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I Would Not Fell Better Giving Up My Claim


Hoppy

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  • HadIt.com Elder

I do not see the relationship between seeking compensation from the VA and the need to free oneself from the dependence of the govt. This thought contradicts the entire purpose of compensation. An individual can get compensation and work at the same time. I know several people who have plenty of money to support themselves and still pursue their VA compensation.

If you want to have wars or make widgets you better have enough money in the budget to pay your employees and warriors a salary that will allow them to get medical insurance that covers them that while doing their job or pay for it from your own budget. This is the law of our great land. People who want to circumvent this law will find themselves standing in front of a judge. Insurance investigators bust these guys all the time.

This proposal that one should free themselves from dependence on the govt. sounds similar to the type of guilt trip laid on a retiree who I recently met. He said that will being processed out they found that he had a loss in range of motion in his shoulder and the doctor wanted to get a rating assigned. He said he also ran into individuals who were telling him that he was a “woos” for trying to get disability and do the manly thing and just take his retirement. Talk about low self esteem. Only a person with low self esteem would give up something rightfully theirs because some clowns laid a guilt trip on him.

“wouldn't you feel better if you could bootstrap yourself into some meaningful occupation and get rid of your dependence on VA?”

In the above generalization, are we talking about all disabilities are just psychiatric disabilities. Should we forgo our dependency on the GI bill to get through college. Then having the satisfaction of knowing that when we graduated that “WE DID IT OUR WAY”. Is this something you tell every veteran that walks in the front door of the VSO office. Or, is this just a special treat for hadit. Is there a big copy of the above statement framed and hanging on the wall in the lobby of your VSO office. If so, post a picture for us to see.

“One thing I believe in is individual differences. One person's catastrophe is another's challenge to be overcome. Psychologists call it compensation. Fred's a good example of the latter.”

Don, you are beginning to sound like you have inklings to be a self help guru. Sometimes your expressions and use of generalizations make it hard for me to decipher your thoughts. “totally schizo” Talking about choices and peoples responses to challenges and people picking themselves up from the boot straps.

I was beginning to wonder if you were trying to make a point about a schizophrenic picking himself up by the boot straps, or making choices that led to recovery. I have been around “psychotics” with various levels of functioning for a long time. I have read lots of discharge notes. I also have had reoccurring psychotic episodes. I have been treated and or studied psychology since the age of 21. I studied psychology in the UC system and was known to get “A’s” in my upper division core classes. In between psychotic episodes and the various careers, I wound up in an inpatient rehab program at the VA. I eventually went on to an excellent civil service position as a result of the three weeks of training provided to me by the VA. Three weeks does not sound like much. However, without that training I would not have passed the civil service exam I had to take for the position. Two years later the VA hunted me down and asked me if they could make a film about my success in the program to show at VA hospitals all over the USA. I gladly did the filmed interviews. Maybe they showed the film in your town. A couple years after that the labor law lawyers found out I did not tell the city I had chronic angioedema before they hired me. The lawyers went nuts and ran me out of town.

I do have a website. However, none of this is on my website. I have always thought that people who have recovered from drug dependency or life styles of habitual criminality would be a much better example of inspiration to the common man than we who were inflicted with “psychotic” disorders.

The idea that a schizophrenic did things to “significantly advance themselves and rise to a challenge to escape out of the throws of this disease does sound rather romantic and foreign to me. In school I was taught that schizophrenics had swings in their ability to function. Schizophrenics functioned better at times than others. Functioning psychotics who had required hospitalization were given a safe place to stay. Good diet and sometimes medications. Discharge notes did not say things like “he met the challenges of this disease, picked his self up by the bootstraps and walked out of the hospital”. Actually, “Responded well to medications” and “Spontaneous recovery” are the types of explanations that I have seen on discharge notes.

