How Many Times Does The Va Require Widows And Orphans To Beg

[free_spirit_etc]

The VA website explains that some widows did not get paid because the VA didn’t always know they had a surviving spouse.

http://www.vba.va.gov/survivorsbenefit.htm

VA to Provide Payments to Eligible Surviving Spouses

“Because VA does not always know if a veteran is survived by a spouse, some surviving spouses have not received the month-of-death benefit to which they are entitled.”

However, those who have read the news know about the “computer glitch.”

The explanation of the computer glitch is that the VA never updated its automated computer systems, which sends out checks and notification letters. As a result, spouses were either denied the final month of payment or asked to send the checks back. If the checks were already deposited or spent, the U.S. Treasury moved to seize the money directly from their accounts.

However, I don’t see a computer glitch causing the major problem. I see the problem caused by the VA employees not following their own procedures.

The “computer glitch” is merely the tip of the iceberg. The problem is much deeper than that.

Shall was say a VA "human employee glitch?" Would it be more effective for them to update the humans, instead of the computers?

When I called the VA to report my husband’s death, I was told that there is no payment for the surviving spouse for the month of death.

Computer glitch? Human Glitch?

However, I DID receive the letter the "computer glitch theory" says were not sent out.

I DID receive the notification letter. The letter clearly stated that if you were the surviving widow, you could be entitled to the month of death payment. It said if you are the surviving spouse you may be entitled to the last payment and call the toll-free number. The computer DID its job.

So I called the VA number. And just like my first call, the VA employee told me there was no such thing as the widow getting the last payment that was due the veteran. Computer glitch? Doesn't seem like it.

I checked the regulations and called again, and was once again told there was no such thing as the widow being entitled to a month of death payment. I had to actually read her the letter, before she believed me.

Then she changed her mind...and said I got to keep it -- But then she decided I should fill out something -- but couldn't decide what - so they wouldn't take the money back. Computer glitch? It doesn't seem like it.

The computer sent the required letter. The humans the letter instructed me to call didn’t know:

1. That the widow was entitled to the payment.

2. What paperwork to fill out to process the month of death claim.

The regulations CLEARLY tell the RO what to do. THEY are supposed to complete the VA Form 119 - to let Finance know NOT to reclaim the money - or if it has been reclaimed already - have finance issue a check.

The regulation M21-1, Part IV 26.02. states:

http://www.warms.vba.va.gov/admin21/m21_1/...4/chg216err.doc

(a) Requests over the phone must be recorded on VA Form 119, “Report of Contact” and the caller must provide oral verification satisfactory to the veteran’s service representative that the caller is the surviving spouse.

The manual TELLS them what to do:

(2) Use a locally generated letter to send one of two possible messages, depending on whether TINQ

(Treasury Inquiry) shows that the veteran’s check or direct deposit has been returned, either:

(a) We will re-issue payment to you; or

(Since you are entitled to the veteran’s payment for the month of death, you are not required to return the check or direct deposit.

(3) In either instance, send the claims folder to Finance with the following notation on OF 41:

“Surviving spouse entitled to 1-time payment of [amount of monthly compensation or pension received by the veteran at time of death] per 38 CFR 3.209©.” If payment has been returned, request Finance to re-issue the payment to the surviving spouse (06A transaction). If payment has not been returned, notify Finance that the overpayment should be removed (08E transaction). Input of the 08E transaction must be accomplished within 45 days of the debt being established. The finance activity must notify the Debt Management Center (DMC) of the action so that they can stop the reclamation process. If the debt has been in the system for 60 days, DMC cannot stop the reclamation process when the finance activity inputs the 08E transaction.

I asked the VA employee to fill out a VA 119, but she told me the 119 was an “in house” form. So instead of doing HER job and filling out the in-house form that the regulations direct them to fill out – she told ME to send in a Statement in Support of Claim – telling them I was entitled to keep the month of death payment.

She informed me that this would keep them from reclaiming the money.

As instructed I filled out the Statement and sent it in. And at least the VA employee wasn't bothered with having to fill out the "in-house" Form 119 that the regulations direct them to fill out when the widow responds to the notice the computer sends out telling her to call.

