tinnitus Bivouac 1968 Sheppard Air Force Base Tx

[halos2]

The VA does not acknowledge this training I went through. They say my mos is not congruent with tinnitus claim. It is documented in my smr/str however they act like it is not in the records.

Anyone else attend this around this year?

Anyone else do the airplane crash scene, or bombs/grenades/artilitary/gas mask and removal of mask in totally dark building? What about being left out in the wilderness, and having to find your way back? What about treating the "fake patients" injuries while on Bivouac? We went to a very remote site in Ok. We were there over a week, and then I left 2 days early r/t pink eye. Man it was dirty, scarey, and I still don't like odors/smells of any cleansers, gases, and darkness, and man did the tears flow, and the choaking and gasping for air when the masks were removed. Very scarey time. Loud noises all around, and the obstical courses and barbed wire trenches too. Alot of dirt/dust.

Anyone else attend this school?

Any further help would be appreciated. My award letters were left at my mom's house all these years and she has alzheimers and all my original certs are gone, as well as diploma's, etc. I do have this noted in my smr/str that I was treated at sick call and released from bivouac early for pink eye though. The VA act like it is not there, even when brought to their attention written/verbally. My hearing was ex upon enlistment, decreasing upon discharge, and impaired much over the years(VA exams show major deficit and hearing aid in rt ear)with the constant "ringing". Thanks to any who may offer assistance here too.

Edited February 8, 2009 by halos2

[Wings]

Wings,

I found this site, but not her facebook address, thanks.

Also they would throw grenades around some tents to wake us up and after a few days I never heard them and others would shake me to wake me. (Don't know where any of these people are now).

I wrote to her on your behalf, anonymously. I will let you know if she responds. Here is a copy of that email:

Hello Carole!

I read your excellent narrative about your (1971) AF Training at Sheppard AFB, and am contacting you to see if you might be able to help another woman veteran, who claims hearing loss as a result of the intensity of bivouac training (OK). She claims to have been injured by loud noises from the mock training, specifically "grenades" that were thrown. She attended bivouac in 1968. I am wondering if you might have also experienced very loud, potentially damaging noises from the field exercises; and whether you might be able to assert or state in a "buddy letter" to the authenticity of these experiences.

I do not work for the VA. I am a disabled woman veteran, a veterans advocate prose, and a member of an on-line, active veterans community at www.hadit.com PLEASE feel free to join us!

The woman veteran in question, could not acceess your my space contact page, so I am writing on her behalf. Please forgive me if I have intruded into your privacy.

If you would email me, then I would forward your email to her, directly. Thanks. I salute your service!

~Wings, USAF 1980-1986

[halos2]

Wings, You are a gem! I did find a different email address of Carole's and I emailed her and she answered me very early that she does not remember anything else, no names to contact but felt what she wrote was basically what she remembered on the 2 sites she wrote on. She said she would keep in touch if there was anything she might be able to help with. The facebook or myspace site would never open for me at all. She sells books and jewelry and I was able to contact her via that site.

If you do hear from her I appreciate any info.

I hope others may come about with knowledge of this training. She did tell me my experience was worse than her's and the time(length) was longer for me too. She didn't write of the gas chamber experience. She did acknowledge that maybe they decreased the days and experiences in dec 1971 from mar 1968 though. OMG the buddy type letter is a wonderful thought. You go girl!!

Any info I appreciate. You are more savy of searching and computers than I. I would rather have a few messages sent out for help then none. Thanks again wings :D Excellent letter wings!

I wrote to her on your behalf, anonymously. I will let you know if she responds. Here is a copy of that email:

Hello Carole!

I read your excellent narrative about your (1971) AF Training at Sheppard AFB, and am contacting you to see if you might be able to help another woman veteran, who claims hearing loss as a result of the intensity of bivouac training (OK). She claims to have been injured by loud noises from the mock training, specifically "grenades" that were thrown. She attended bivouac in 1968. I am wondering if you might have also experienced very loud, potentially damaging noises from the field exercises; and whether you might be able to assert or state in a "buddy letter" to the authenticity of these experiences.

I do not work for the VA. I am a disabled woman veteran, a veterans advocate prose, and a member of an on-line, active veterans community at www.hadit.com PLEASE feel free to join us!

The woman veteran in question, could not acceess your my space contact page, so I am writing on her behalf. Please forgive me if I have intruded into your privacy.

If you would email me, then I would forward your email to her, directly. Thanks. I salute your service!

~Wings, USAF 1980-1986

[halos2]

I don't ever remember being told the name of the place, only that is was in Ok. Did you attend a medical obstical bivouac course while in the usaf?

was it Camp Gruber?? seems that name keeps ringing in my head.

