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Denied For Ptsd In 1984


winkjo

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Whoops...VARO May Have Done Me a Great Favor!

While continuing to deny my PTSD 100% or TDIU, the RO reminded me several months past that they denied my claim for PTSD in 2006 and in 1984 !!! Well, I literally had let it slip away that VA had actually DENIED "this newer condition called PTSD" way back in '84. I was too boot to the system back then to appeal the claim. Their mishandling of we Nam vets (and other veterans) back then SUCKED big time! It was brutal trajedy the way they screwd over all of us---still is today!

Frustrated by the B. S. I filed bankruptsy and went back to work (walking off jobs or getting fired) up until 2003. Quit my own small business and filed for DIB, claiming PTSD, DM-II + PN, etc. Fought another tough one vs Soc Sec but won netting DIB and a statement from SS ALJ awarding disability due to "severe PTSD" (and physical med issues) as reason for my inability to work gainfully.

A recent PTSD C&P exam netted all that any of us would pray for including inability to sustain gainful employment, prospects of improvement "poor"...nexus between combat exposure and PTSD, etc. Here, my friends of this forum, is where I need your feedback, comments and suggestions: Though I was too uniformed in 1984 to file an appeal vs denial for PTSD , what say you regarding my chances (currently close to RO decision on PTSD case) of an EED retro 1984??? Maybe not pie-in-the-sky??? Would like to hear from ALL !

Thank you & Semper Fi

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Whoops...VARO May Have Done Me a Great Favor!

While continuing to deny my PTSD 100% or TDIU, the RO reminded me several months past that they denied my claim for PTSD in 2006 and in 1984 !!! Well, I literally had let it slip away that VA had actually DENIED "this newer condition called PTSD" way back in '84. I was too boot to the system back then to appeal the claim. Their mishandling of we Nam vets (and other veterans) back then SUCKED big time! It was brutal trajedy the way they screwd over all of us---still is today!

Frustrated by the B. S. I filed bankruptsy and went back to work (walking off jobs or getting fired) up until 2003. Quit my own small business and filed for DIB, claiming PTSD, DM-II + PN, etc. Fought another tough one vs Soc Sec but won netting DIB and a statement from SS ALJ awarding disability due to "severe PTSD" (and physical med issues) as reason for my inability to work gainfully.

A recent PTSD C&P exam netted all that any of us would pray for including inability to sustain gainful employment, prospects of improvement "poor"...nexus between combat exposure and PTSD, etc. Here, my friends of this forum, is where I need your feedback, comments and suggestions: Though I was too uniformed in 1984 to file an appeal vs denial for PTSD , what say you regarding my chances (currently close to RO decision on PTSD case) of an EED retro 1984??? Maybe not pie-in-the-sky??? Would like to hear from ALL !

Thank you & Semper Fi

For an EED you will have to show a connection between your symptoms then and now. If you can do this than yes you could win an EED.

JMO,

Bergie

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Hey Bergie

Appreciate your coming in on this one. At this point am beginning to look back at work problems in 1984-85, having been, once again, not able to hold a job without anguish and poor interaction with others. Can prove a bankruptcy which I filed for in '84, finalized in 1985. I recall being hit real hard by depression, fear and hiding from the world.

So, took my problems for the first time to the VA mental health people, complaining of these painful feelings and events. I asked for some form of group therapy with other combat veterans like myself, but it turned out like it did for so many of us back then. They just told me (like others) that I was bi-polar and nearly killed me on Lithium. I've seen IMO docs, VA docs and clinicians re: PTSD, yet have never been found to have a bi-polar illness in all the years since 1984 or 85. They just wanted in the dark ages to build a bunch of zombies and screw us out of benefits.

I feel that, since I have an opportunity to retro to 2003 fairly soon re: PTSD 100%, I may just handle that first and then dust off the '84 crap and attempt to retro back. Most vets out there would probably disagree with that plan!

Well, thanks once again my friend... hope all is going nicely for you and yours... come on back if you wish -

Semper Fi

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I worked in a Vet Center in 1984 and they were still new at diagnosing and treating PTSD.

Did the VA ever try to verify your stressor?

What was the exact wording of the denial in 2006?

Your recent C & P sounds like it is Very supportive of the claim.

The only thing that could be lacking is proof of the stressor.

Do you have CIB, CAR, or PH on your DD214?

When the award is made (which should be made if the stressor can be verified) then you have established a basis that would lead to filing a CUE claim on the oldest decision in which they denied you.