I went to Fred’s site to see what he had to see about his recovery. What I found is pretty much what I expected. Below is a paragraph I cut and pasted. I made the section about the medications bold. Fred does not talk like somebody who feels he cured himself or made significant advances by his decisions. It appears to me that the less severe features of his disease, the spontaneous remissions and medications allow him to function.

Pasted from Fred’s site.

“People who are physically disabled can be helped by artificial supports such as seeing eye dogs, hearing aids, or crutches. Schizophrenia requires the chemical “crutch” of neuroleptic medication. Without it, I would not be able to function as I do today. True, some medications have serious side effects, but new drugs are constantly being developed, and many of them are more effective with fewer side effects. “

Fred is an interesting person and a good example of a functioning schizophrenic. Fred just sounds glad the disease has not been any more severe and that he has medication available to him. I could post comparative symptoms of different individual schizophrenics and specifics as to the types of treatment that have been successful for many mental disorders. However, it would take to long.

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  • HadIt.com Elder

I think that winning a claim validates the Service of the Veteran. When you take the oath you make a contract with our Government and when you are awarded a claim it acknowledges the debt the government has to its promise if your service harmed you that they would make it good. The money and the benefits help but its much more than that.

The first statement does not mean that all Veterans who are not service connected are not valid.We will see how the government treats the soldiers and sailors who whave been sent to Iraq. From my place it does not look good.

Many Veterans are upset about the identity theft problem but I saw something that impressed me. The current Secretary at least apologized and as far as I can remember it is the first apology I have ever gotten from the VA.

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Pete, I believe Secretary Nicholson apologized because it was the politically expedient thing to do, especially in view of his embarassment at being asleep at the wheel. No one wanted to hear anymore excuses blaming other people or circumstances beyond his control, etc., the way we heard them from Mike Brown w/FEMA. I'm sure he didn't want to become yet another appointee who placed the President in that position - - again.

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  • HadIt.com Elder

" Don't apologize! It's a sign of weakness" John Wayne.

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Guest DON20906

That's bullshit. Show me where it says that in your enlistment contract. The eligibility criteria are in title 38 USC, not in your head.

I think that winning a claim validates the Service of the Veteran. When you take the oath you make a contract with our Government and when you are awarded a claim it acknowledges the debt the government has to its promise if your service harmed you that they would make it good. The money and the benefits help but its much more than that.

The first statement does not mean that all Veterans who are not service connected are not valid.We will see how the government treats the soldiers and sailors who whave been sent to Iraq. From my place it does not look good.

Many Veterans are upset about the identity theft problem but I saw something that impressed me. The current Secretary at least apologized and as far as I can remember it is the first apology I have ever gotten from the VA.

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  • HadIt.com Elder

x

x

x

x

That in case necessity require to send forces abroad, and there be not volunteers sufficient offered forthis service, then it be lawful for the Governor and [his] assistants to press men into service in his Majesties name...provided that any that shall goe return mamed and hurt, he shall be mayntayned [maintained] by the Colony duringe his life. (Plymouth Colony, 1636. [u.S. Cong., 1967, p. 21])

President Lincoln's eloquent second inaugural address in 1864 stated clearly the nature of the social contract ... "to care for him who shall have borne the battle and... his widow, and his orphan..."

President Theodore Roosevelt echoed the essence of the social contract in 1903, "A man who is good enough to shed his blood for his country is good enough to begiven a square deal afterwards".

On the issue of betrayal, one is reminded of the the words of Aeschylus, as quoted as preface to Anton Myrer's Once An Eagle:

So in the Libyan fable it is told, That once an eagle,

stricken with a dart,

Said, when he saw the fashion of the shaft,

"With our own feathers, not buy others' hands, Are we now

smitten."

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Guest DON20906

Very nice. I think I'm gonna hurl.

x

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That in case necessity require to send forces abroad, and there be not volunteers sufficient offered forthis service, then it be lawful for the Governor and [his] assistants to press men into service in his Majesties name...provided that any that shall goe return mamed and hurt, he shall be mayntayned [maintained] by the Colony duringe his life. (Plymouth Colony, 1636. [u.S. Cong., 1967, p. 21])

President Lincoln's eloquent second inaugural address in 1864 stated clearly the nature of the social contract ... "to care for him who shall have borne the battle and... his widow, and his orphan..."

