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C&p Results Request


john999

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Hi family, I've been following for a good while now but first time posting. Had a follow up tbi C&P at vamc per request of examiner as part of my appeal on August 28, 2012. Requested copies from ROI at DORN Columbia, SC and today was told to expect a letter in mail explaining denial of this basic request. Is this common? I similarly requested a PTSD copy from same office and had no problem receiving results within 2 weeks. I know this isn't very detailed but why would they deny me my right to know? My appeal is with the RO at the office adjacent to the vamc. I appreciate any insight and love the camaraderie here. Great to see vets stand together against the system without degrading each other.

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You can have the results sent to a private doctor and then have that doctor show you. I did this.

Good idea. Do you have any insight into why they would readily give me the PTSD results but not the tbi? Granted they were different examiners, but it was the same vamc and same ROI office. Shouldn't they follow a more consistent procedure? I'm worried because the PTSD was clearly in my favor with a score of 43. I did get the notes from the tbi doc but that was before the objective testing. In the notes he indicates I have all the symptoms but wanted the objective testing to confirm his opinion. That's why I'm a bit uncertain now that he has suddenly declined to reveal to me the outcome. They have already granted me a secondary vision impairment in my left eye with severely reduced peripheral vision. This was secondary to the total anatomical loss of my right eye from the IED explosion. I'm at a combined 70% for the vision issues but was too focused on recovery to notice that they never checked for tbi or PTSD. My point is I'm not sure what the difficulty in granting the tbi is if they already consent to the severity of the head injury. Any insight would be greatly appreciated.

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  • HadIt.com Elder

I don't have any idea besides the one Phil gave for them not wanting to give you the results. If they give you results of PTSD c&p I can't see why not for TBI. You have a right to see this stuff since these are your medical records . With a GAF of 43 you are in 100% territory for the PTSD all things being equal.

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  • HadIt.com Elder

The VA is only consistent about denials, and delay.

The PTSD and TBI may add up to a VA fiduciary consideration. I'd really get a copy of the C&P(s) sent to a private doctor.

Sometimes a VA PCP will release a copy when it is in your medical records. If you even think that things might get you involved in the VA's fiduciary scheme, make sure that your VA money is in a separate account from everything else, and keep that account at whatever minimum balance is appropriate.

Correction PTSD GAF score 46 not 43

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Thanks chuck75, really appreciate your informed input. I'm not sure I understand what the va considers an "acceptable fiduciary standard". I do have SSDI and have been unemployed for almost 2years due to blindness. My condition got progressively worse and depleted most of my remaining vision in my left eye since my injury in 2006. The va themselves put me through college with the vocrehab program only to explain to me that I couldn't meet the vision standards for most federal/ DOT and state jobs. I am legally blind in my remaining eye due to the trauma to my head that blew out my right eye. They've granted that basis already before I ever filed for tbi itself. I don't know why it's taking them nearly a year to conclude that if my blindness was caused by the blast injury from the tbi, I more than likely have tbi. I have to say that when I observe the length of time most vets here have had to endure for their issues, I am more than content to be patient. Just want them to know that before they think, I have thought. I am patient not slow.

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Need some imput here family, how much weight does the objective testing for tbi carry with the raters when the examining doctor states that the test was inconclusive because the veteran scored less than 0.1% percentile and rendered the neuro psych assessment invalid. He further states that the veteran presented a poor effort/ motivation to engage/ malingering and therefore no other testing can be provided due to the nature of the vets presentation. All this is the opinion of the objective test technician which was an addendum to the chief examiners original diagnosis that the vet shows basically all the usual signs of tbi, just has no medical history outside this claim for a severe blast injury to the head in which the veteran suffered anatomical loss of one eye and severely reduced loss of peripheral vision in the other over time secondary to the anatomical loss in 2006. He further states that despite the severity of these injuries, the vet showed no signs of PTSD or tbi till 2011. Now my point is that can they use the fact that you have no history of complaining and this objective testing ( despite the fact that even they admit it doesn't prove you do not have tbi, they just can't tell how bad because they basically think you're faking it) as the sole basis for denying this vet tbi? Yes I dealt with it on my own as much as I could in the beginning and didn't aggressively pursue medical help. But that was because I was focused on healing and recovery from the main injuries of my vision loss and assumed the symptoms of PTSD and tbi were due to that. I assumed the va would look out for me after they originally awarded 70% for the eyes. I'm a marine, I was taught they wouldn't let me down if I did my best to cope. Can they really deny me my psych issues just because I did well in school for a while before I lost control of my symptoms ? Didn't they basically concede the tbi when they granted increase for the secondary vision loss from 60% to 70% in 2010? They said the vision loss was due to brain trauma. The PTSD examiner completely grants my case with a GAF of 46. I think they just realized they've been out foxed and cornered because they didn't see the tbi claim coming, now they are grabbing at straws and trying to unring the bell. Maybe the rater will wise up and follow the VA rule of giving the vet the benefit of doubt whenever they are unable to conclusively rule out your claim. Any ideas family I know this sounds complicated?