I guess the "glitchy computer" didn’t read my Statement in Support of Claim because three months later I checked my bank account balance and found that there was a hold on $225 of my funds.

I called the bank to find out why there was a hold placed on the money and they didn’t know. They did some research and found out that the VA had put a hold on the money – the first step in the reclamation process. On May 20, 2007 - three and a half months after my husband died, the VA froze the funds in my personal bank acount without either the VA or the bank so much as notifying me they were doing so.

I contacted the VA and was informed there was no evidence in the record that I was my husband’s widow – despite the fact I sent our marriage license in the same envelope with the Death Certificate, and despite the fact that the Death Certificate itself lists me as the widow.

I re-sent the Death Certificate and the Marriage License.

After I “established” that I was, indeed, my husband’s widow with the VA - the VA informed me that they had no way to stop the reclamation process. But they did inform me that they would reclaim the money from my bank account and issue me a check for that amount.

Two months later - in July, the VA had still not reclaimed the money. Nor did they release the hold. So the money remained in my bank account, but unavailable for me to spend. The bank informed me that the VA could keep an indefinite hold on the money until they decided to reclaim the money or release the hold. Government holds do not have a deadline.

In the meantime, the VA couldn’t issue me a check for the reclaimed money, as they hadn’t reclaimed the money – so they just let the money sit in my bank account - but blocked my access to it.

I do not know what “computer glitch” would be responsible for that – but the humans I contacted were not very helpful.

I finally contacted the VA and informed them that as it had been over six months since my husband died I would like for them to either reclaim the money or release their hold on it.

Though their response informed me they couldn’t do either – that the process was already in action for whatever it was “supposed to do” someone (either a computer or a human) finally reclaimed the money in mid-August 2007

I then sent in a request to be issued a check for my husband’s month of death payment, as I had been informed I could receive a check once the VA reclaimed the money.

I was then informed that as I had now filed a DIC claim, that the issue of whether I was “entitled” to the month of death payment could not be decided until the VA processes my DIC claim.

Isn’t it ironic that the VA would hold up the month of death payment (that every widow is entitled to) for widows who claim their husband’s death is service connected?

If your husband’s death is not service connected, you can get the money (supposedly) promptly. But if your husband’s death is service connected, they can’t make a decision that you are "entitled" to the month of death payment (that is the right of every widow) until they decide if the death is service connected.

It is a rather odd way of applying their motto “To care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow, and his orphan.”

When finally got a copy of my husband’s C-file (requested June 20, 2007 – finally received May 22, 2008 - after multiple requests) – I found a Finance Operations Form stating that I was entitled to the one time payment of my husband’s last check and instructing them to remove the overpayment transaction (i.e. to NOT reclaim the money from my bank account). This was dated June 28, 2007 – a month and a half before the VA reclaimed the money from my bank.

I sent an IRIS to finance on May 29 2008, stating:

“I previously submitted a claim to be allowed to keep my husband's month of death payment. Upon receipt of my husband's C-file, I found that a transmittal form was sent to Finance Operations on 6-28-2007 that states "Surviving Spouse entitled to one time payment of amt of comp or pen received by veteran at time of death. Remove overpayment (08E Transaction) if payment is not returned. 38 CFR 3.20©"

However, these funds were reclaimed from my checking account in August 2007.As these funds were taken out of my bank account 2 months after the overpayment transaction was supposed to be removed, what is the procedure for being repaid the funds that were taken from my account in error? Thank you,XXX”

The VA responded:

Mrs. xxxx:

I will forward your inquiry on for processing.

Sincerely,

Matthew xxx

Again - The manual TELLS them what to do:

returned, either:

(3) In either instance, send the claims folder to Finance with the following notation on OF 41:

“Surviving spouse entitled to 1-time payment of [amount of monthly compensation or pension received by the veteran at time of death] per 38 CFR 3.209©.” If payment has been returned, request Finance to re-issue the payment to the surviving spouse (06A transaction).

It is now January 2009. I have still not received the month of death payment for my husband’s February 5 2007 death. Nor have I received any follow up from the VA on the issue.

