ptsd Va Form 21-4192

[murph]

I was layed off because of a reduction in force from a large school district,I always

had excellent evaluations and was senior to the other employees who were not let go.

I am rated 70% ,30% ptsd ,20,20,10,10,10,10," the other % is DM11,combat wounds"

I just put in a claim for IHD secondary to agent orange, The DAV service officer told me to also put a claim in for Iu. I would like to know how va form 21-4192 works ,does the va send form to employer or send it to me to bring to employer.The reason i ask is being i worked for a large school district the form would go to HR department and they would not know me personally, I think it would be better if i brought form to my supervisor where i use to work and let my former supervisor fill out form and attach a letter with her observations of my disabilities.Should i download form 21-4192 and take

of it myself and send it in to va.

[broncovet]

Murph...

If you have been layed off due to a "RIF", that suggests that your company downsizing had everything to do with your layoff, and NOT your inability to do your job (IU).

However, I beleive that the VA recognizes that companies wont tell the truth. Do you think they will tell you that you are laid off due to SC disabilitities? Lawyers would druel over each other waiting in line to sue your employer if they stated that in writing.

I suggest you provide some specific incidents of how your disabilities kept you from doing your job, and how your company used "RIF" as an excuse while keeping on junior people without disabilities.

Maybe one of your coworkers can help you document it.

The other thing is to be unemployable, you have to not just be able to not do your present job, but you have to not be able to do other available jobs. One way you can show that is to go for the Voc Rehab, and ask them to get you a job for which you are suitable considering your disabilities, retraining you if necessary. If you are unable to maintain substantial ganifull employment in your new field either, only then would you be eligible for IU, IMHO. Others may disagree with me.

[sixthscents]

Murph,

I would also suggest that if you are concerned with what the HR department might say, then go to the source. Sometimes (not always I know) a person may have worked with other who are wlling to write a simple statement saying they were unable to perform their duties. I know a guy who retired, not because he wanted to, but because he had to due to his deteriorating physical condition. He made $30+ an hour in construction, but just couldn't do it. They tried to deny him because the HR department said he just retired... Yet a letter from his immediate supervisor along with letters from his spouse and other co-workers helped immensly.

You may not be able to obtain a letter from someone at work, but how about people in your community. Persons of stature such as: Pastors, Councilors, Fellow Police/Security, Goverment officials - local mayor etc. The idea are letter in support from people who are not unreasonably biased - the VA assumes (rightly so really) that family members are biased toward your claim. They still have to give them weight, but they weigh other sources like those above more heavily.

Further, you state your evaluations were good. Well I would get copies. If they were good up to the point you were let go, that could actually work against you unless you address the issue in your claim. The VA could say that since you had such great evals, you were clearly ABLE to perform the job. I would again, use unbiased submissions, and make your point immediatly in your claim that even though you had such great evals you were let go, thus defusing the argument before the VA can use it. I know the logic here is a bit convoluted but you have to think in legal terms... Honestly, I have had claims EXACTLY like this, and if you just tell your employer that you are filing a VA claim sometimes they will bend enough to provide a letter stating that you were released do to inability to perform essential tasks. They worry about unemployment claims, and comp claims. If you make it clear you are NOT filing these (which if you are unemployable you are NOT eligable to collect unemployment) sometimes they will be reasonable. Of course if you intend to file a comp claim, I wouldn't advise this... however that does not seem to be the case.

You are filing a claim for worsening of conditions, as well as the other new. I would certainly file for an increase in compensation if in fact you are suffering from a worsening of these service connected issues. Anyway, best of luck.

Bob Smith

[sixthscents]

Oh, also unemployment laws vary, so I would look into the "inability to perform gainful work" issue before bringing it up. I know in Tennessee if you are truely unemployable, you don't qualify for unemployment (I know it doesn't make sense, but they figure if you are unemployable do to physical disablity you should file for social security)

Also if you are unemployable - then you could qualify for social security disability. This is both a judgement call on your part and the medical side. If you truely feel that due to your physical condition you will not be able to perform gainful employment.. well thats what SSD is for. Just a thought.

Bob Smith

[murph]

Murph,

I would also suggest that if you are concerned with what the HR department might say, then go to the source. Sometimes (not always I know) a person may have worked with other who are wlling to write a simple statement saying they were unable to perform their duties. I know a guy who retired, not because he wanted to, but because he had to due to his deteriorating physical condition. He made $30+ an hour in construction, but just couldn't do it. They tried to deny him because the HR department said he just retired... Yet a letter from his immediate supervisor along with letters from his spouse and other co-workers helped immensly.

You may not be able to obtain a letter from someone at work, but how about people in your community. Persons of stature such as: Pastors, Councilors, Fellow Police/Security, Goverment officials - local mayor etc. The idea are letter in support from people who are not unreasonably biased - the VA assumes (rightly so really) that family members are biased toward your claim. They still have to give them weight, but they weigh other sources like those above more heavily.

Further, you state your evaluations were good. Well I would get copies. If they were good up to the point you were let go, that could actually work against you unless you address the issue in your claim. The VA could say that since you had such great evals, you were clearly ABLE to perform the job. I would again, use unbiased submissions, and make your point immediatly in your claim that even though you had such great evals you were let go, thus defusing the argument before the VA can use it. I know the logic here is a bit convoluted but you have to think in legal terms... Honestly, I have had claims EXACTLY like this, and if you just tell your employer that you are filing a VA claim sometimes they will bend enough to provide a letter stating that you were released do to inability to perform essential tasks. They worry about unemployment claims, and comp claims. If you make it clear you are NOT filing these (which if you are unemployable you are NOT eligable to collect unemployment) sometimes they will be reasonable. Of course if you intend to file a comp claim, I wouldn't advise this... however that does not seem to be the case.

You are filing a claim for worsening of conditions, as well as the other new. I would certainly file for an increase in compensation if in fact you are suffering from a worsening of these service connected issues. Anyway, best of luck.

Bob Smith

[murph]

Thanks for the great advise,When i was let go i still wanted to work I applied for another job with old employer "same position" and i was not rehired I collect unemployment and cannot get a job.After talking to DAV service officer he stated that i should put in for iu. My wife and friends kept telling me to retire because of my health ,I have always worked since a teen and i didn't want to believe i couldn't do it

any more. My doctors would alway question me about working and i say i"m doing alright.

Being let go was probably the "KICK IN THE BUTT" i needed to finally let go and face my limitations which is hard to do.I know my past action will probably hurt my claim for IU but i just wanted to work.

I believe my former supervisor will write a letter which should help.

[sixthscents]

Murph,

We understand.. we really do man. It has been 7 years since I was medicaled out, and I am still adjusting. I am 42 for crying out loud. I have worked all my life since I was 13 - I like to work - I MISS work, and the military. Yet, acceptance comes eventually... It is a bitter bitter pill though huh? All I can say is good luck, love your family, and let them be there for you. Don't shut yourself off, which I fell into. Find something which allows you to still connect - like this maybe. Thats how I got into advocacy and helping others with their claims. Don't say you dont know enough either, cause you found us and can learn... not that this is the only option.

If you need any help or want to talk, IM me and I'll give ya my phone number and email. It can be tough buddy, I know, but we are all survivors here or would have never served.

Bob Smith