ptsd C&p Exam Advice

[*Bergie*]

I have read quite a large number of posts from everyone regarding horror stories at c&p exams, especially PTSD exams. I know first hand as I was told during my exam for a NOD that I "have not played the game long enough" and that "I needed to wait a few years, then I'll get it". Anyway, I just thought of this, maybe someone else has mentioned it I don't know. I think that everytime we have these exams we should bring a small tape recorder and record the BS, don't mention the recorder until after the exam and see how their attitude changes. This would sure turn heads if the public could see what we go through. Another sad misconseption, the doctors at the VAMC and clinics sure don't have a clue with regard to the c&p doc's and the VARO. Ok I'm through venting, thanks for listening!!!

Have a nice day,

Bergie

[WHOLESALE]

Instead, why don't you let them know upfront that you're recording and I think you have to get their permission to do it anyway. If you do it without their knowledge you best NOT tell them afterwords unless you want to set yourself up with legal issues.

Jay

I have read quite a large number of posts from everyone regarding horror stories at c&p exams, especially PTSD exams. I know first hand as I was told during my exam for a NOD that I "have not played the game long enough" and that "I needed to wait a few years, then I'll get it". Anyway, I just thought of this, maybe someone else has mentioned it I don't know. I think that everytime we have these exams we should bring a small tape recorder and record the BS, don't mention the recorder until after the exam and see how their attitude changes. This would sure turn heads if the public could see what we go through. Another sad misconseption, the doctors at the VAMC and clinics sure don't have a clue with regard to the c&p doc's and the VARO. Ok I'm through venting, thanks for listening!!!

Have a nice day,

Bergie

[purple]

It is true that, legally, you're not allowed to record a C&P exam. That's why it's a good idea to take someone with you.

It's just how the VA CYA's because they know they are screwing vets over.

I'm not sure how the reg reads though. Does it say the vet cannot record the exam? Or does it say that anyone cannot record the exam? If it's the first....well then, there's your out.

[WHOLESALE]

I'm not saying "don't do it."

I'm just saying legally you're binded to inform "anyone" when you are recording a conversation.

Heck, I'd do it. I just wouldn't let the examiner know. I definetely wouldn't do it then let the examiner know I did it after the fact. That would not play into the Veterans favor. Might piss the examiner off and that's the last thing you want to do.

Even if the examiner states something in the exam that's off a little what are you accomplishing? You can't use the tape against the VA if you didn't inform the examiner you were recording it. If you did let them know before hand then "YES" you could come back with the tape and use it as evidence.

Jay

It is true that, legally, you're not allowed to record a C&P exam. That's why it's a good idea to take someone with you.

It's just how the VA CYA's because they know they are screwing vets over.

I'm not sure how the reg reads though. Does it say the vet cannot record the exam? Or does it say that anyone cannot record the exam? If it's the first....well then, there's your out.

[WHOLESALE]

Here are the states that require 2-person consent.

Twelve states currently require that BOTH or ALL parties consent to the recording. These states are:

California

Connecticut

Florida

Illinois

Maryland

Massachusetts

Michigan

Montana

Nevada

New Hampshire

Pennsylvania

Washington

I have read quite a large number of posts from everyone regarding horror stories at c&p exams, especially PTSD exams. I know first hand as I was told during my exam for a NOD that I "have not played the game long enough" and that "I needed to wait a few years, then I'll get it". Anyway, I just thought of this, maybe someone else has mentioned it I don't know. I think that everytime we have these exams we should bring a small tape recorder and record the BS, don't mention the recorder until after the exam and see how their attitude changes. This would sure turn heads if the public could see what we go through. Another sad misconseption, the doctors at the VAMC and clinics sure don't have a clue with regard to the c&p doc's and the VARO. Ok I'm through venting, thanks for listening!!!

Have a nice day,

Bergie

[LarryJ]

Jay, your list is nice. But, when dealing with the VA you are dealing with a Federal institution. When you step onto VA property, the only "state" that you are in is the United States, and you are, the minute you drive off the city street and into the VA parking lot, dealing with Federal rules and regs. Heck, the doctor's don't even have to be licensed in the state in which they practice, nor do the nurses.

And, I would not advise recording anything.

Have y'all seen the little signs as you stroll around the VA Hospital......something about recording devices and cameras and how ya ain't suppose to.

The notices ARE there. You may have to look for them, but they are there. Has something to do with HIPPA, also, and the fact that some people's presence and treatment at a medical facility are no one else's bidness.

just sayin'

[Pete53]

If I plan to record I am not warning them.

[WHOLESALE]

Like I stated before, if you do it don't tell anyone you did it.

Do it at your own risk.

Jay

Jay, your list is nice. But, when dealing with the VA you are dealing with a Federal institution. When you step onto VA property, the only "state" that you are in is the United States, and you are, the minute you drive off the city street and into the VA parking lot, dealing with Federal rules and regs. Heck, the doctor's don't even have to be licensed in the state in which they practice, nor do the nurses.

And, I would not advise recording anything.