You would need to prove legal errors made at that time.

What diagnostic code did they give you then for the disability that the VA recognizes now as PTSD? Whatever DC they stated in the older denial would be a clear and unmistakable error as it was not for PTSD and you have a PTSD diagnosis.

Have you also formally claimed the DMII and PN etc?

Edited by Berta
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Philip

The thoughts are appreciated. Sorry I am not too sharp this early AM...can't sleep, as usual. But, if you have a minute, could you expand on "substitute completely for totally". I have a slight idea, but need clarification on your suggestion here.

Thank You

Semper Fi

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Berta

May have opened a can of worms on this possibility of 1984 EED, but can see the justice in chasing the VA. I can give you info on a few of your posted questions, but will have to go out back to storage on a lot of this data--it's been a long time, Berta! Questions re: the diagnostic code, verification (proof) of stressor and exact wording of 2006 denial SHOULD be in stored files out back. Got a copy of my C-File in 06, but can only hope the data will answer these critical questions you kindly posed. Can only hope the files are complete enough!

In the meantime, yes--I am rated for DM-II, PN since 06. My medals include Viet Nam Service and Campaign Medals, Armed Forces Expeditionary Medal and National Defence Service Medal. I'm wondering if I can get another, more complete copy of

my C-File--can you only get one free copy within a handful of years apart?

I'll do some digging out back and get with you on these questions, Berta. Thanks, once again -

Semper Fi

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Here, my friends of this forum, is where I need your feedback, comments and suggestions: Though I was too uniformed in 1984 to file an appeal vs denial for PTSD , what say you regarding my chances (currently close to RO decision on PTSD case) of an EED retro 1984??? Maybe not pie-in-the-sky??? Would like to hear from ALL !

Thank you & Semper Fi

winkjo,

As I'm sure you already know there isn't a way to argue for an effective date prior to

the disability being granted, as service connected.

The only ways I can see getting an effective date of 1984 is by:

1) locating SMR/STR's that were not of record at the time the 1984 decision was made, OR,

2) filing and winning a claim of CUE on the 1984 Rating Decision.

Remember the only evidence that can be considered on a CUE was the evidence

that was available at the time the CUE was made.

Evidence generated after the 1984 rating decision will not be considered in the CUE claim.

Hope this helps a vet.

jmho,

carlie

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Just a thought, but if you found yourself an attorney to handle this for you, there's enough retro that 20% of it would make it worth his or her while to help you.

This sounds like a major project, and considering we're talking about PTSD, it may be wise for you to try to get some professional legal help with this.

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Hey Winkjo,

My husband had the same thing happen, he applied in 1980 for PTSD and was one of the first NAM vets diagnosed with it., but was denied. He reapplied in 1988 when he had a heart attack at 39 (IHD) and was denied again. He reapplied in 1996 and was granted 100% no retro. He appealed the effective Date and got it taken back to 1992, he then appealed again and got it taken back to 1988, the last time he was gainfully employed (no one workplace could ensure him after a x5 bypass). The last date of employment is as far back as they would go because he was able to work up until then and therefore was not 100% PTSD, or so says VA rationale. After 15 years and lots of appeals he just settled for 1988 as the EED.

Good luck though, I hope you get you EED and retro!

Edited by hawkfire27
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The C file- they should not charge you for what is in there since your last free copy-

but they might charge you and re copy the whole thing again.

Reminds me that I sent them a check for an additional C fle copy to get the new stuff and have another copy of the old stuff. I then realized this would hold up my claim and withdrew my request.

Iris said they would send the check back-I never got it back-

Even of they charge you -it might well be a good investment in seeing what else they have in their.

Do you have copies of all of your VA med recs too? They are kept separately from the C file.

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  • HadIt.com Elder

A Veteran can always view their C File at the VARO and ask for copies of crucial documents.

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Just a thought, but if you found yourself an attorney to handle this for you, there's enough retro that 20% of it would make it worth his or her while to help you.

This sounds like a major project, and considering we're talking about PTSD, it may be wise for you to try to get some professional legal help with this.

I agree on the attorney suggestion and just last week got name and phone of legal beagle from a buddy. Currently have a sure thing on an EED retro 05 if they do PTSD and 4 years if they do TDIU in the next (DAV SO projected) few weeks. My SO called 2 days ago to let me know that DRO is currently near decision, but thinks they are leaning toward TDIU over PTSD. So, I'm at a stand still awaiting the imminent decision, my friend. Thanks for your input.

