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Hand Delivering Nod-Take Everything?


kate7772

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We are hand delivering my husband's NOD to VA regional tomorrow. Should we include all IMO's, private medical records and pertinent literature with the NOD or wait until a later date to send it in?

Thanks,

Kate

I would submit copies of everything with the NOD.

On the NOD I would also list by number, these as enclosures.

I would leave the VARO with a date stamped copy.

jmho

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Yep, that's why we are hand delivering; to get a date stamped copy, as advised here. Went to local VSO yesterday to get help with the NOD and generally have them involved in case we need them in future. Left after deciding their help would be a hinderance. This same office really messed up the original claim. The new VSO there is quite good at assuring how wonderful she is in her job but proved otherwise. She was offended we insisted on taking the NOD to hand deliver. Messed up on putting dates in and insisted we did not need to include things that the VA were likely to have. Also said we only had 30 days from the denial to file the NOD and now just needed to ask for an appeal. My husband brought the correct info up online to show her and she conceded. We plan to visit DAV in Cleveland first to see if anything needs tweaked and then take the NOD down the hall to VA regional to get a date stamp. Do we need to do anything besides watch them stamp it, like get a receipt or anything? Also, the NOD will need to go to Louisville since it involves a Camp Lejeune water claim. As long as it is stamped by Cleveland, I assume it doesn't matter if Louisville receives it after the due date of Sept 19. Correct? I imagine it will languish in Cleveland for a while.

Thanks,

Kate

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Kate7772: Do you need a VSO? You don't need 1 to file your NOD. When I hand delivered my 1st NOD 2010, I just wanted to be sure it was received due to being the 11th month. At that time I hadn't heard from my original filing VSO since 08/2008. Do you need to take all of your "NEW Evidence," I didn't but it's up to you. Everything you turn in at the VA Receptionist will be date stamped as received. Be sure all of your "New Evidence" has your Husbands name and Claim Number on each page. I eventually had a Name and Claim Number stamp made at Staples.

While your at the VARO, check out the different VSO offices. You don't need the VSO to file the NOD but you should consider a VSO DRO Hearing Specialist to consult with and accompany you to the DRO Hearing. These VSO Hearing Specialist are generally much more knowledgeable and experienced due to their "YEARS" on the job, some having been DRO's with the VA before retiring. They won't get your DRO Hearing any faster but can be a valuable information resource.

Are you requesting a DRO Review with Personal Hearing? If so, be sure to reference the "DRO Personal Hearing Request" on all future correspondence with the VA regarding this NOD.

Semper Fi

Gastone

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Kate7772: FYI. I think you mentioned you were worried about the affect of filing your NOD on your previously requested "Reconsideration" request. How long ago and who file for the Denied Claim Reconsideration? A NEW or Continued Denial Decision may have already been made. Especially if you haven't supplied all your "New Evidence" until now.

In some of my recent research on "Denied Claim Requests for Reconsideration," it appears that it is VA Policy to Immediately consider any veterans request for "Reconsideration" of a Denied Claim as the official NOD filing and the beginning of the appeals process. My interpretation of the VA Regs regarding the "Reconsideration" is that if noted in your husbands C-File, a request for "Reconsideration" filed by either your VSO or yourselves, you have Officially filed a Denial Claims NOD. This Reconsideration Filing means your denial and "New evedence" will be reviewed by the original raters immediate supervisor, not neccesarily a DRO. There is nothing mentioned by the VA Reg allowing you a personal hearing. This could be a big problem, the raters supervisor may have already reviewed your denied claim and any or no new evidence that you have supplied since the denial was issued. This happened to a friend who thought he could give the new evidence at his DRO hearing. Problem was, VSO asked for DRO Review without a hearing requested. DRO reviewed his claim without benefit of any new evedence, issued another Denial.

Don't Assume Anything. Check your E-Ben site, what is the status of your denied claim? Get A VSO at the VARO to verify your Denied Claim Status. Read up on "Sworn Declarations Vs Statement in Support of Claim." Even though you have supplied all your "New Evidence" with your 09/11/14 NOD filing, I would complete a Sworn Declaration to include PDF attachements of all New Evidence.

