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Personality Disorder Labeling By The Va


cowgirl

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  • HadIt.com Elder

Thanks for hearing me out. I know there is much discussion and debate on the term "personality disorder" being a reason for disability denial as result of C&Ps. Is there a way to 'correct' or deny this overused labeling term recieved from the C&P exams other than by getting a more clear diagnosis from an IMO or VA doctor? As I understand, many veterans are given this feedback and I am concerned that once given this feedback, it deters appeals based on deep personal insult.

Bascially I see this as the veteran, an adult, that is facing one, two or a myriad of psych disability issues gains another 'worry' with being told they "have or possible diagnosis of" personality disorder. Namely I feel it this says "this adult has been an oddball from the get go and just now got told they were born with it." Once the C&P responds with these "possible" results, there is no follow through care and the label is another ribbon to wear without a frog back. Have had this nagging unresolved "worry" for years,cg

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  • HadIt.com Elder

CG:

The VA not a Doc but the Rater at the VARO diagnosed me with a Personality Disorder. It was not on a single C&P, an IMO or any Doctor I saw in the Military nor at the VA. It hurt like you stated but for the most part it made me buy a DSMV at Half Priced Books and red up on Personality Disorders and what I found out is the best way to defend against it is to go ahead an ask the VA Shrink or C&P Doc if they think that you have a diagnosable Personality Disorder.

There are over a dozen different ones but they all share some things in common and I would suggest that the screening that the Military does would weed out almost all who have one.

List of personality disorders defined in the DSM

The DSM-IV lists ten personality disorders, grouped into three clusters. The DSM also contains a category for behavioral patterns that do not match these ten disorders, but nevertheless exhibit characteristics of a personality disorder. This category is labeled Personality Disorder NOS (Not Otherwise Specified).

Cluster A (odd or eccentric disorders)

* Paranoid personality disorder

* Schizoid personality disorder

* Schizotypal personality disorder

Cluster B (dramatic, emotional, or erratic disorders)

* Antisocial personality disorder

* Borderline personality disorder

* Histrionic personality disorder

* Narcissistic personality disorder

Cluster C (anxious or fearful disorders)

* Avoidant personality disorder

* Dependent personality disorder (not the same as Dysthymia)

* Obsessive-compulsive personality disorder (not the same as Obsessive-compulsive disorder)

[edit] Revisions and exclusions from past DSM editions

The revision of the previous edition of the DSM, DSM-III-R, also contained the Passive-Aggressive Personality Disorder, the Self-Defeating Personality Disorder, and the Sadistic Personality Disorder. Passive-Aggressive Personality Disorder is a pattern of negative attitudes and passive resistance in interpersonal situations. Self-defeating personality disorder is characterized by behavior that consequently undermines the person's pleasure and goals. Sadistic Personality Disorder is a pervasive pattern of cruel, demeaning, and aggressive behavior. These categories were removed in the current version of the DSM, because it is questionable whether these are separate disorders. Passive-Aggressive Personality Disorder and Depressive personality disorder were placed in an appendix of DSM-IV for research purposes.

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  • HadIt.com Elder

x

x

x

A veteran can have a personality disorder AND have a legitimate claim. The problem I'm seeing (like you), is that once a Personality D/O has been entertained, both DoD and VA mental health "specialists" shortcut the work of diagnosing and treating additional clinical issues. Save time and money. It's prejudiced and very wrong. ~Wings

Multi-axial system

The DSM-IV organizes each psychiatric diagnosis into five levels (axes) relating to different aspects of disorder or disability:

Axis I: clinical disorders, including major mental disorders, as well as developmental and learning disorders

Axis II: underlying pervasive or personality conditions, as well as mental retardation

Axis III: Acute medical conditions and Physical disorders.