Have y'all seen the little signs as you stroll around the VA Hospital......something about recording devices and cameras and how ya ain't suppose to.

The notices ARE there. You may have to look for them, but they are there. Has something to do with HIPPA, also, and the fact that some people's presence and treatment at a medical facility are no one else's bidness.

just sayin'

[*Bergie*]

If I plan to record I am not warning them.

It sure would be funny if a copy accidently turned up on U-Tube or your local congressmans office?

[halos2]

This topic is so relevant to the bs the va continues to put us vets through. I thought I would try out a new clinic, dr, nurse, staff...so I get the records and as I was reading them, I knew they could not be mine!! The patient must have been able to do cartwheels, and back flips with the written documentation.

So I go to the clinic, and highlight all the errors, and hand that into the staff, and low and behold... get the same ol same ol...write to the medical privacy officer with your issues...ha ha...didn't work before, its a fuc*ing shame these?professionals? are allowed to lie and screw us more. I feel sorry for those who do not get copies of their records and sit and wonder why their claim/claims have been denied!

SO I go in with pain c/o 8 and the ?nurse? writes 3...she writes she had me watch videos, gave me phamplets, checklists, diet sheets, on and on...when? In her dreams!!

I called her back on that and she said she would ammend the errors she wrote and send me a packet of the info she should have given me...we discussed what to write and the correct info to ammend...and to mail it all to me...

A vet goes in with 3 braces on even becomes very tearful during the exam and mentally has difficulty with explaining the facts, yet the documentation reveals, no problems, no complaints, vet says"feels very good today!" In what world?? WTF?? Now all my work for the last 5+ years is going down the drain because these dum fuc*s can't/won't write what was said!!

The fuc*ing liar bitch calls me back 10 minutes later and said her supervisor said she couldn't put the corrections in my file/chart! What you screw me, then tell me you will rectify it, and now tell me you will do nothing!! F U bitch!!!

I am going to tape everything I don't give a rat's ass...I am so sick and tired of seeking assistance and getting screwed by these idiots. So what will they do arrest me for protecting myself against their lying asses??

Why have I been on all these controlled pain meds, antidepressants, antihypertensive meds, and others, yet the chart signifys no meds taken at all by vet!! WTF??? Do I need to take them in front of them?? Want to check my mouth to see if I swallowed them??

I am so disgusted with all the bs at each and every clinic/hosp I go to. Yep tape recorder is going to be my trusty side kick!!

It is called MY freedom of hearing!! They don't listen to my freedom of speech so I will tape myself on what I say and on what I hear...after all I do have a hearing impairment and don't want to miss anything that is said to me!!

Forgot to post the dr read my xrays and commented that it looked like my spine was holding together with dental floss...where's the bones he said...but nothing written about it!

And how,how was your week folks? :angr

Edited June 19, 2009 by halos2 (see edit history)

[WHOLESALE]

Ah, I could sit here and bash bash bash but I know many examiners do the examinations correctly. It's the few that ruin it for the rest that try to do right.

Jay

This topic is so relevant to the bs the va continues to put us vets through. I thought I would try out a new clinic, dr, nurse, staff...so I get the records and as I was reading them, I knew they could not be mine!! The patient must have been able to do cartwheels, and back flips with the written documentation.

So I go to the clinic, and highlight all the errors, and hand that into the staff, and low and behold... get the same ol same ol...write to the medical privacy officer with your issues...ha ha...didn't work before, its a fuc*ing shame these?professionals? are allowed to lie and screw us more. I feel sorry for those who do not get copies of their records and sit and wonder why their claim/claims have been denied!

SO I go in with pain c/o 8 and the ?nurse? writes 3...she writes she had me watch videos, gave me phamplets, checklists, diet sheets, on and on...when? In her dreams!!

I called her back on that and she said she would ammend the errors she wrote and send me a packet of the info she should have given me...we discussed what to write and the correct info to ammend...and to mail it all to me...

A vet goes in with 3 braces on even becomes very tearful during the exam and mentally has difficulty with explaining the facts, yet the documentation reveals, no problems, no complaints, vet says"feels very good today!" In what world?? WTF?? Now all my work for the last 5+ years is going down the drain because these dum fuc*s can't/won't write what was said!!

The fuc*ing liar bitch calls me back 10 minutes later and said her supervisor said she couldn't put the corrections in my file/chart! What you screw me, then tell me you will rectify it, and now tell me you will do nothing!! F U bitch!!!

I am going to tape everything I don't give a rat's ass...I am so sick and tired of seeking assistance and getting screwed by these idiots. So what will they do arrest me for protecting myself against their lying asses??

Why have I been on all these controlled pain meds, antidepressants, antihypertensive meds, and others, yet the chart signifys no meds taken at all by vet!! WTF??? Do I need to take them in front of them?? Want to check my mouth to see if I swallowed them??

I am so disgusted with all the bs at each and every clinic/hosp I go to. Yep tape recorder is going to be my trusty side kick!!

It is called MY freedom of hearing!! They don't listen to my freedom of speech so I will tape myself on what I say and on what I hear...after all I do have a hearing impairment and don't want to miss anything that is said to me!!