Semper Fi

Gastone

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Kate:

Did you request a DRO review, hearing or straight to the BVA?

Your answer will affect my answer:

1. DRO/BVA hearing. If you have a hearing, then you can inspect the RBA (Record before agency) and make sure it contains your evidence. That is a good time to make sure it has it all because, remember, your RO bundles this up and sends it off to BVA and they put whatever evidence they can find to deny you and "lose" the rest.

2. If you have no hearing, I think its a good idea to incorporate on your NOD a reference to your specific items of evidence you consider particularly usefull and favorable.

Vets appeals are incredibly disorganized, redundandant, and missing half the evidence, so its no wonder why we have to appeal to the CAVC. The bad part is that if it was not in your RBA at the BVA, dont expect the CAVC to consider it part of your evidence. You have to make sure the BVA has all your evidence..and you may get to look at your RBA...but this is not the best time to do this at the NOD, because they can still lose half your evidence before certifying it to the Board, which wont happen for about 2 years or so.

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Kate7772: FYI. I think you mentioned you were worried about the affect of filing your NOD on your previously requested "Reconsideration" request. How long ago and who file for the Denied Claim Reconsideration? A NEW or Continued Denial Decision may have already been made. Especially if you haven't supplied all your "New Evidence" until now.

In some of my recent research on "Denied Claim Requests for Reconsideration," it appears that it is VA Policy to Immediately consider any veterans request for "Reconsideration" of a Denied Claim as the official NOD filing and the beginning of the appeals process. My interpretation of the VA Regs regarding the "Reconsideration" is that if noted in your husbands C-File, a request for "Reconsideration" filed by either your VSO or yourselves, you have Officially filed a Denial Claims NOD. This Reconsideration Filing means your denial and "New evedence" will be reviewed by the original raters immediate supervisor, not neccesarily a DRO. There is nothing mentioned by the VA Reg allowing you a personal hearing. This could be a big problem, the raters supervisor may have already reviewed your denied claim and any or no new evidence that you have supplied since the denial was issued. This happened to a friend who thought he could give the new evidence at his DRO hearing. Problem was, VSO asked for DRO Review without a hearing requested. DRO reviewed his claim without benefit of any new evedence, issued another Denial.

Don't Assume Anything. Check your E-Ben site, what is the status of your denied claim? Get A VSO at the VARO to verify your Denied Claim Status. Read up on "Sworn Declarations Vs Statement in Support of Claim." Even though you have supplied all your "New Evidence" with your 09/11/14 NOD filing, I would complete a Sworn Declaration to include PDF attachements of all New Evidence.

Semper Fi

Gastone

I don't think it's that complicated. The recon is probably buried under a stack of claims on a raters desk because they don't have enough evidence to go to the "boss" and change the decision. Now with a NOD the claim will move on to the appeals team. I always use the 21-4138 that has the sworn statement on it. The RO likes to use that form anyway. They even put my change of address on a 21-4138. DRO review is an 18 month gamble. We have a small shop in the back of the country store with two DROs. Neither one of them wants to go against their own rating team. Only 11% of denied claims will go on to the BVA so they could care less. Some say a DRO review is another bite of the apple. IMHO, why walk into an ambush when you know where it is? The OIG gave my VARO an overall error rate of 30%. I think to double that is more realistic. Name and claim number on the corner of every page is muy importante!

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Yep, that's why we are hand delivering; to get a date stamped copy, as advised here. Went to local VSO yesterday to get help with the NOD and generally have them involved in case we need them in future. Left after deciding their help would be a hinderance. This same office really messed up the original claim. The new VSO there is quite good at assuring how wonderful she is in her job but proved otherwise. She was offended we insisted on taking the NOD to hand deliver. Messed up on putting dates in and insisted we did not need to include things that the VA were likely to have. Also said we only had 30 days from the denial to file the NOD and now just needed to ask for an appeal. My husband brought the correct info up online to show her and she conceded. We plan to visit DAV in Cleveland first to see if anything needs tweaked and then take the NOD down the hall to VA regional to get a date stamp. Do we need to do anything besides watch them stamp it, like get a receipt or anything? Also, the NOD will need to go to Louisville since it involves a Camp Lejeune water claim. As long as it is stamped by Cleveland, I assume it doesn't matter if Louisville receives it after the due date of Sept 19. Correct? I imagine it will languish in Cleveland for a while.