Axis IV: psychosocial and environmental factors contributing to the disorder

Axis V: Global Assessment of Functioning or Children’s Global Assessment Scale for children under the age of 18. (on a scale from 100 to 0)

Edited by Wings
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  • HadIt.com Elder

Thanks for the feedback dear Pete. I will read up on the personality disorder, but still find issue with the SOC denial and vague near-diagnosis wording. Now, for my next fun question, so if the VA doctors discover that I have a currently diagnosable personality disorder and was treated on active duty for the same, then what? The personality disorder was reason for denial on my SOC for my disability claim, so I guess I need to figure out "what does it mean to me?" because from what I understand - PD is a pre-existing condition, and considered non-treatable and non-compensable by the VA.cg

It hurt like you stated but for the most part it made me buy a DSMV at Half Priced Books and red up on Personality Disorders and what I found out is the best way to defend against it is to go ahead an ask the VA Shrink or C&P Doc if they think that you have a diagnosable Personality Disorder.
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  • HadIt.com Elder

CG:

Wings told you that you can have a personality disorder and still get paid by VA if you are service connected for something else. Almost everyone honestly has some of the traits but it causes you not to be able to function or really deal well with others. Try this link:

http://psychcentral.com/personality/

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I just HATE this whole issue of personality disorder. I wasn't even diagnosed with personality disorders until I sought treatment from the VA 10 years AFTER I retired from the military. If anything I would say that since going to VA mental health, my depression has gotten worse, not better. I did just a little research on borderline PD because that seems to be one of VA's favorite. This one site stated that women tend to get stuck with this label if they are considered a pain in the butt by their providers. Pain in the butt? Who? Me? :rolleyes:

Liz

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  • HadIt.com Elder

What the VA will often do is to diagnose a person with a personality disorder and then try and blame their inability to work on the PD instead of medical conditions. For instance, a vet has a diagnosis of PTSD and the VA also includes a PD diagnosis. The vet can't work so the VA tries to say that the vet is IU because of the PD and not the PTSD. The VA just did this to me on my CUE claim. I was diagnosed with a medical condition within a year of discharge but also a PD. I got service connected and eventually was given TDIU for the medical condition. Now that I file the CUE saying I should have been considered for TDIU from the beginning the VA says all my problems are due to the PD. Fortunately, I have been SC for 35 years so they cannot sever SC, but if they could they probably would based on discovery of a PD. These guys can invent anything to avoid a payout of big bucks. When the VA C&P shrink starts asking you about high school, trouble with the law, and your family problems you know they are on a fishing expedition for a PD diagnosis.

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  • HadIt.com Elder
Thanks for the feedback dear Pete. I will read up on the personality disorder, but still find issue with the SOC denial and vague near-diagnosis wording. Now, for my next fun question, so if the VA doctors discover that I have a currently diagnosable personality disorder and was treated on active duty for the same, then what? The personality disorder was reason for denial on my SOC for my disability claim, so I guess I need to figure out "what does it mean to me?" because from what I understand - PD is a pre-existing condition, and considered non-treatable and non-compensable by the VA.cg

CG, Please look at the Multi-axial system, posted this morning. Really, read it.

Axis l Disorders ARE COMPENSATIBLE.

Axis ll Disorders are NON-Compensatible.

The only way to win this war with the VA is through a non-VA professional: psychiatrist, psychologist or clinical social worker; preferably one who has some working or conceptual knowledge of the VA system - someone who is veteran friendly.

Pay the $75-$150-$300 dollars needed for a proper clinical interview. They can and MUST use the DSM lV to report a Multi-axial diagnosis. Use the Axis l diagnosis to trump their personality d/o . . . .

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  • HadIt.com Elder

Sorry Goofy didnt mean to bother you with my question. I got the feedback first year after retirement, must mean we are special eh? Well back to reading and learnin', hugs'n'moo's at goofy,cg :lol:

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  • HadIt.com Elder

In contrast to Dr. P.'s opinion, and that of a VA 

psychologist in an October 2004 report, a board of two VA 

staff psychiatrists found that the veteran's symptoms were 

primarily consistent with a personality disorder and that it 

did not appear she developed a chronic psychiatric disability 

while on active duty.