President Theodore Roosevelt echoed the essence of the social contract in 1903, "A man who is good enough to shed his blood for his country is good enough to begiven a square deal afterwards".

On the issue of betrayal, one is reminded of the the words of Aeschylus, as quoted as preface to Anton Myrer's Once An Eagle:

So in the Libyan fable it is told, That once an eagle,

stricken with a dart,

Said, when he saw the fashion of the shaft,

"With our own feathers, not buy others' hands, Are we now

smitten."

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  • HadIt.com Elder

Wings'

The last time I was at the RO the quotes you cited from Lincoln are in a framed picture hanging on the fifth floor of the Federal Buliding in West Los Angeles. It was put there by the RO.

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Guest jstacy

Don, I dont mean to butt in but after having read the past posts and noting your abusive atitude towards some of the people on this site, Who by the way are considered in my book as fine people. These folks have been here for a long time and they have helped me in the past. Please let me note the following:

1: Hadit discussion board rules state no offensive or abusive language. Your posts are loaded.

2: You claim to be a Veterans Service Officer. You do have an extensive Knowledge of the inside of the VA rating system, But you lack the outside experience it takes to actualy file a successful claim. Not to mention the fact that you have the people skills of Andrew Dice Clay.

This makes you part of the problem and not the solution. If you relate your experiences in a posative manner in order to help veterans instead of degrading them then you are fine. If not, we do not need your help.

Thanks.

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Guest DON20906

It's also on the VA Central Office building in Washington. It's a statement of purpose Lincoln used in his second inagural address when he talked about setting up the National Asylum for Disabled Volunteer Soldiers system for Union* Civil War vets. Unfortunately, like most political speech, it wasn't followed up with much action and most disabled veterans were left on the streets to beg/die or were cared for by local charities. Pensions were based on rank instead of level of disability until 1873. There wasn't any substantive systems of benefits established until the Sherwood Act of 1912, administered by the Bureau of Pensions. The Veterans Bureau (now DVA) wasn't set up until 1930. Veterans entitlements were scattered in titles all over the USC until sometime in the 1950s when they were consolidated under title 38

*Interestingly, Congress extended VA benefits to Confederate veterans in 1977, long after 99.9% of them were dead.

Wings'

The last time I was at the RO the quotes you cited from Lincoln are in a framed picture hanging on the fifth floor of the Federal Buliding in West Los Angeles. It was put there by the RO.

Edited by DON20906
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Guest DON20906

That's okay, after 7 years of veterans work, I've earned the right to be as cynical and jaded as the rest of the folks on this site. I just express it differently. BTW, how would you know anything about my "outside experience?" Or my success rate in claims? As far as I know it's not published anywhere.

Don, I dont mean to butt in but after having read the past posts and noting your abusive atitude towards some of the people on this site, Who by the way are considered in my book as fine people. These folks have been here for a long time and they have helped me in the past. Please let me note the following:

1: Hadit discussion board rules state no offensive or abusive language. Your posts are loaded.

2: You claim to be a Veterans Service Officer. You do have an extensive Knowledge of the inside of the VA rating system, But you lack the outside experience it takes to actualy file a successful claim. Not to mention the fact that you have the people skills of Andrew Dice Clay.

This makes you part of the problem and not the solution. If you relate your experiences in a posative manner in order to help veterans instead of degrading them then you are fine. If not, we do not need your help.

Thanks.

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  • HadIt.com Elder

Don

Being abusive to guys like Peter53 will get put on the ignore list quicker than anything. Peter is one of the Godfathers of Hadit. I think you should take a hike. No wonder vets hate their VSO's.

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Don, didn't you make the dramatic leave-in-a-huff, never-to-return exit a few posts back?

