Ilp

[Teac]

I received a phone call on 30 Jan from the San Antonio sub-office, of the Houston Regional Office. I was informed that they will approve an ILP for me. She went on to say that they must wait until they receive my Vocational rehabilation file from Georgia, before they can actually put anything in writing.

I already had one period of ILP in 2000 when the va paid for a e-machine computer and printer, and three intro to computer classes. I lived in NC back then. When I lived in Killeen Texas in 2005 I requested another period of ILP due to worsing medical issues and I was approved for a new ILP. Before my ILP was drafted and put in writing I moved to Augusta Georgia were for almost two years the va made all kinds of promises, but never deliverd any plain in writing, and I never received anything. The va indicated that I refused further counseling so they terminated the program... I answered how do you terminate something that was never put in writing...

So Now it looks like I will get a new program.. I am excited... but I requested the ILp on a whim after reading about Pete's ILP.

My needs have changed a lot since 2005 when I first wanted an ILP... Now I am not sure about what I should ask for .

I know the program is to help me become more independant in daily living.. but.. what does that really mean... considering I am on oxygen 24/7 and in a wheelchair due to a spinal and leg injury.

I would enjoy woodworking and I just had a new 10x12 shed built to use as a shop. I do need some new tools but I wonder if they will provide them or if they will say that the ILP if for something I have never done... Or will they deny something like woodworking because I am on oxygen.

I also wonder if they will provide a service dog, ( in 2005 the counselor in georgia said no dogs).

Does anyone have any Ideas as to how I can benefit from the program, or what I could ask for? I want to be prepared when I have my first meeting with the va counselor....

Wow, I have so may questions I don't know were to start.....

[Teac]

Fellow Veterans,

I am really disturbed by the way you are being treated by these VR&E Counselors. I will help as much as I can but I have to do some foraging around to find my files.

Search for ILP Plan Forms, VA IL forms, or at least ask your Counselors, tomorrow "what are the forms used to develop an ILP"?

There are specific forms that they are supposed to use to identify the Veterans "NEEDS" and after they have identified the Veterans needs in areas like

Daily Living Activities, Avocational, Community, Safety, and advanced technology.

Once the needs are identified then the counselor has to recommend products or services to obtain for the Veteran and then track the Veterans improvement or progress over a 2 year period. The 2 year period can now be extendeed for as long as necessary for GWOT OIF/OEF Veterans (Sorry for all other ERA's, I didn't make the rules).

If your counselors have not attempted to identify your needs and develop an ILP you need to contact your Congressman/woman's or your Senator's Office ASAP, and send a letter to the VR&E Department Head at your local VA and explain what you are trying to do. Don't ask for specific products and please don't ask for any lawnmowers, at least not until you are engaged in a development plan and the counselor has surrendered.

I will try to find my files tomorrow and send you the info for the forms.

It took me almost 18 months from the time I was told by the Counselor with 25 years of VR&E experience that the VR&E did not administer the ILP Program and he had never heard of it, EVER.

Went through another 2 counselors and the Senator's office for a long time. I was ignored, told the program didn't exist, that I needed to have the medical side provide the items I needed (which some of them they did), I was told the VA did not purchase any items for ILP Veterans, I was told they were cutting spending and ILP was being budgeted (BULLSHIT), and then I was ignored again, told I didn't have any NEEDS that had not been fullfilled, ignored again, and then finally with the help of a Senator's Aid, multiple letters to Ms. Ruth Fanning describing the incompetence and lies, I began receiving products.

Some of the better equipment was a Laptop with wireless router and printer, a security system (ADT) with 2 years of monitering, Canon EOS Rebel Camera with telephoto lens, several small cooking appliances, a juicer, some recreational equipment, an ergonomic zero-gravity chair and some lightweight cleaning products.

There are more but I have ADD from all the morphine.