What computer glitch caused this? The computer actually did do its job. It sent me the notice. It was the VA employee human errorsthat created the ongoing problem. These include:

a.) Informing me that widows aren’t entitled to month of death payment

b.) Failing to establish in the record that I was the widow though it was clearly noted on the Death Certificate.

c.) Refusing to fill out form VA 119 to stop the reclamation process when I called in response to the VA letter – as VA procedures direct them to do.

d.) Failing to follow up on my Statement in Support of Claim asking to be granted the month of death payment that I sent in per VA instructions.

e.) Failing to follow up on my multiple IRIS submissions asking to be paid my entitlement of my husband’s last payment.

f.) Failing to follow up on their own finance transmittal in my file by stopping the reclamation process OR issuing me a check when the money was reclaimed in August 2007, as the transmittal and their procedures directed.

g.) Failing to follow up and issue me a check even after I sent them an IRIS in May 2008 directing them to the exact date(June 28, 2007) and exact form (The Finance Operations transmittal form) that stated I was entitled to the payment.

I understand that I have to follow up on this once again. However, I have been so busy with other matters that I haven’t taken the time to do so – mostly because I know it will not be as easy as just sending the request and having it appropriately handled. I have to wait until I have time to deal with the multiple IRIS’s, the multiple excuses, the multiple times the VA says they didn’t get what I sent – or that they lost it - and all the other problems that asking for anything from the VA seems to generate.

And I am still dealing with the follow up to the VA losing my claim for burial benefits (more than once), and then just sending a partial payment because they say that there is no evidence that I incurred any plot expenses, the VA insisting they didn’t receive the evidence I sent within one year of the VCAA notice (though I have signed certified mail receipts showing that they didreceive it – and I sent them an IRIS when I sent the evidence, specifically telling them that I sent the evidence and the certified mail receipt number), the VA dismissing my NOD as “untimely” though it was sent and received within the legal timeframe, and the VA still not providing me with the medical opinion they used to deny my DIC claim – despite the fact that I have repeatedly asked for it mulitple times for over a year.

THAT should be as simple as meeting my request. The denial letter refers to a medical opinion received by the VA. I would like to receive a copy of that opinion, as I need it to obtain an IMO to support my claim. The opinion is not in copy of the claim file I was sent. It should be as easy as - Find the opinion. Send it.

But no, the VA wants ME to provide them with the physician’s name and the date of the opinion to “help with their research.” How am I supposed to provide them with information that is on the document I did not receive to assist them in finding the document? The information they say they need to FIND the document is ON the document they have not sent me! (Does the computer know about this?)

But if I get an IMO that does not address that opinion – they can dismiss my IMO, as it didn’t address the evidence “of record.”

So following up on the month of death payment has not been on the top of my priority list, as I need to get other things that are caught in the tangled web of the VA straightened out that are more important.

And because I have no reason to believe that one more request that the situation will be resolved will be handled any more efficiently than all my previous requests have.

Should a widow have to follow up time and time and time again to get her $225 back from the VA? Shouldn’t it have been handled right in the first place – when the “glitchy computer” did send me the notice informing me I might be entitled to the month of death payment – and I did follow up on the notice? (But still had to READ the letter to the VA employee, because she kept insisting that there was no such thing as the widow being entitled to the last payment due the veteran).

Or shouldn’t it have been handled when I sent them the IRIS letting them know the VA had reclaimed the money and I wanted my check? Or shouldn’t it have been handled when I informed them eight months ago that my file even shows I should be sent the payment, but that the payment was never sent?

How many times does the VA require a widow has to beg for what she is legally entitled to? Hopefully after I beg a few more times – the VA will deem me "deserving enough" of my husband’s month of death payment to care for the “widow and orphan” and give my $225 back.

The “computer glitch” is merely the tip of the iceberg. It is so much deeper than that.

Edited January 16, 2009 by free_spirit_etc

[pinikiso]

Hi john999,thanks for posting this thread. By the way any latest updates bout this? Hope to hear from you soon...Thanks and goodluck!