Winkjo

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I agree on the attorney suggestion and just last week got name and phone of legal beagle from a buddy. Currently have a sure thing on an EED retro 05 if they do PTSD and 4 years if they do TDIU in the next (DAV SO projected) few weeks. My SO called 2 days ago to let me know that DRO is currently near decision, but thinks they are leaning toward TDIU over PTSD. So, I'm at a stand still awaiting the imminent decision, my friend. Thanks for your input.

Winkjo

The quest for the good lawyer. My cousin in Upstate New York is searching for one, and my husband here is starting to talk about getting one too, to help with his NOD.

Where, oh where, do you find the good lawyers?

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The quest for the good lawyer. My cousin in Upstate New York is searching for one, and my husband here is starting to talk about getting one too, to help with his NOD.

Where, oh where, do you find the good lawyers?

Where in the appeal process are you -- RO initial denial, DRO decision denial (still at the RO), the Board of Veterans Appeals, or the Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims?

It makes a difference because it's normally more of a challenge to find a good vet attorney until the appeal reaches the Court, due to the probability of the attorneys receiving payment without a hassle (less of a chance of not getting paid for their work). That said, Berta has always suggested the vet do a search of Court decisions at the Court website to research the lawyers who have won cases (a remand) for their clients.

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The quest for the good lawyer. My cousin in Upstate New York is searching for one, and my husband here is starting to talk about getting one too, to help with his NOD.

Where, oh where, do you find the good lawyers?

Hey Hedgey

Sorry I didnt get back to you sooner...been ill with bronchitis, flu and so on. The attorney that I mentioned has not been proven yet to me because I have not used him here in Arizona. I only plan to use him if my current DRO appeal does not bring acceptable results...either 100% PTSD or TDIU. I have not gotten any positive or negative reports on the attorney my comrade has, so I must refrain at this point to suggest him to anyone. I was almost burned back in 2005 by a Soc Sec attorney, but I wouldn't agree to the "deal" that he wanted me to accept from Social Security. So, thank goodness, he told me he would no longer represent me against the SS. I said "fine", went to my congressman (who could not interfere with the Soc Sec Law Judge's decision, but DID influence the end of a 2-year fight with Soc Sec, a decison fully in my favor for Disabilty Insurance Benefits and several thousand in backpay! There are pros and cons about using a congressman to basically oversee what is happening with a Soc Security or VA fight, but I WILL recommed connecting with a congressman now that the gov has passed legislation in OUR favor for a change! Could help end a longer fight for justice and peace of mind.

Hope this helps you and yours...best of luck, good folks.

Semper Fi

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  • HadIt.com Elder

a group of veteran lawyers can be found thru this website they specialize in veterans law they have quarterly training sessions and call and e mail each other all of the time I have no problem recommending them one of them took my case pro bono in June 2007 and in less than 2 years I had won a case every SO from every veterans group had told me that there was no chance I could win

the lawyer was excellent and I would have happily paid the 20% but they refused to take it citing it would NOT be ethical

http://www.vetadvocates.com/

I learned about them thru the VA watchdog sight run by Larry Scott Ken Carpenter is one of their members and helps many of them when asked for advice I trust them a lot more than I do any SO from any of the VSO's or state agencies

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I am a Navy Vietnam Veteran here. After 3 failed attempts at marriage, 2 failed businesses, and other problems I filed for PTSD in 1992 on my own and of course DENIED. My current VA primary doc referred me to the CBOC clinic shrink and after 4 one hour sessions diagnosed me with PTSD. (2-1/2 yrs ago). I completed the cognitive behavior classes and attend the monthly group. I decided to see my state vets rep and filed for PTSD and was awarded 30% retro to August 2009 after 60 days from getting my exam by the VA contracted doc. My GAF score was 50. I saw an independent psychologist every week since then for 1 on 1 sessions. He has given me a GAF score of 37-39. I filed for a reconsideration this past December 2009, got a second VA contracted doctor exam in February. I have yet to hear back from the VA on my request for reconsideration where I included 3 progress letters from my independent psychologist all stating my GAF score and that I am "totally unemployable and that it may last my entire life". I included letters from the VA and from my state department of labor stating that they are refusing VocRehab because of the nature and extreme of my disability. All of this evidence was also provided to Social Security Disability. I was awarded my SSDI in April, 2010, but have yet to hear back from the VA. My 1 year clock is winding down. Any advice from the elders here or anyone with a similar situation would be appreciated. Please feel free to PM me.

