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Getting Data For A Ptsd Claim - Requesting Comments

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autumn

Question

my question is at the bottom after the background info. sorry, i know its long. this uphill VA battle is like a broken record, hope you understand

[a little background]

active duty 1986:

-back injury

-surgery scheduled

-LP#1 shows CSF infection

-surgery canceled

-neuro issues start

-sent to shrink for neuro issues

-LP#2 shows evidence of MS + csf infection

-LP#3 shows evidence of MS & CSF infection going down

-still seeing shrink for neuro issues

-navy neuro writes LP tests/MS were false neg

-hon-med discharged: 20% HNP lower back, 10% major depression secondary to chronic pain

civilian 1987:

-in VA system

-divorce

-end up on the street, less than a year

-drinking increases

-try to quit medicines and drinking, 2 suicide attempts then

-many times asked the VA to redo the Navy LP tests to rule out MS

-still having those weird neuro exacerbations, though no diagnosis for it

-VA lists me as major depressed, depressed with psychotic-tendencies, bi-polar, and a few other weird labels

-i believed the VA diagnosis versus what my body was/is telling me

-i start to think i'm really nuts, and really start to withdraw, little trust in most people

-stopped drinking in 1990

-neuro relapses getting more frequent and lasting longer

-severe hearing loss with ringing in ears. VA gives me hearing aids

-VA still denies MS, won't adequately test for it, puts blame on everything but a neuro disease: i.e., drinking, smoking, mini-strokes maybe, migraines, and all those weird MH labels, etc

-move to different city, and VA reluctantly agrees to MRI for MS: if something shows, they'll do a LP

-MRIs return "dawsons fingers, demyelinating disease in brain", LP positive for MS

-start getting IMO's from board cert'd MS neuros and neurosurgeons. all return assessment with MS

-VA finally agrees to ABC drug, but only after IMO reports, though the VA discounted all IMO's

-attend VA anger management classes due to i can't really handle all this any more

-get scared and angry just going to the VA.

-MRIs a year later show new lesions on spine from IMO requested MRIs. VA discounted those

-filed appeals claim for MS, had C&P for MS, waiting on decision

-SSDI awarded for MS, etc. tried working but i just can't hang (pain & irritability)

-now the VA says there is no evidence of bi-polar or psycho whatever. symptoms likely due to demyelinating disease. i told them that for 23+ years!

-no doubt i'm depressed/anxietied in some way, at the least due to MS symptoms, etc

-no doubt i'm anxietied in some way, at the least due to mis-diagnosis/labeled over the years from VA med care

just looking for a little practical guidance regarding a ptsd claim or maybe a MH claim. the above is all documented in mil med records and va med records and IMO med records.

i looked at tbird's link, "Ptsd - Check This Before Posting Your Question It May Have Already Been Answered!" and i think i meet a stressor or two that is acceptable to VA?

i don't know, i put it out here to seek some answers. i sure can't get any from the VA that i can wrap my head around.

question:

i feel like i have some form of ptsd, though non-combat related. i want to file a claim for ptsd. with the above history, is that what i should file for?

tia,

autumnleaves

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Borrowed from else where,

"DEFINITIONS01-06. American Psychiatric Definition. The following is a quote, references to children excluded, from The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition (DSM-IV), Washington, DC, American Psychiatric Association, 1994, section 309.81, beginning on page 427. All supplemental information, in parenthesis and bold, is from The Post-Traumatic Gazette, edited by Mrs. Patience Mason:

This disorder is described as occurring when:

"A. The person has been exposed to a traumatic event in which both of the following were present:

(1) the person experienced, witnessed, or was confronted with an event or events that involved actual or threatened death or serious injury, or a threat to the physical integrity of self (i.e. combat, friendly fire, being mortared or rocketed, wounded, captured, driving a truck on a mined road, flying in a helicopter that was shot at, jumping our of a helicopter into a hot LT) or others (if you had a buddy who was wounded or lost squad members, family member, or seeing anyone who has recently been killed or injured such as being a medic or nurse on a trauma ward, body bagging, seeing someone you didn’t know killed, seeing kids, women or other Americans or civilians who had been killed, or wounded, etc.)

(2) the person's response involved intense fear, helplessness or horror."

According to the DSM-IV, " B. The traumatic event is persistently reexperinced in one (or more) of the following ways:

(1) recurrent and intrusive distressing recollections of the event, including images, thoughts, or perceptions.

(2) recurrent distressing dreams of the event.

(3) acting or feeling as if the traumatic event were recurring (includes a sense of reliving the experience, illusions, hallucinations, and dissociative flashback episodes, including those that occur on awakening or when intoxicated).