[halos2]

Sharon, I had requested under FOIA my complete file including any/all info written, records, immunizations,promotions, training, smr's,everything a total of 5 times and would receive only partial papers, and many blank pages...Finally I called the VARO and told them I was coming down there to get it all and they gave me a time and date to come...

I drove 157 miles and they were not happy I came and they let me look at the folders, and I was telling them and showing them what I did and mostly didn't have and needed copies of all and they said they could not make me copies as their copier broke down!! I said WHAT? This is a 4 story building and you only have 1 copier?

They said they could not afford to have a va employee sit with me any longer while I viewed my file as it was taking too long( 1 hour) so they would mail it all to me. I was so po'ed when I left as they made me drive down there for nothing. About 5-6 days later I got another brown envelope from them with more files. Do I have them all? I don't know. I can't find a 201 though.

They loose so much stuff I send them, I go through my VFW VSO to hand it in anymore. He just walks it across the hall. I find it interesting when I get a soc they make referrence to files they have read at a va facility in another state...never been to any other va and never ever been to that state either in my entire life.

I will try that route too, thanks. IRIS doesn't seem to know anything either. :D

If you get a copy of your 201 Personnel File it should show where your training occurred. You can order it a www.vetrec.archieves.gov

[Jayg]

Grenades? In presenting your claim, you want to be more ordinance specific. You say "training grenades" and nobody will accept a hearing loss argument from you. Those were just grenade bodies which about a 3/4" or 1" hole drilled in the bottom. The 'detonation' was nothing more than the blasting cap of the standard grenade fuse going off and that wasn't as loud as a firecracker.

you might consider they used an "artillery simulator." That would have given a shap whistle before going off and was pretty loud but still not bad. I just did a search "artillery simulators AND decibels." Got a lot of hits. A quick scan revealed numbers ranging between 84 to 165 db. To put that in perspective, a .22 cal. long rifle puts out about 99db. It takes approximately 100db to produce minimal permanent impact loss.

Not to be a nay sayer, but to put your claim chances in perspective, I spent 4 years in the artillery driving tactical vehicles and performing fire direction duties. Complained of tinnitus in service and got a PULHES P3 rating. Loss of records kept me in the arty 2 more years after that.

I am presently 10% tinnitus and 0% s/c bi-lat hearing loss and I don't rate a hearing aid.

your chances of getting a rating on one bivouac pyrotechnic exposure are not good. :D Any closeness to flight lines? Maintenence sheds running loud machinery?? In service illness and/or meds with risk to hearing???

I would think you should try to find a firmer contributing exposure.

I'm sorry not to have anytjhing more positive to add but felt you needed to hear this.

[Wings]

Wings, You are a gem! I did find a different email address of Carole's and I emailed her and she answered me very early that she does not remember anything else, no names to contact but felt what she wrote was basically what she remembered on the 2 sites she wrote on. She said she would keep in touch if there was anything she might be able to help with. The facebook or myspace site would never open for me at all. She sells books and jewelry and I was able to contact her via that site.

If you do hear from her I appreciate any info.

I hope others may come about with knowledge of this training. She did tell me my experience was worse than her's and the time(length) was longer for me too. She didn't write of the gas chamber experience. She did acknowledge that maybe they decreased the days and experiences in dec 1971 from mar 1968 though. OMG the buddy type letter is a wonderful thought. You go girl!!

Any info I appreciate. You are more savy of searching and computers than I. I would rather have a few messages sent out for help then none. Thanks again wings :D Excellent letter wings!

Email communication:

>>>Hi. Yes, the smoke bombs were loud; I remember that. But I didn't suffer any hearing loss. I'd be happy to state that in a letter, but I don't know if it'll do any good. Of course, I was in bivouac training in 1972, so maybe they toned it down some? (Apparently, I got the date wrong in my article. We had bivouac training at the end of the 4-month course, which would've made it in March 1972. Carole

>>>Carol, Thanks for responding so quickly! The woman veteran claiming hearing loss did write to the hadit.com forum, and stated you and she had connected via email. She suffers hearing loss, and is trying to service-connect the issue. Do you think the smoke bombs were loud enough to do some damage? There may be other contributing factors as well; perhaps an inner ear infection at some point while active duty? In any case, if the two of you have already connected, then I will step out and let her communicate with you directly. If she feels a buddy statement would help her substantiate her VA Claim, then she can let you know. Thanks again woman veteran, I salute your service. ~Wings, USAF 1980-1986, medical corps