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Fellow vets and families of vets, you who bear the scars and horrid memories, the burden of healing and caring for those who bear those scars, pause a moment to think about this while you contemplate your response to my previous post. The tbi technician who in so many words accused me of faking my exam took great pains in stating repeatedly to her fellow VA employees that the patient should be denied access to her assessment of my case. Of course she couched it in the usual " out of concern for the welfare of the vet and the security of the examination process" double speak we are so used to hearing. We all know what she meant of course. She hoped to hide behind the protective curtain of the VA, while destroying the hopes and aspirations of the veteran with the subtle stroke of her pen. She hoped to take the food off my wife's table and leave my family homeless, without even giving me the curtesy of seeing who my destroyer is. I remember her well, she looked fairly young and comfortable in her well furnished office. Full of comforts and luxuries she as intent on denying me. In her secure job, paid for and guaranteed under the pretense of caring for disabled and permanently maimed veterans, she looked down her nose at me. She went through the motions of her important and all knowing job and figured she knew all she needed to know about my fake pain, then passed her judgement. In so doing she condemned me and cleverly covered her tracks in the same action, without so much as an afterthought to what my life was worth. What does she know about ambushes and dirty streets with death lurking in every trash pile and atop every roof? What does she know of the haunting dreams of friends loved and lost in violent and sudden death, and the memories that just won't die? When I signed my life away to them, I signed it away without hesitation or stipulations as to the circumstances and conditions under which I would consent to being used. I was young and full of life, and I went wherever they chose to send me. No I wasn't Rambo, but I did my job as bait for all the enemy could muster, until I was carried off the field of battle on my shield. So excuse me for not fully cooperating with your rigged rules of which I'm denied knowledge of their particulars until after the exam. Even criminals under our system are accorded the right to the knowledge of the evidence against them. Maybe I knew deep down somewhere that you weren't really concerned or interested in compensating me for what I lost as you promised when I signed that dotted line. Maybe I sensed that your so called exam, was just a mechanism designed to trick me into granting you the permission to pay me pennies on the dollar of what is my due. The way I see it, there is no wrong in refusing to obey Rules designed to cheat me. Instead to trying to guilt me with your high minded concepts of what qualifies as a technically traumatized brain, try to remember that the money you hope to save from cheating me, is what pays for the fine furniture that adorns your comfortable office. Spare me the lecture on morality.

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You will win this on appeal. I am amazed that you might have to do so. It sure looks like they might have awarded you TDIU You will probably need an IMO,

This is the hell that so many have had to go through. I don;t know why it should be this way. You will win. Do not give up.

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You will win this on appeal. I am amazed that you might have to do so. It sure looks like they might have awarded you TDIU You will probably need an IMO,

This is the hell that so many have had to go through. I don;t know why it should be this way. You will win. Do not give up.

I don't intend to buddy, the good thing is they have yet to rate my claim so I might just be overreacting from them mistakenly releasing the exam results to me before completing the process. I'm thankful for this slip up however because I now have all the evidence I need to take apart their case in my follow up Appeal if they use this examiners eval as the basis of denying or low balling my claim. They have no idea I have access to this so all ill have to do is punch holes in that examiners argument. I will simply argue that just because the science and medical technology hasn't advanced enough to sufficiently and accurately gauge the latent effects of tbi, doesn't give them the excuse to deny that such a case as mine exists. Their model is flawed, and I would argue intentionally so, and they shouldn't penalize the victim because of it. It makes no sense that they get to deny paying if their so called objective testing proves the veteran isn't sick enough, as well as deny if their testing proves the vet is too sick to be true. I mean its like heads they win, tails they win. If their testing is rendered invalid by the vets condition, they must rule in the vets favor, or at least have a higher burden to prove the vet is faking his condition than the opinion of a 30 min exam. It should not be what they think they know, it should be what they can prove. Otherwise the whole scheme is downright unAmerican.

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If you have to appeal, Sollnvictus, you should try for an IMO from a doctor that refutes the C&P examiner. The benefit of the doubt goes to the veteran

This is all Kabuki theatre,as I learned to my sorrow.But I never gave up. It took me 6 years,but I finally prevailed. I write that knowing my physical and mental health is the price I have paid and can never regain.