What I had to do was develop a plan on my own. I sat down and identified the NEEDS I had caused by the service connected disabilities and then how those needs could be addressed. I then submitted my plan with the areas I mentioned above and requested products and services that would help me overcome them.

You are going to have to write letters over and over again, but you have to understand how the VA VR&E is supposed to administer the program. I WILL COME BACK TOMORROW WITH MORE INFORMATION INCLUDING CFR #'S AND GUIDELINES.

Apologize for not having it right now but my meds are kicking in and I gotta go to bed. This is not going to be easy and for some of you even all the information in the world might not help and you will have to plan your own strategies how to get these SOB'S to do their job. They are supposed to be counseling you and poviding you assistance not feeding you a line of bull and dismissing you as quickly as they can.

I agree with a lot of what you say.. but what really sticks out in my mind is that you said you considered your disabilities and tried to decide based on your disabilities what could help you..

I did the same and I was still given the run around.

First you will get from an ILP only those things the counselor recommends... some like mine say they will only approve items recommended in a home study and nothing more. But they have the authority to approved anything up too $25000 locally.

I think the problem that I and other veteans are having is based on two things.

1. the counselors just don't understand the program

2. Many veterans ask for things that are in no way going to help their disability or give them greater independance in daily living. They may ask for a lift chair because it is kool, but have no medical need for it.. or ask for woodworking tools, and then don't know how to use them or never ment to use them.......

Now.... I asked for a riding mower, because I have lung disease, knee injuries, and a spinal injury and have to pay someone to cut my grass, but I would rather do it myself..and it would give me greater independance....

On the other hand an ADT security system is not going to do anything to improve my disabilites or independance in living.

Problem #1 needs to be resolved, before Problem 2 is even addressed........

[USNDW]

Teac,

one thing you will have to do is pick your battles. If they are not willing to discuss a riding lawnmower then you have to move on. If you have lung disease and bad knees, you don't think an ADT System with a life alert pendant is going to help you?

There are other life alert systems that just use a pendant for emergencies so if you fall, or cannot breathe you can push the button and get help.

What has the counselor recommended to you? That fits your needs caused by your disabilities? That is kind of my point. I never had 1 recommendation from a counselor for 15 months. Once the VR&E Director and the Senator approached them asking why they were not helping me, things became easier. I requested items and then they either recommended them, meaning approve, or they denied and had to provide details of the denial. I think some of them are not that smart.

I know about the knee problems, have had 2 failed knee replacements on the same knee in a 2 year period and now have complex regional pain syndrome to boot. Not too mention the radiculopathy, plantar, and arthritic ankles, I too would have asked for a riding lawnmower before getting advice from another disabled Vet that if I asked for one, it may be the item that shuts down the counselor.

Are the Counselor's undertrained? Yes they are.

Do they understand how to administer the program? No, most of them don't. In fact I have spoken with VR&E Counselors with 25 years at the VR&E that claimed they didn't know what the ILP Program was. Freakin' insane.

Are they willing to help Veterans? Good question, I think many of them are not. I think many of them try to push you away as fast as they can so you will stop bothering them.

My favorite new line is "If it were not for Disabled Veterans, the Veterans Administration would run very smoothly"!

My advice is not to tell you to give up on products or services that you sincerely feel you need, but rather to start with something simple, like a laptop computer, or maybe a Segway. I don't know your conditions, but for me sitting in an office chair for more than 15-20 minutes makes my knee swell like a pumpkin, not to mention what it does to my lower back. So after reviewing some products recommended by ADA for those conditions I came up with a list of products. With your lung issues it might be a good idea for a mode of transportation like a Segway, but if your knee cannot take the stress or your hands cannot work the controls, then for you it would be useless.

Once I listed my conditions on a piece of paper I then compared disability products to my disabilities. For memory issues or the side affects of pain medication and having a gas range, I found several small countertop applicances that were electric and would help me be more independent.

A laptop computer would allow me to be more independent allowing me to set dates and times for appointments or medication reminders, stay in touch with friends and family which is a social issue, and research medical information.