Regards,

pinikiso

Placement financier

[deltaj]

The VA website explains that some widows did not get paid because the VA didn’t always know they had a surviving spouse.

http://www.vba.va.gov/survivorsbenefit.htm

VA to Provide Payments to Eligible Surviving Spouses

“Because VA does not always know if a veteran is survived by a spouse, some surviving spouses have not received the month-of-death benefit to which they are entitled.”

However, those who have read the news know about the “computer glitch.”

The explanation of the computer glitch is that the VA never updated its automated computer systems, which sends out checks and notification letters. As a result, spouses were either denied the final month of payment or asked to send the checks back. If the checks were already deposited or spent, the U.S. Treasury moved to seize the money directly from their accounts.

However, I don’t see a computer glitch causing the major problem. I see the problem caused by the VA employees not following their own procedures.

The “computer glitch” is merely the tip of the iceberg. The problem is much deeper than that.

Shall was say a VA "human employee glitch?" Would it be more effective for them to update the humans, instead of the computers?

When I called the VA to report my husband’s death, I was told that there is no payment for the surviving spouse for the month of death.

Computer glitch? Human Glitch?

However, I DID receive the letter the "computer glitch theory" says were not sent out.

I DID receive the notification letter. The letter clearly stated that if you were the surviving widow, you could be entitled to the month of death payment. It said if you are the surviving spouse you may be entitled to the last payment and call the toll-free number. The computer DID its job.

So I called the VA number. And just like my first call, the VA employee told me there was no such thing as the widow getting the last payment that was due the veteran. Computer glitch? Doesn't seem like it.

I checked the regulations and called again, and was once again told there was no such thing as the widow being entitled to a month of death payment. I had to actually read her the letter, before she believed me.

Then she changed her mind...and said I got to keep it -- But then she decided I should fill out something -- but couldn't decide what - so they wouldn't take the money back. Computer glitch? It doesn't seem like it.

The computer sent the required letter. The humans the letter instructed me to call didn’t know:

1. That the widow was entitled to the payment.

2. What paperwork to fill out to process the month of death claim.

The regulations CLEARLY tell the RO what to do. THEY are supposed to complete the VA Form 119 - to let Finance know NOT to reclaim the money - or if it has been reclaimed already - have finance issue a check.

The regulation M21-1, Part IV 26.02. states:

http://www.warms.vba.va.gov/admin21/m21_1/...4/chg216err.doc

(a) Requests over the phone must be recorded on VA Form 119, “Report of Contact” and the caller must provide oral verification satisfactory to the veteran’s service representative that the caller is the surviving spouse.

The manual TELLS them what to do:

(2) Use a locally generated letter to send one of two possible messages, depending on whether TINQ

(Treasury Inquiry) shows that the veteran’s check or direct deposit has been returned, either:

(a) We will re-issue payment to you; or

(Since you are entitled to the veteran’s payment for the month of death, you are not required to return the check or direct deposit.

(3) In either instance, send the claims folder to Finance with the following notation on OF 41:

“Surviving spouse entitled to 1-time payment of [amount of monthly compensation or pension received by the veteran at time of death] per 38 CFR 3.209©.” If payment has been returned, request Finance to re-issue the payment to the surviving spouse (06A transaction). If payment has not been returned, notify Finance that the overpayment should be removed (08E transaction). Input of the 08E transaction must be accomplished within 45 days of the debt being established. The finance activity must notify the Debt Management Center (DMC) of the action so that they can stop the reclamation process. If the debt has been in the system for 60 days, DMC cannot stop the reclamation process when the finance activity inputs the 08E transaction.

I asked the VA employee to fill out a VA 119, but she told me the 119 was an “in house” form. So instead of doing HER job and filling out the in-house form that the regulations direct them to fill out – she told ME to send in a Statement in Support of Claim – telling them I was entitled to keep the month of death payment.

She informed me that this would keep them from reclaiming the money.

As instructed I filled out the Statement and sent it in. And at least the VA employee wasn't bothered with having to fill out the "in-house" Form 119 that the regulations direct them to fill out when the widow responds to the notice the computer sends out telling her to call.

I guess the "glitchy computer" didn’t read my Statement in Support of Claim because three months later I checked my bank account balance and found that there was a hold on $225 of my funds.