Did you miss us?

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Guest DON20906

Whatever

Don

Being abusive to guys like Peter53 will get put on the ignore list quicker than anything. Peter is one of the Godfathers of Hadit. I think you should take a hike. No wonder vets hate their VSO's.

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Guest DON20906

Yeah but somebody sent me a specific substantive question that deserved answering. So I got sucked back in to this 24/7 pity party.

Don, didn't you make the dramatic leave-in-a-huff, never-to-return exit a few posts back?

Did you miss us?

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  • HadIt.com Elder

That's bullshit. Show me where it says that in your enlistment contract. The eligibility criteria are in title 38 USC, not in your head.

Don, Your elistment contract is governed by U.S.C., Title 10. Disabled active duty military are governed by U.S.C., Title 10, Chapter 55. Thereafter, disabled veterans are goverened by U.S.C., Title 38. Your enlistment contract is an explicit social contract for services rendered. ~Wings

TITLE 10, § 502. Enlistment oath

Each person enlisting in an armed force shall take the following oath:

“I, XXXXXXXXXX, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.”

In return for your enlistment contract - -

U.S.C., Title 10, Chapter 55, The purpose of this chapter is to create and maintain high morale in the uniformed services by providing an improved and uniform program of medical and dental care for members and certain former members of those services, and for their dependents

United States Code - Title 10

CHAPTER 55—MEDICAL AND DENTAL CARE

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/usc...0_II_30_55.html

TITLE 38—VETERANS’ BENEFITS

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/usc..._sup_01_38.html

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  • HadIt.com Elder

Don,

You really have a good understanding of the entire system. I have to wonder though that if several veterans that you ran into have not as you say jaded you. As such, you do not think through the appropriateness of your responses.

You do express things differently, your short response and generalized statements makes it hard for folks to understand what your point is.

Your communication skills cause problems here on hadit …. Very nice I think I’m gonna hurl. Look at the responses you get. Do you remember Fred’s strategy for helping schizophrenics? He lets them know how it is other people are responding to them. Same tactic is used in marriage counselling.

I really do not consider the “rest” of the folks on this site to be cynical or jaded. Their might be some. However, “rest” sounds pretty all inclusive to me.

I was taught that in many cases mis-communication causes more problems than can be solved in the long run. Marriage counsellors focus on resolving communications problems. It is amazing how much relationships can improve just by improving communication skills.

As far as jaded goes I am still amazed that an older member of hadit says that his body keeps him from working and asks for help. Your answer is... if by help you mean getting 100% schedular....“wouldn't you feel better if you could bootstrap yourself into some meaningful occupation and get rid of your dependence on VA?” Did you really even access his disabilities before making your response? Did you read any medical reports? Did it occur to you that “dependence on the VA” is not even a valid issue? Maybe your jaded state of mind caused you to get this guy confused with some other claim, or somebody standing in a welfare line. I can not think of any other reason this response was posted on hadit.

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Guest DON20906

If it's a contract, it's a conditional one:

10 USC 1074(:) Under joint regulations to be prescribed by the administering Secretaries, a member or former member of a uniformed service who is entitled to retired or retainer pay, or equivalent pay may, upon request, be given medical and dental care in any facility of any uniformed service, subject to the availability of space and facilities and the capabilities of the medical and dental staff. The administering Secretaries may, with the agreement of the Secretary of Veterans Affairs, provide care to persons covered by this subsection in facilities operated by the Secretary of Veterans Affairs and determined by him to be available for this purpose on a reimbursable basis at rates approved by the President.

38 USC1710. Eligibility for hospital, nursing home, and domiciliary care

(a) (1) The Secretary (subject to paragraph (4)) shall furnish hospital care and medical services which the Secretary determines to be needed--

(A) to any veteran for a service-connected disability; and

(:huh: to any veteran who has a service-connected disability rated at 50 percent or more.