I needed an electric toothbrush because my hands are so arthritic I cannot brush my teeth for more than just a few seconds with a normal one.

Small convection oven allows me to cook small portions of food for lunch without the danger of blowing our house up.

Once I began identifying products and services that would allow me to have more independent lving, fit with the goals of ILP which are Avocational, community, safety, DLA, and assistive technology, all I had to do was out down on paper what disabilities created issues for me in each category, and then what products would help overcome those barriers and what the end result would be.

After the Counselor came around (with the help of a Senator's Aid) and I was able to communicate with him in a productive manner, meaning my ideas were sound, backed up by research or my Primare Care Physicians recommendation, then he really had no choice but to either accept my recommendations or deny them. If he denied them then he knew it was going the route that would make him look like an ass and an idiot.

If you can put together an intelligent plan that meets with the ILP Guidelines, pointing out the guidelines as you go, very, very briefly. Don't expand you requests with the entire ILP instruction, just reference it briefly so the Counselor would be denying you the benefits of the program administration guidelines.

If it is possible for you to get the Counselor to come around or see life from your point of view, you may have more success. Not everyone is going to get everything they Need, that is unfortunate but until enough Veterans push these VR&E counselors far enough, many Veterans aren't going to get any help at all. At the end of my shortened ILP Plan I wrote the counselor a letter asking him to give every Veteran who came his way the same help he provided me, after some push and shove. I don't know that he will, but I can almost guarantee the next Veteran who comes along and receives no help and draws attention to the same Office or same Counselor, it is much more likely they enjoy their paycheck more than they enjoy denying Veterans benefits.

If a counselor tells you to go though your PCM or OT/PT, then got there with a list of items you think you NEED and ask them if they supply them. If they do not then send that info to the ILP counselor. I made several visits to the PCM, and the VR&E office, claiming travel pay on the way. Once the counselor knew I would go to an examiner and get a recommendation or prove that they would not supply what I needed, they stopped hassling me about getting a letter.

If a counselor tells you that the items have to come through prosthetics, please ask them to reference where in the ILP administration instruction does it state that and tell them after reading it you cannot see that anywhere. If they tell you this in person or over the phone, ASK THEM TO PUT IT IN WRITING, either in an email, a denial letter, or a note explaining why you have to go through prosthetics. Once they put it in writing and sign it, they better be able to back it up.

I can honestly tell you I spent over 60 hours researching, writing and rewriting letters and requests, looking and thinking of ways to get these guys to commit and be accountable for their denials that were unacceptable. I didn't get everything I need, but I got a hell of a lot kore than I did if I just gave up.

Good luck, and if I can be of any help please let me know

[donh777]

I applied for voc-rehab in 2011, got my interview in october 2011. Counciler was going to send home inspector out but they were waiting for more money for the contractor

account was on hold. Never heard anything until a new councler was assigned in about march this year. She found the denial for vo-hab training due to disabilities in his desk after he was re assigned. This would have been important , I think for a request for TDIU that I had working and was denied in March 2012. She had the home study done and so far I have gotten everything but the walk in shower thru HISA. I got some twisted shoe strings so I wouldnt have to tie my shoes. Long stick to help put clothes on, reach up clamper, long shoe horn, sock helper that you pull with 2 strings, Watch to set two times to remind to take medications. Now the good things ....HP computer with buisness window 7, wide screen monitor, word, a HP office jet 4in1 printer which included fax. New foam memory mattress with lift up frame, lift chair and new garage doors (2 metal doors) with door opener. My new councler is great as she typed up the form for the PCP to sign. I had to get 2 thirty day extensions for the walk in shower modification, as I live in real small town in Okla and I just couldn't get the three bids that they wanted. I called every contractor in our phone book and no one would would show up for appointment. I had a couple of worthless bids and my councler gave me name of one she had worked with before, so with his bid I turned it all in and now WAITING for approval of HISA grant. She is susposed to pick up remainder of cost above the 6800$. I filed a NOD in March for the TDIU and sent copy of the denial of vo-hab due to disabilities. WAIT......WAIT....WAIT will we ever get used to it? Probably die before nod is answered.