I called the bank to find out why there was a hold placed on the money and they didn’t know. They did some research and found out that the VA had put a hold on the money – the first step in the reclamation process. On May 20, 2007 - three and a half months after my husband died, the VA froze the funds in my personal bank acount without either the VA or the bank so much as notifying me they were doing so.

I contacted the VA and was informed there was no evidence in the record that I was my husband’s widow – despite the fact I sent our marriage license in the same envelope with the Death Certificate, and despite the fact that the Death Certificate itself lists me as the widow.

I re-sent the Death Certificate and the Marriage License.

After I “established” that I was, indeed, my husband’s widow with the VA - the VA informed me that they had no way to stop the reclamation process. But they did inform me that they would reclaim the money from my bank account and issue me a check for that amount.

Two months later - in July, the VA had still not reclaimed the money. Nor did they release the hold. So the money remained in my bank account, but unavailable for me to spend. The bank informed me that the VA could keep an indefinite hold on the money until they decided to reclaim the money or release the hold. Government holds do not have a deadline.

In the meantime, the VA couldn’t issue me a check for the reclaimed money, as they hadn’t reclaimed the money – so they just let the money sit in my bank account - but blocked my access to it.

I do not know what “computer glitch” would be responsible for that – but the humans I contacted were not very helpful.

I finally contacted the VA and informed them that as it had been over six months since my husband died I would like for them to either reclaim the money or release their hold on it.

Though their response informed me they couldn’t do either – that the process was already in action for whatever it was “supposed to do” someone (either a computer or a human) finally reclaimed the money in mid-August 2007

I then sent in a request to be issued a check for my husband’s month of death payment, as I had been informed I could receive a check once the VA reclaimed the money.

I was then informed that as I had now filed a DIC claim, that the issue of whether I was “entitled” to the month of death payment could not be decided until the VA processes my DIC claim.

Isn’t it ironic that the VA would hold up the month of death payment (that every widow is entitled to) for widows who claim their husband’s death is service connected?

If your husband’s death is not service connected, you can get the money (supposedly) promptly. But if your husband’s death is service connected, they can’t make a decision that you are "entitled" to the month of death payment (that is the right of every widow) until they decide if the death is service connected.

It is a rather odd way of applying their motto “To care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow, and his orphan.”

When finally got a copy of my husband’s C-file (requested June 20, 2007 – finally received May 22, 2008 - after multiple requests) – I found a Finance Operations Form stating that I was entitled to the one time payment of my husband’s last check and instructing them to remove the overpayment transaction (i.e. to NOT reclaim the money from my bank account). This was dated June 28, 2007 – a month and a half before the VA reclaimed the money from my bank.

I sent an IRIS to finance on May 29 2008, stating:

“I previously submitted a claim to be allowed to keep my husband's month of death payment. Upon receipt of my husband's C-file, I found that a transmittal form was sent to Finance Operations on 6-28-2007 that states "Surviving Spouse entitled to one time payment of amt of comp or pen received by veteran at time of death. Remove overpayment (08E Transaction) if payment is not returned. 38 CFR 3.20©"

However, these funds were reclaimed from my checking account in August 2007.As these funds were taken out of my bank account 2 months after the overpayment transaction was supposed to be removed, what is the procedure for being repaid the funds that were taken from my account in error? Thank you,XXX”

The VA responded:

Mrs. xxxx:

I will forward your inquiry on for processing.

Sincerely,

Matthew xxx

Again - The manual TELLS them what to do:

returned, either:

(3) In either instance, send the claims folder to Finance with the following notation on OF 41:

“Surviving spouse entitled to 1-time payment of [amount of monthly compensation or pension received by the veteran at time of death] per 38 CFR 3.209©.” If payment has been returned, request Finance to re-issue the payment to the surviving spouse (06A transaction).

It is now January 2009. I have still not received the month of death payment for my husband’s February 5 2007 death. Nor have I received any follow up from the VA on the issue.