Your claim looks very strong, but my own experience is the RO is a dead end and the faster you get to BVA the better. Others here will tell you to go the DRO route.at the RO. You have to make the call.

DO NOT GIVE UP.

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I have found the VARO's differ on many issues of what to award, what to deny, when to award and appeal, when to put the vet through hell with the paperwork, but as you know and stated you will never give up! It is a shame all of us vets gave our all, many have suffered almost 40 years before filing, and the system that is in place is very flawed. ROI should give you all of your records via paper copy or disc copy. Many times they can't do it that day, and will mail them to you.

You need to go to the supervisor/Department Head and request them from that person in charge. Tell them you will be filing a grievance with the FOIA officer of that facility id they refuse to give you your copies. The VAMC as well as the VARO (in my opinion) hope the vet will get frustrated enough and not follow through with their claims processes. Sometimes you have to SHOW them AGAIN the obvious!! I wish it was a smooth operation but it is NOT!! Hang in there and always come back to this site for help, and also if you just need to vent!

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Halos2 I appreciate your inspired advice and intend to follow through on it. I did try again at the ROI and they released all my records unintentionally, I assume this because the tbi examiner expressly states in them several times that they are not to release it. But you're right and I consider my case on track and fortunate when I consider the wrongs done to other vets in the obscene amount of time it's taken to award them benefits they had earned in their youth. It is a sad commentary on the state of our VA when all the veteran can do about such an injustice is pray.

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If you have to appeal, Sollnvictus, you should try for an IMO from a doctor that refutes the C&P examiner. The benefit of the doubt goes to the veteran

This is all Kabuki theatre,as I learned to my sorrow.But I never gave up. It took me 6 years,but I finally prevailed. I write that knowing my physical and mental health is the price I have paid and can never regain.

Your claim looks very strong, but my own experience is the RO is a dead end and the faster you get to BVA the better. Others here will tell you to go the DRO route.at the RO. You have to make the call.

DO NOT GIVE UP.

Great insight brother, I actually only learned of my diminishing eyesight in my remaining eye from the private doctor SSDI sent me to during my claim with them. He discovered the link to the brain trauma and explained that with blast injuries, the eye can appear structurally undamaged but still lose vision as a result of a malfunction in the brain. The VA had been telling me I was basically faking that too till they consented to that IMO. I think their consent and subsequent rating award in addition to that doctors opinion should suffice as a solid basis for the appeal, just as you suggest.

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"He discovered the link to the brain trauma and explained that with blast injuries, the eye can appear structurally undamaged but still lose vision as a result of a malfunction in the brain. The VA had been telling me I was basically faking that too till they consented to that IMO. I think their consent and subsequent rating award in addition to that doctors opinion should suffice as a solid basis for the appeal, just as you suggest."

That reads liker a nexus to me. I more than agree

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Hello family, I have a general question regarding retro pay. How is it calculated? Do they pay the vet the difference of the combined rating of his total claim, or is each individual claim assessed on its own merits and compensated back to the date it was originally claimed? I'm confused because suppose a vet was at 70% combined. Then files a claim or reopened a claim for PTSD and tbi. This vet had been previously denied service connection for these two. Then he is awarded 100% sc. Now will the retro compensate him for the difference between the combined previous rating of 70% and the new 100% combined rate? Or would he be retro paid for each individual claim, that is to say PTSD and tbi separate and distinct from the total. Now in my math compensating him for each individual claim sounds like a much more favorable outcome that using the total sum formula because the former adds up to significantly more, I'm just not so sure the va pseudo math works the same way. As always, I appreciate and am grateful for all educated and generous input.

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  • HadIt.com Elder

No one ever said that the VA was consistent. Hopefully, you have an alternative, in that you can go to your PCP or outside doctor. The PCP can see the C&P if it's in the electronic files, and have a copy printed. A VA clinic can also print a copy if they are willing to do so.

You can fill out a medical information release form, and have the C&P results sent to your outside doctor, if you have one. Why they would give you PTSD C&P results and not TBI results is beyond me, unless the PTSD report minimized the problem. Being somewhat paranoid when it comes to some of the things the VA is known to do, I'd suggest you get your hands on the TBI report one way or another.

Past practices of the VA in such things as the fiduciary area scare the "H" outta me. There are some recent directives/fast letters that address a couple of the fiduciary problems, but who knows if they have been really implemented. A significant statement in one establishes that the VA now considers the fiduciary relationship as between the veteran and the fiduciary, not the fiduciary and the VA. This is a reversal of recent VA attitudes and practices that led to court cases.

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