(4) intense psychological distress at exposure to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event

(5) physiological reactivity on exposure to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event

C. Persistent avoidance of stimuli associated with the trauma and numbing of general responsiveness (not present before the trauma), as indicated by at least three (or more) of the following:

(1) efforts to avoid thoughts, feelings or conversations associated with the trauma (If you try not to think about the war or if you try not to feel love because you lost a beloved buddy, try never to feel guilt because you think you fucked up over there, try never to be happy because you were ambushed when you were feeling fine, trying never to get angry because you’re afraid of what you might do)

(2) efforts to avoid activities, places, or people that arouse recollections of the trauma (never watch war movies, don’t hunt, don’t go to veterans day parades or associate with other vets, can’t stand authority figures because of the REMF’s or the lifers, etc.)

(3) inability to recall an important aspect of the trauma (particular battles or periods of time that you can’t remember or whether those guys were killed or just wounded)

(4) markedly diminished interest or participation in significant activities (what did you used to do that you don’t since your PTSD came on? Lots of guys with PTSD stay home watching TV which is this symptom. Others still get out but they’ve given up hunting, or going places where there are crowds or whatever)

(5) feelings of detachment or estrangement from others (No one can understand what it’s like. I’m on the outside looking in at all these people who haven’t a clue. I don’t care about things or people the way I used to)

(6) restricted range of affect (e.g., unable to have loving feelings) (unable to cry when parent dies or kid dies, told you have no feelings, can’t feel love for wife, etc.)

(7) sense of a foreshortened future (e.g., does not expect to have a career, marriage, children, or even a long life span)." (may be still driving drunk or stoned, still jumping out of airplanes or taking other risks, afraid to commit to anyone or anything, etc.)

The Diagnostic criteria in section 309.81, DSM-IV, goes on the state:

"D. Persistent symptoms of increased arousal (not present before the trauma), as

indicated by two (or more) of the following:

(1) difficulty falling or staying asleep;

(2) irritability or outbursts of anger;

(3) difficulty concentrating (Read a page and can’t remember it? Forget what your wife just told you or constantly hear "I told you that yesterday!" Feel dumb because you don’t follow a lot of conversations, etc., or just can’t focus because part of you is scanning for danger all the time?)

(4) hypervigilance (always looking for danger, worrying about people getting hurt, still looking for tripwires and sitting with your back to the wall, avoiding crowds, etc.)

(5) exaggerated startle response (hit the dirt at the sound of a backfire, can’t be touched when asleep, etc.)

E. Duration of the disturbance (symptoms in Criteria B, C, and D) is more than 1 month.

F. The disturbance causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning."

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i can honestly relate and live some of those items listed, except for #1. though for #1, i've even seen & experienced some those items, though not in a combat zone.

#1 seems to me, to be wholely limited to a war zone like scenario, which for me, i wasn't in a combat zone.

from that i gather one has to have been in a combat zone to qual for VA PTSD ?

unless, "serious injury, or a threat to the physical integrity of self ...", could be applied to my particular situation

something is causing a myriad of mental anguishes that started in 1986 and continue to this day, that is all know.

thanks for the info, really appreciate it

Borrowed from else where,

"DEFINITIONS01-06. American Psychiatric Definition. The following is a quote, references to children excluded, from The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition (DSM-IV), Washington, DC, American Psychiatric Association, 1994, section 309.81, beginning on page 427. All supplemental information, in parenthesis and bold, is from The Post-Traumatic Gazette, edited by Mrs. Patience Mason:

This disorder is described as occurring when:

"A. The person has been exposed to a traumatic event in which both of the following were present:

(1) the person experienced, witnessed, or was confronted with an event or events that involved actual or threatened death or serious injury, or a threat to the physical integrity of self (i.e. combat, friendly fire, being mortared or rocketed, wounded, captured, driving a truck on a mined road, flying in a helicopter that was shot at, jumping our of a helicopter into a hot LT) or others (if you had a buddy who was wounded or lost squad members, family member, or seeing anyone who has recently been killed or injured such as being a medic or nurse on a trauma ward, body bagging, seeing someone you didn't know killed, seeing kids, women or other Americans or civilians who had been killed, or wounded, etc.)

(2) the person's response involved intense fear, helplessness or horror."

According to the DSM-IV, " B. The traumatic event is persistently reexperinced in one (or more) of the following ways:

(1) recurrent and intrusive distressing recollections of the event, including images, thoughts, or perceptions.

(2) recurrent distressing dreams of the event.

(3) acting or feeling as if the traumatic event were recurring (includes a sense of reliving the experience, illusions, hallucinations, and dissociative flashback episodes, including those that occur on awakening or when intoxicated).