What computer glitch caused this? The computer actually did do its job. It sent me the notice. It was the VA employee human errorsthat created the ongoing problem. These include:

a.) Informing me that widows aren’t entitled to month of death payment

b.) Failing to establish in the record that I was the widow though it was clearly noted on the Death Certificate.

c.) Refusing to fill out form VA 119 to stop the reclamation process when I called in response to the VA letter – as VA procedures direct them to do.

d.) Failing to follow up on my Statement in Support of Claim asking to be granted the month of death payment that I sent in per VA instructions.

e.) Failing to follow up on my multiple IRIS submissions asking to be paid my entitlement of my husband’s last payment.

f.) Failing to follow up on their own finance transmittal in my file by stopping the reclamation process OR issuing me a check when the money was reclaimed in August 2007, as the transmittal and their procedures directed.

g.) Failing to follow up and issue me a check even after I sent them an IRIS in May 2008 directing them to the exact date(June 28, 2007) and exact form (The Finance Operations transmittal form) that stated I was entitled to the payment.

I understand that I have to follow up on this once again. However, I have been so busy with other matters that I haven’t taken the time to do so – mostly because I know it will not be as easy as just sending the request and having it appropriately handled. I have to wait until I have time to deal with the multiple IRIS’s, the multiple excuses, the multiple times the VA says they didn’t get what I sent – or that they lost it - and all the other problems that asking for anything from the VA seems to generate.

And I am still dealing with the follow up to the VA losing my claim for burial benefits (more than once), and then just sending a partial payment because they say that there is no evidence that I incurred any plot expenses, the VA insisting they didn’t receive the evidence I sent within one year of the VCAA notice (though I have signed certified mail receipts showing that they didreceive it – and I sent them an IRIS when I sent the evidence, specifically telling them that I sent the evidence and the certified mail receipt number), the VA dismissing my NOD as “untimely” though it was sent and received within the legal timeframe, and the VA still not providing me with the medical opinion they used to deny my DIC claim – despite the fact that I have repeatedly asked for it mulitple times for over a year.

THAT should be as simple as meeting my request. The denial letter refers to a medical opinion received by the VA. I would like to receive a copy of that opinion, as I need it to obtain an IMO to support my claim. The opinion is not in copy of the claim file I was sent. It should be as easy as - Find the opinion. Send it.

But no, the VA wants ME to provide them with the physician’s name and the date of the opinion to “help with their research.” How am I supposed to provide them with information that is on the document I did not receive to assist them in finding the document? The information they say they need to FIND the document is ON the document they have not sent me! (Does the computer know about this?)

But if I get an IMO that does not address that opinion – they can dismiss my IMO, as it didn’t address the evidence “of record.”

So following up on the month of death payment has not been on the top of my priority list, as I need to get other things that are caught in the tangled web of the VA straightened out that are more important.

And because I have no reason to believe that one more request that the situation will be resolved will be handled any more efficiently than all my previous requests have.

Should a widow have to follow up time and time and time again to get her $225 back from the VA? Shouldn’t it have been handled right in the first place – when the “glitchy computer” did send me the notice informing me I might be entitled to the month of death payment – and I did follow up on the notice? (But still had to READ the letter to the VA employee, because she kept insisting that there was no such thing as the widow being entitled to the last payment due the veteran).

Or shouldn’t it have been handled when I sent them the IRIS letting them know the VA had reclaimed the money and I wanted my check? Or shouldn’t it have been handled when I informed them eight months ago that my file even shows I should be sent the payment, but that the payment was never sent?

How many times does the VA require a widow has to beg for what she is legally entitled to? Hopefully after I beg a few more times – the VA will deem me "deserving enough" of my husband’s month of death payment to care for the “widow and orphan” and give my $225 back.

The “computer glitch” is merely the tip of the iceberg. It is so much deeper than that.

Free Spirit, If you haven't been repaid yet I suggest you contact your U.S. Senators and your U.S. Representative from your state.

[free_spirit_etc]

Free Spirit, If you haven't been repaid yet I suggest you contact your U.S. Senators and your U.S. Representative from your state.

Thanks! I finally did get paid - for that, at least. But yes, I had to contact my Congressman. Even when I had called and sent IRIS under the "special program" for widows who had not gotten paid - I just got a run-around or non-response.

After the Congressman contacted them - I got my check REAL fast - and a letter where they actually admitted it was THEIR error that I did not get paid much sooner.