liberal anti-gunner, Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-VT), is sponsoring the bill in the Senate.
Proponents of the bill say that helpful amendments have been made so that any veteran who gets his name on the NICS list can seek an expungement.
But whenever you talk about expunging names from the Brady NICS system, you’re talking about a procedure that has always been a long shot. Right now, there are NO EXPUNGEMENTS of law-abiding Americans’ names that are taking place under federal level. Why? Because the expungement process which already exists has been blocked for over a decade by a "funds cut-off" engineered by another anti-gunner, Sen. Charles Schumer (D-NY).
So how will this bill make things even worse? Well, two legal terms are radically redefined in the Veterans Disarmament Act to carry out this vicious attack on veterans’ gun rights.
One term relates to who is classified a "mental defective." Forty years ago that term meant one was adjudicated "not guilty" in a court of law by reason of insanity. But under the Veterans Disarmament Act, "mental defective" has been stretched to include anyone whom a psychiatrist determines might be a tiny danger to self or others.
The second term is "adjudicate." In the past, one could only lose one's gun rights through an adjudication by a judge, magistrate or court -- meaning conviction after a trial. Adjudication could only occur in a court with all the protections of due process, including the right to face one's accuser. Now, adjudication in HR 2640 would include a finding by "a court, commission, committee or other authorized person" (namely, a psychiatrist).
Forget the fact that people with PTSD have the same violent crime rate as the rest of us. Vietnam vets with PTSD have had careers and obtained permits to carry firearms concealed. It will now be enough for a psychiatric diagnosis (a "determination" in the language of the bill) to get a veteran barred ­for life ­ from owning guns.

Think of what this bill would do to veterans. If a robber grabs your wallet and takes everything in it, but gives you back $5 to take the bus home, would you call that a financial enhancement? If not, then we should not let HR 2640 supporters call the permission to seek an expungement an enhancement, when prior to this bill, veterans could not legitimately be denied their gun rights after being diagnosed with PTSD.
Veterans with PTSD should not be put in a position to seek an expungement. They have not been convicted (after a trial with due process) of doing anything wrong. If a veteran is thought to be a threat to self or others, there should be a real trial, not an opinion (called a diagnosis) by a psychiatrist.

If members of Congress do not hear from soldiers (active duty and retired) in large numbers, along with the rest of the public, the Veterans Disarmament Act -- misleadingly titled by Rep. McCarthy as the NICS Improvement Amendments Act -- will send this message to veterans: "No good deed goes unpunished."

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RUMOR CONTROL: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS THE

"VETERANS DISARMAMENT ACT" -- Misinformation

abounds regarding H.R. 2640, the NICS

Improvement Amendments Act of 2007.

Story below:

-------------------------

One of the good things about the Internet is that so much information is available to so many.

One of the bad things about the Internet is that anyone can write anything...and there's always going to be someone who will accept it as truth.

Currently, we have that problem.

An article currently appearing on many web sites and blogs speaks of the "Veterans Disarmament Act" and goes on to indicate that veterans with PTSD will have firearms taken away or will not be able to buy firearms (different variations of the article are floating around).

There is no such thing as the "Veterans Disarmament Act." It is a name someone made up.

The bill, if passed, would not take away any firearms nor would it prevent veterans with PTSD from obtaining firearms.

In fact, the bill, if passed, could actually help many veterans who might be on the "no buy" firearms list get off it.

The legislation referred to is H.R. 2640, the NICS

Improvement Amendments Act of 2007. You can find the full legislation on Thomas by typing in the bill number...do that here...

http://thomas.loc.gov/

In 2000, the VA gave the names of 83,000 vets to the NICS (National Instant Criminal Background Check System) database. Some sources say this number is 89,000, or even higher.

The names were of veterans who, in theory, had been admitted to VA psychiatric units. Some claim these names were of vets who were involuntarily admitted...others say it included all admissions. We don't know for sure, but I suspect it was all admissions.

According to federal regulations, firearms and ammo cannot be sold to anyone who "has been adjudicated as a mental defective or has been committed to any mental institution." This is just one of nine categories of persons prevented from buying firearms or ammo...complete list is here... http://www4.law

.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/us

c_sec_18_00000922----000-.html

"Any mental institution" would, obviously, include a VA hospital mental ward. And, the government's definition of a "mental defective" is: “A determination by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority that a person, as a result of marked subnormal intelligence, or mental illness, incompetency, condition, or disease: (1) Is a danger to himself or to others; or (2) Lacks the mental capacity to contract or manage his own affairs. The term shall include a finding of insanity by a court in a criminal case.”

One of the problems with the 2000 data dump was that there was no way to get off this list.

But, H.R. 2640 is trying to resolve that situation. The NRA, working with Democratic lawmakers, has come up with some unique solutions. Read previous article about this here...

http://www.vawatchdog.org/07/

nf07/nfJUN07/nf061107-3.htm

Now, take a look at the above-mentioned provisions in the bill...

(1) IN GENERAL- No department or agency of the Federal Government may provide to the Attorney General any record of an adjudication or determination related to the mental health of a person, or any commitment of a person to a mental institution if--

(A) the adjudication, determination, or commitment, respectively, has been set aside or expunged, or the person has otherwise been fully released or discharged from all mandatory treatment, supervision, or monitoring;

(B) the person has been found by a court, board, commission, or other lawful authority to no longer suffer from the mental health condition that was the basis of the adjudication, determination, or commitment, respectively, or has otherwise been found to be rehabilitated through any procedure available under law; or

© the adjudication, determination, or commitment, respectively, is based solely on a medical finding of disability, without a finding that the person is a danger to himself or to others or that the person lacks the mental capacity to manage his own affairs.

Note that a person cannot be put on the NCIS list solely for a "medical finding or disability." This would mean PTSD patients who have not been committed.

The bill would also require government agencies and states to update the information quarterly so that anyone who doesn't fall under the federal regulations would be removed from the list.

Also, the government must provide a means for a person to take their name off the NICS list if they should no longer be on it. That provision reads:

(A) PROGRAM FOR RELIEF FROM DISABILITIES- Each department or agency of the United States that makes any adjudication or determination related to the mental health of a person or imposes any commitment to a mental institution, as described in subsection (d)(4) and (g)(4) of section 922 of title 18, United States Code, shall establish a program that permits such a person to apply for relief from the disabilities imposed by such subsections. Relief and judicial review shall be available according to the standards prescribed in section 925© of title 18, United States Code.

H.R. 2640, as you can see, is NOT a "Veterans Disarmament Act" nor will it adversely affect veterans with a diagnosis of PTSD.

For those who believe in no controls on firearms purchases, H.R. 2640 goes too far.

For those who believe in strict gun control, H.R. 2640 doesn't go far enough.

You'll have to make up your own mind on this legislation. Just remember, it is NOT the "Veterans Disarmament Act."

For more about veterans and guns, use the VA Watchdog search engine...click here...

http://www.yourvabenefits.org/ses

search.php?q=gun+guns&op=or

-------------------------

Larry Scott --

http://www.vawatchdog.org/07/nf07/nfSEP07/nf092407-3.htm

Edited by allan
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