(4) intense psychological distress at exposure to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event

(5) physiological reactivity on exposure to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event

C. Persistent avoidance of stimuli associated with the trauma and numbing of general responsiveness (not present before the trauma), as indicated by at least three (or more) of the following:

(1) efforts to avoid thoughts, feelings or conversations associated with the trauma (If you try not to think about the war or if you try not to feel love because you lost a beloved buddy, try never to feel guilt because you think you xxxxxx up over there, try never to be happy because you were ambushed when you were feeling fine, trying never to get angry because you're afraid of what you might do)

(2) efforts to avoid activities, places, or people that arouse recollections of the trauma (never watch war movies, don't hunt, don't go to veterans day parades or associate with other vets, can't stand authority figures because of the REMF's or the lifers, etc.)

(3) inability to recall an important aspect of the trauma (particular battles or periods of time that you can't remember or whether those guys were killed or just wounded)

(4) markedly diminished interest or participation in significant activities (what did you used to do that you don't since your PTSD came on? Lots of guys with PTSD stay home watching TV which is this symptom. Others still get out but they've given up hunting, or going places where there are crowds or whatever)

(5) feelings of detachment or estrangement from others (No one can understand what it's like. I'm on the outside looking in at all these people who haven't a clue. I don't care about things or people the way I used to)

(6) restricted range of affect (e.g., unable to have loving feelings) (unable to cry when parent dies or kid dies, told you have no feelings, can't feel love for wife, etc.)

(7) sense of a foreshortened future (e.g., does not expect to have a career, marriage, children, or even a long life span)." (may be still driving drunk or stoned, still jumping out of airplanes or taking other risks, afraid to commit to anyone or anything, etc.)

The Diagnostic criteria in section 309.81, DSM-IV, goes on the state:

"D. Persistent symptoms of increased arousal (not present before the trauma), as

indicated by two (or more) of the following:

(1) difficulty falling or staying asleep;

(2) irritability or outbursts of anger;

(3) difficulty concentrating (Read a page and can't remember it? Forget what your wife just told you or constantly hear "I told you that yesterday!" Feel dumb because you don't follow a lot of conversations, etc., or just can't focus because part of you is scanning for danger all the time?)

(4) hypervigilance (always looking for danger, worrying about people getting hurt, still looking for tripwires and sitting with your back to the wall, avoiding crowds, etc.)

(5) exaggerated startle response (hit the dirt at the sound of a backfire, can't be touched when asleep, etc.)

E. Duration of the disturbance (symptoms in Criteria B, C, and D) is more than 1 month.

F. The disturbance causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning."

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from that i gather one has to have been in a combat zone to qual for VA PTSD ?

unless, "serious injury, or a threat to the physical integrity of self ...", could be applied to my particular situation

something is causing a myriad of mental anguishes that started in 1986 and continue to this day, that is all know.

thanks for the info, really appreciate it

autum,

No, PTSD is not limited to those that were in a combat zone.

It results from :

the person experienced, witnessed, or was confronted with an event or events that involved actual or threatened death or serious injury,

or a threat to the physical integrity of self.

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for me it may not be ptsd. i was just thinking it might be. could be the "red flu from mars" for all i know.

what i do know is it has taken 24 years to get the VA to finally recognize the correct neurological disease i've had for 24 years and to quit being wishy/washy about it and denying it. i never have been able to wrap my head around how one gets medically treated correctly when having an incorrect diagnosis or when a doctor won't call it for what it is.

and it is the same with my mental anquish over all this and the odd ups/downs over the years dealing with this. now the VA MH dept just keeps telling me to "let it go", "move on", etc, when i bring up this issue. i feel that isn't diagnosing my MH issues correctly thus not treating it adequately. that is the same as they did with denying i had a neurological disease for years. just that in itself, triggers tapes in my head that are frustrating at the least and way too much anger on my shoulders that i want to carry around...but its there.

so if isn't ptsd, that is fine. but it is something. and it needs a correct diagnosis thus treatment. if it is honestly "claimable" then i would want that too. that is kinda all i was trying to say. expressing myself doesn't come naturally as it once did and i get tripped up thinking about all this.

thanks for the clarification.

the post and replies have been helpful, thanks.

autum,

No, PTSD is not limited to those that were in a combat zone.

It results from :

the person experienced, witnessed, or was confronted with an event or events that involved actual or threatened death or serious injury,

or a threat to the physical integrity of self.

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hey Berta & halos2,

i answered your questions, if ya have any advice let me know. if not, no big deal, appreciate the time & help.

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">Can you scan and post here the reasons and bases they used to discount the IMOS? (cover the personal stuff)"

"no, because neither the neuro or shrink or social worker wrote anything in my records that i had showed them those reports. all i have to show for that is fax receipts that i faxed them to each of them."

I meant what has the VARO stated regarding these IMOs in any SOC they sent to you?

Have you or your vet rep presented them to the VARO in support of your claim as evidence? Or were they sent in to the VARO after you got the SOC?

Edited by Berta
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