Don't we all have some kind of personality trait?.

Time will tell if one can rid themselves of that Personality disorder not otherwise Specified.

First C&P with a diagnois of Generalized anxiety not otherwise specified with depression and that nice " More likely that not".

Second C&P with a Axis 1 - Anxiety not otherwise Specified

Axis 11 - Personality Disorder not otherwise

specified with dependent, borderline, historiian traits.

And Of course their opinion a board of two VA

staff psychiatrists found that the veteran's symptoms were

primarily consistent with a personality disorder and that it

did not appear she developed a chronic psychiatric disability

while on active duty.

Do you think that any other doctor could really get by with that word " APPEARS"

I am certain that the AMC Rating Supervisor will want to get rid of me soon.

I am sure that they lost the third letter from my doctor and wasn't sure what papers the AMC had and what they had lost.

I took the 70 pages down to the Regional Office, had the guy date stamp them. He took the orginals and mailed them to the AMC and

gave me the copies and I had him to date stamp them also and brought them back and and took them to the U. S. Navy Recruiter's Office and she faxed all 70 pages into the AMC.

What a file they will have.

I guess one of my personality traits came out yesterday.

I called this morning and Ernest said, I bet those date stamped papers don't get lost and coming from a military station at that.

Desperate people have to take desperate measures.

My husband wouldn't drive me the 4 hours to Washington, D. C. to hand deliver, so I did the next best thing.

Always,

Josephine

Edited by Josephine
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  • HadIt.com Elder

Gee, the responses here are important, wonder if we should had taken a poll who has,had or is dealing with this.Thanks for responses, good information to consider.cg

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  • HadIt.com Elder

Cowgirl

The PD thing is a big VA/DOD scam. The military or VA shrink digs just deep enough to "find" the PD and then he/she stops and makes that diagnosis.How can a shrink determine a PD in ten minutes? That is immpossible.

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I would think that combat would, too, and therefore be SCed -- I mean if that doesn't change you, I don't know what would.

So much for soldiers from the SandBox combat zones (which is like the RVN, i.e., the "combat zone" is everywhere in that sorry hell-hole) getting kicked out for "personality disorders"...or are they called "adjustment disorders" now?

-- John D.

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Cowgirl:

My outburst on this subject wasn't directed at you personally. I think you brought up a veery good point. I am just so mad about the way the VA and the DOD misuse this so-called diagnosis. I have been labeled with personality disorder after all these years and I feel it interferes with my treatment for other physical issues. Like when I manage to work up enough courage to go to primary care for back & joint pain. The doc thinks I am overstating the severity(sp?) of my pain because according to my records I have historonic traits.

Liz

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  • HadIt.com Elder

Liz,

I think that this " Personality" thing is the most " stupid" thing that the VA has ever used.

This darn "historonic" is ridiculous. I know exactly what you are talking about.

If you are telling the truth then you have over stated your illness.

All of us actresses should get us a job on one of these " Soap Opera's".

My thought on this crap!

Josephine

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As a Hospital Corpsman from 1972-1992 I found that no one wanted to be labled as having a personality disorder. Including me.

It sometimes led to a less than honorable discharge and the label followed you even after leaving the service. From working as a USMC platoon corpsman to working at the OCS clinic at Quantico, I saw the person tagged with "personality disorder" discharged with no service connected disability.

The Navy and Marine Corps attached a stigma to those service men and women who complained of any symptoms which are now called PTSD and Major Depressive Disorder.

I had those symptoms on active duty but would not have gone to an M.D. unless I was coming completely unraveled.

And now I have to prove my claim for PTSD is higher rated than 0%.

You are not alone. My DRO stated I "embellished" my military service and medical records.

How the heck do you do that? Either they are true or not, I did not write my own records.

I think john999 is right "These guys can invent anything to avoid a payout of big bucks" but they cannot rewrite history. mad.gif

Doc John

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