Forgot to post the dr read my xrays and commented that it looked like my spine was holding together with dental floss...where's the bones he said...but nothing written about it!

And how,how was your week folks? :angr

[Pablo22]

I feel really bad for all of you who experience trouble with your examiners. I've been through the process 3 or 4 times and I can't say that I've come across any examiner who has lied or left anything out. My main frustration comes from the amount of time it takes the VA to help us. Good luck and I hope you get what you deserve!

[airborne18]

The VA is a federal facility and recording devices are prohibited... I know there is a sign on the door of my VA stating this.

[Pete53]

I had 4 Hearings at VARO and every one of them was recorded. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

[carlie]

I have posted something before from either 38 CFR or M-21-1MR

clearly stating a claimant is not allowed to record a c&p examination.

Maybe one of our research hounds can locate it and repost it for us.

This issue pops up about every 6 months.

carlie

[smilen66]

From:M21-1MR, Part III, Subpart iv, Chapter 3, Section A

1. General Information on Examination Requests, Continued

d. Description of Terms: General Medical Examination, Specialty Examination, and Specialist Examination (continued) Specialist Examination

A specialist examination is any examination that is conducted by a clinician who specializes in a particular field.

Notes:

• All vision, hearing, dental, and psychiatric examinations must be conducted by a specialist. On rare occasions, it may be necessary to request a specialist examination for other types of disabilities.

• When requesting a mental disorders examination, specify that if possible, the veteran’s treating mental health professional should not perform the examination.

Reference: For more information on specialist examinations, see M21-1MR, Part III, Subpart iv, 3.A.8.

e. When to Send the Claims Folder With an Examination Request Send the claims folders to examining facilities with the examination requests only in circumstances that may require claims folder review by the examiner.

In general, the claims folder should be sent for the examiner’s review in any case involving a

• request for a mental disorders examination

• request for a formal medical opinion, or

• Board of Veterans’ Appeals remand.

References: For more information on

• requests for medical opinions, see M21-1MR, Part III, Subpart iv, 3.A.9, and

• handling examinations in claims for service connection for PTSD, see M21-1MR, Part III, Subpart iv, 4.H.31.

f. Veteran’s Legal Rights A veteran has no legal right to

• be accompanied by counsel during an examination, or

• record an examination.

Continued on next page

[*Bergie*]

From:M21-1MR, Part III, Subpart iv, Chapter 3, Section A

1. General Information on Examination Requests, Continued

d. Description of Terms: General Medical Examination, Specialty Examination, and Specialist Examination (continued) Specialist Examination

A specialist examination is any examination that is conducted by a clinician who specializes in a particular field.

Notes:

• All vision, hearing, dental, and psychiatric examinations must be conducted by a specialist. On rare occasions, it may be necessary to request a specialist examination for other types of disabilities.

• When requesting a mental disorders examination, specify that if possible, the veteran's treating mental health professional should not perform the examination.

Reference: For more information on specialist examinations, see M21-1MR, Part III, Subpart iv, 3.A.8.

e. When to Send the Claims Folder With an Examination Request Send the claims folders to examining facilities with the examination requests only in circumstances that may require claims folder review by the examiner.

In general, the claims folder should be sent for the examiner's review in any case involving a

• request for a mental disorders examination

• request for a formal medical opinion, or

• Board of Veterans' Appeals remand.

References: For more information on

• requests for medical opinions, see M21-1MR, Part III, Subpart iv, 3.A.9, and

• handling examinations in claims for service connection for PTSD, see M21-1MR, Part III, Subpart iv, 4.H.31.

f. Veteran's Legal Rights A veteran has no legal right to

• be accompanied by counsel during an examination, or

• record an examination.

Continued on next page

Ok,

Than just don't mention the recorder or have your spouce do the recording when she accompanies you. That way you can claim she did it not the "veteran". It's kind of funny, seems like they have something they are trying to hide? LOL?

Bergie

[*Bergie*]

The VA is a federal facility and recording devices are prohibited... I know there is a sign on the door of my VA stating this.

Gee,

Does that include cell phones!!! :D

[jim n ok]

most c and p exams are done by qtc contractors ,off of va property and va rules do not count. record it if you want.there's no guards like at va hospital. it's a civilian facility...

Edited June 25, 2009 by jim n ok (see edit history)

[airborne18]

Jim,

In my area c&p's are done at the VA hosptial..

Making a recording is one thing, the recording being used to help a case is the impossible part. VA court is a federal court. State laws allowing a taped conversation without consent are meaningless and the VA court rules would apply...

[airborne18]

Ok,

Than just don't mention the recorder or have your spouce do the recording when she accompanies you. That way you can claim she did it not the "veteran". It's kind of funny, seems like they have something they are trying to hide? LOL?

Bergie

Yeah they do have something to hide.. patient privacy.

you have to realize that a compensation claim is a legal action. The VA is gathering evidence to decide a claim, just as the veteran is trying to gather evidence to support the claim.