[USNDW]

That's great.

There are some people out there who want to help Veterans. I wish all VR&E counselors really gave a crap about ILP programs because there is so much that can be done to benefit the Veterans that need help.

[Teac]

Teac,

one thing you will have to do is pick your battles. If they are not willing to discuss a riding lawnmower then you have to move on.

I disagree, if I can show and I have that a riding mower will make me more independant than it should be provided, and its like any other claim .. winners never quit, and quiters never win.....Pick my battles yes.. but once I start one I don't retreat....

If you have lung disease and bad knees, you don't think an ADT System with a life alert pendant is going to help you?

No I don't .. I have an ADT alarm system, most of the time it takes them 10 minutes before they even call after a false alarm.. I can pick up the phone and call 911 much faster, but I am almost never alone, either my wife, daughter, son or grandson is with me ....

There are other life alert systems that just use a pendant for emergencies so if you fall, or cannot breathe you can push the button and get help.

What has the counselor recommended to you? That fits your needs caused by your disabilities? That is kind of my point. I never had 1 recommendation from a counselor for 15 months. Once the VR&E Director and the Senator approached them asking why they were not helping me, things became easier. I requested items and then they either recommended them, meaning approve, or they denied and had to provide details of the denial. I think some of them are not that smart.

My counselor has not recommended anything for me. In fact I was told I had to have a home study completed before anything could be decided, then I was sent ot an Occupational therapist at the VA Hospital. The therapist would not recommend a lawn mower saying it would hinder my lung disease, becaue of dust, yet when I request a whole house hepa filter system they give me a one room filter system..( which was useless and i gave to goodwill).

I know about the knee problems, have had 2 failed knee replacements on the same knee in a 2 year period and now have complex regional pain syndrome to boot. Not too mention the radiculopathy, plantar, and arthritic ankles, I too would have asked for a riding lawnmower before getting advice from another disabled Vet that if I asked for one, it may be the item that shuts down the counselor.

I think it really depends on the counselor, my counselor told me that I would not get anything I asked and this was before she told me her name...

Are the Counselor's undertrained? Yes they are.

Do they understand how to administer the program? No, most of them don't. In fact I have spoken with VR&E Counselors with 25 years at the VR&E that claimed they didn't know what the ILP Program was. Freakin' insane.

Are they willing to help Veterans? Good question, I think many of them are not. I think many of them try to push you away as fast as they can so you will stop bothering them.

My favorite new line is "If it were not for Disabled Veterans, the Veterans Administration would run very smoothly"!

My advice is not to tell you to give up on products or services that you sincerely feel you need, but rather to start with something simple, like a laptop computer, or maybe a Segway. I don't know your conditions, but for me sitting in an office chair for more than 15-20 minutes makes my knee swell like a pumpkin, not to mention what it does to my lower back. So after reviewing some products recommended by ADA for those conditions I came up with a list of products. With your lung issues it might be a good idea for a mode of transportation like a Segway, but if your knee cannot take the stress or your hands cannot work the controls, then for you it would be useless.

First you tell me to pick my battles and let the mower go, then you say don't give up .. I'm bewildered did you change your mind about the issue halfway through your post? Any way under my first ILP in 1999, I received a desk top computer, and printer.. and asked for nothing else.. I don't need anything simple If I did I would purchase it myself. The things that I am requesting are expensive, lawn mower, bed, lift chair, whole house hepa system etc, and all would benefit me in some way and were requested becaue of my service connected disabilities....

Once I listed my conditions on a piece of paper I then compared disability products to my disabilities. For memory issues or the side affects of pain medication and having a gas range, I found several small countertop applicances that were electric and would help me be more independent.