Thank you all for your service and for your concern for our country and fellow vets.

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Hey jc30655,

I posted earlier in this thread. My husband was in a similar position as you and winkjo. What did it was the "gainful employment" part of the Mental Disability regs. He could show that he could not maintain gainful employment from the first claim date right up through the 100% ratings date. He requested a DRO hearing at the same time he submitted his reconsideration. It is during this hearing that he made his case for an EED. He was granted back to 1988 which is when his last gainful employment ended.

Without that DRO hearing he would probably still be running around the VA treadmill trying to get someone to stop and take a look at the evidence. Besides, DRO hearings give you the opportunity to state your claim to a human being that has to stop and actually listen to you. Could be worth a try.

I am a Navy Vietnam Veteran here. After 3 failed attempts at marriage, 2 failed businesses, and other problems I filed for PTSD in 1992 on my own and of course DENIED. My current VA primary doc referred me to the CBOC clinic shrink and after 4 one hour sessions diagnosed me with PTSD. (2-1/2 yrs ago). I completed the cognitive behavior classes and attend the monthly group. I decided to see my state vets rep and filed for PTSD and was awarded 30% retro to August 2009 after 60 days from getting my exam by the VA contracted doc. My GAF score was 50. I saw an independent psychologist every week since then for 1 on 1 sessions. He has given me a GAF score of 37-39. I filed for a reconsideration this past December 2009, got a second VA contracted doctor exam in February. I have yet to hear back from the VA on my request for reconsideration where I included 3 progress letters from my independent psychologist all stating my GAF score and that I am "totally unemployable and that it may last my entire life". I included letters from the VA and from my state department of labor stating that they are refusing VocRehab because of the nature and extreme of my disability. All of this evidence was also provided to Social Security Disability. I was awarded my SSDI in April, 2010, but have yet to hear back from the VA. My 1 year clock is winding down. Any advice from the elders here or anyone with a similar situation would be appreciated. Please feel free to PM me.

Thank you all for your service and for your concern for our country and fellow vets.

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I was awarded my SSDI in April, 2010, but have yet to hear back from the VA. My 1 year clock is winding down."

Does VA know of the SSA award and have they asked ypou to authorize them to get the SSA records?

Do you have copies of and proof of mailing of everything you have sent to them?

I dont quite understand the one year part- have you formally disagreed with the 30 % decision or asked them to reconsider it? and they arent acting on the reconsideration request?

Have you sent them an IRIS inquiry as to the status of this claim?

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Hello Berta and hawkfire27.

Yes, the VA knows of my award from the SSA for disability. I live in Georgia and we have State Service Officers which submit our claims in behalf of other advocacy groups such as AMVETS, American Legion, DAV, etc. The day I got my letter from the SSA granting my SS Disability I went to my VSO and insured that he send this to the VA. I was in his office a week later and he showed me where the VA had received it. I kept the original. I have not officially filed a NOD, my VSO said that filing for reconsideration was quicker and that since my claim was impeccable in detail, with the IMO psychologist, the only thing negative may be the opinion of the VA's outside contract doctor. (My limited understanding of the Hindi language may have been a barrier, however).

I am not familiar with an IRIS inquiry though. I live pretty far away from a regional office or VA Hospital where I can get verified so I have not had opportunity to finish getting Ebenefits set up as of this date.

Hawkfire, are you saying that your reconsideration was turned down but you got a hearing with a DRO instead?

Thanks, yall, for your input.

John

Hello Berta and hawkfire27.

Yes, the VA knows of my award from the SSA for disability. I live in Georgia and we have State Service Officers which submit our claims in behalf of other advocacy groups such as AMVETS, American Legion, DAV, etc. The day I got my letter from the SSA granting my SS Disability I went to my VSO and insured that he send this to the VA. I was in his office a week later and he showed me where the VA had received it. I kept the original. I have not officially filed a NOD, my VSO said that filing for reconsideration was quicker and that since my claim was impeccable in detail, with the IMO psychologist, the only thing negative may be the opinion of the VA's outside contract doctor. (My limited understanding of the Hindi language may have been a barrier, however).

I am not familiar with an IRIS inquiry though. I live pretty far away from a regional office or VA Hospital where I can get verified so I have not had opportunity to finish getting Ebenefits set up as of this date.

Hawkfire, are you saying that your reconsideration was turned down but you got a hearing with a DRO instead?

Thanks, yall, for your input.

John

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