(2) The Secretary (subject to paragraph (4)) shall furnish hospital care and medical services, and may furnish nursing home care, which the Secretary determines to be needed to any veteran--

(A) who has a compensable service-connected disability rated less than 50 percent or, with respect to nursing home care during any period during which the provisions of section 1710A(a) of this title [38 USCS § 1710A(a)] are in effect, a compensable service-connected disability rated less than 70 percent;

(:huh: whose discharge or release from active military, naval, or air service was for a disability that was incurred or aggravated in the line of duty;

© who is in receipt of, or who, but for a suspension pursuant to section 1151 of this title [38 USCS § 1151] (or both a suspension and the receipt of retired pay), would be entitled to disability compensation, but only to the extent that such veteran's continuing eligibility for such care is provided for in the judgment or settlement provided for in such section;

(D) who is a former prisoner of war or who was awarded the Purple Heart;

(E) who is a veteran of the Mexican border period or of World War I;

(F) who was exposed to a toxic substance, radiation, or other conditions, as provided in subsection (e); or

(G) who is unable to defray the expenses of necessary care as determined under section 1722(a) of this title [38 USCS § 1722(a)].

(3) In the case of a veteran who is not described in paragraphs (1) and (2), the Secretary may, to the extent resources and facilities are available and subject to the provisions of subsections (f) and (g), furnish hospital care, medical services, and nursing home care which the Secretary determines to be needed.

(4) The requirement in paragraphs (1) and (2) that the Secretary furnish hospital care and medical services, the requirement in section 1710A(a) of this title [38 USCS § 1710A(a)] that the Secretary provide nursing home care, and the requirement in section 1710B of this title [38 USCS § 1710B)] that the Secretary provide a program of extended care services shall be effective in any fiscal year only to the extent and in the amount provided in advance in appropriations Acts for such purposes.

Don, Your elistment contract is governed by U.S.C., Title 10. Disabled active duty military are governed by U.S.C., Title 10, Chapter 55. Thereafter, disabled veterans are goverened by U.S.C., Title 38. Your enlistment contract is an explicit social contract for services rendered. ~Wings

TITLE 10, § 502. Enlistment oath

Each person enlisting in an armed force shall take the following oath:

“I, XXXXXXXXXX, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.”

In return for your enlistment contract - -

U.S.C., Title 10, Chapter 55, The purpose of this chapter is to create and maintain high morale in the uniformed services by providing an improved and uniform program of medical and dental care for members and certain former members of those services, and for their dependents

United States Code - Title 10

CHAPTER 55—MEDICAL AND DENTAL CARE

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/usc...0_II_30_55.html

TITLE 38—VETERANS’ BENEFITS

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/usc..._sup_01_38.html

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  • HadIt.com Elder

"24/7 pity party"

Wow, do you enjoy making insults. Maybe you should stick to dealing with the cases and forgoing the insults. I could swear i remember you had offered such an understanding in a previous post. This is leading to irreconsilable difference.

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  • HadIt.com Elder

I am going fishing on my monthly excursion. I won't be back until next week.

Hang in there.

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Guest jstacy
That's okay, after 7 years of veterans work, I've earned the right to be as cynical and jaded as the rest of the folks on this site. I just express it differently. BTW, how would you know anything about my "outside experience?" Or my success rate in claims? As far as I know it's not published anywhere.

As I can tell, I can read people by what they say and how they present themselves. I would say you have had problems in the past, being a hot head, probally have hypertension. Your success rate is somewhere around 5 to 7 percent as we all know the national average of success is less than 12 percent. For each VSO who has a working relationship with the VA rating officers and who spends time at the VA usually forgets what his main responsibility is and starts to overlook issues because he thinks like the RO's themselves.

Once they go out to lunch and make a few under the table deals then it is a lose-lose situation for the Veterans. That is a disadvantage to being a VSO at the RO. Like I said in previous posts, VSO can be a good info finder, but are good to use. Kind of like the third string quarterback knowing the plays but his chances of playing time are Nil.

Edited by jstacy
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