A laptop computer would allow me to be more independent allowing me to set dates and times for appointments or medication reminders, stay in touch with friends and family which is a social issue, and research medical information.

It would do me no good to ask for kitchen applicances, since I do not cook because I am on oxygen and even a spark would cause an explosion i can not take such a chance,. As to a lap top, frankly I think unless someone has a problem communicating, or is paralized I don't see how a computer improves daily living. I mean really what even happend to using a phone to speak to someone, or reading a book for medical information. I use a paper calendar to keep track of my appointments and medications and it only takes me a minute to joit down something on the calendar, but it would take 10 minutes just to open a computer program and another 10 minutes use the probram. Honestly, I don't see how using a computer really makes one more independant.

I needed an electric toothbrush because my hands are so arthritic I cannot brush my teeth for more than just a few seconds with a normal one.

Small convection oven allows me to cook small portions of food for lunch without the danger of blowing our house up.

A electric tooth brush cost about $20.00, I would not waste my time asking for such an item.... and as I already said I can't cook becasue I am on oxygen.

Once I began identifying products and services that would allow me to have more independent lving, fit with the goals of ILP which are Avocational, community, safety, DLA, and assistive technology, all I had to do was out down on paper what disabilities created issues for me in each category, and then what products would help overcome those barriers and what the end result would be.

After the Counselor came around (with the help of a Senator's Aid) and I was able to communicate with him in a productive manner, meaning my ideas were sound, backed up by research or my Primare Care Physicians recommendation, then he really had no choice but to either accept my recommendations or deny them. If he denied them then he knew it was going the route that would make him look like an ass and an idiot.

If you can put together an intelligent plan that meets with the ILP Guidelines, pointing out the guidelines as you go, very, very briefly. Don't expand you requests with the entire ILP instruction, just reference it briefly so the Counselor would be denying you the benefits of the program administration guidelines.

If it is possible for you to get the Counselor to come around or see life from your point of view, you may have more success. Not everyone is going to get everything they Need, that is unfortunate but until enough Veterans push these VR&E counselors far enough, many Veterans aren't going to get any help at all. At the end of my shortened ILP Plan I wrote the counselor a letter asking him to give every Veteran who came his way the same help he provided me, after some push and shove. I don't know that he will, but I can almost guarantee the next Veteran who comes along and receives no help and draws attention to the same Office or same Counselor, it is much more likely they enjoy their paycheck more than they enjoy denying Veterans benefits.

If a counselor tells you to go though your PCM or OT/PT, then got there with a list of items you think you NEED and ask them if they supply them. If they do not then send that info to the ILP counselor. I made several visits to the PCM, and the VR&E office, claiming travel pay on the way. Once the counselor knew I would go to an examiner and get a recommendation or prove that they would not supply what I needed, they stopped hassling me about getting a letter.

If a counselor tells you that the items have to come through prosthetics, please ask them to reference where in the ILP administration instruction does it state that and tell them after reading it you cannot see that anywhere. If they tell you this in person or over the phone, ASK THEM TO PUT IT IN WRITING, either in an email, a denial letter, or a note explaining why you have to go through prosthetics. Once they put it in writing and sign it, they better be able to back it up.

I can honestly tell you I spent over 60 hours researching, writing and rewriting letters and requests, looking and thinking of ways to get these guys to commit and be accountable for their denials that were unacceptable. I didn't get everything I need, but I got a hell of a lot kore than I did if I just gave up.

Good luck, and if I can be of any help please let me know

All of your other recommendations seem reasonable, and I have already tired mot of them.. they only work if your counselor is willing to work with you,. Many counselors are turned off about ILP because too many veterans try to take advantage and request Items that will not inprove them in their daily living..... but stuff that they just want. Many more counseliors have not idea what an ILP should consist of, and stil lmany more don't give a damn...

[Pete53]

Teac

Everything I got from ILC was sonsulted by my Medical Doctor. I had the Home Study which also helped.