Thanks,

Kate

Get a date stamped copy of your submission from them.

I would either use or not use a vso.

If you don't want a vso in it then do not sign a poa.

If you already signed one and no longer want it - notify them

and the va in writing.

You can do this when you go there.

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Technically a "Request for a Reconsideration" at the VARO level is a re-open within the one year with New and Material evidence. I understand it has no bearing at all on the NOD or the appeal date. It can be a useful tool. It takes so long to process a decision that new evidence can come to light or the Vet's condition can change. You can file a NOD right away but sometimes in a smaller shop the rater is still familiar with your claim and will change the decision. Worked for me once anyway. I got SC for two contentions but I submitted some inpatient records that had recently come to light. Took me four months to get the decision changed. I was low-balled but at least I had retro in the bank and SC contentions to appeal.

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Carlie: Up until just recently, I agreed with your post. I did see a warning on a Stateside Legal blog advising to be "VERY Careful" in requesting the NO REG Covering "Reconsideration" due to it being considered by the VA as the filing of the NOD.

After reading that warning, I came across U.S.C. 17.133-1 "Procedures -Reconsideration of Denied Claims." I haven't found anything to indicate this regulation has been rescinded. I'm advising Vets that I talk to, to steer clear of any type of "Reconsideration" request unless they have all their "New Evidence" to submit with the Recon Request.

Semper Fi

Gastone

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Gatornavy: Check out U.S.C. 17-133-1 "Procedures-Reconsideration of Denied Claims." What do you think? Can the VA consider a Reconsideration Request a NOD filing? The VA as well as the rest of the US Govt are big on following Regs. I don't see any wiggle room in 17-1333-1 allowing the original rater or his supervisor to classify a "R-F-Recon" as anything other than a NOD filing.

Semper Fi

Gastone

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Gatornavy: Check out U.S.C. 17-133-1 "Procedures-Reconsideration of Denied Claims." What do you think? Can the VA consider a Reconsideration Request a NOD filing? The VA as well as the rest of the US Govt are big on following Regs. I don't see any wiggle room in 17-1333-1 allowing the original rater or his supervisor to classify a "R-F-Recon" as anything other than a NOD filing.

Semper Fi

Gastone

well, first of all, the VARO only knows and uses the M21 which is their operating instructions. The M21 is derived from 38 CFR. The entire VBA uses 38 CFR which is the Agency's guidelines for execution derived from the USC. The USC is enacted by Congress and signed into law by the President.

USC 17 is the law which governs how the Veteran's Health Administration reimburses Veterans for health benefits.

USC 38 is the law that governs how the Veteran's Benefits Administration operates for compensation, pension and the like.

§ 3.156 New and material evidence

(a) General. A claimant may reopen a finally adjudicated claim by submitting new and material evidence. New evidence means existing evidence not previously submitted to agency decisionmakers. Material evidence means existing evidence that, by itself or when considered with previous evidence of record, relates to an unestablished fact necessary to substantiate the claim. New and material evidence can be neither cumulative nor redundant of the evidence of record at the time of the last prior final denial of the claim sought to be reopened, and must raise a reasonable possibility of substantiating the claim.

(Authority: 38 U.S.C. 501, 5103A(f), 5108)
(b) Pending claim. New and material evidence received prior to the expiration of the appeal period, or prior to the appellate decision if a timely appeal has been filed (including evidence received prior to an appellate decision and referred to the agency of original jurisdiction by the Board of Veterans Appeals without consideration in that decision in accordance with the provisions of § 20.1304(b)(1) of this chapter), will be considered as having been filed in connection with the claim which was pending at the beginning of the appeal period.
(Authority: 38 U.S.C. 501)
Edited by GatorNavy (see edit history)
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Carlie: Up until just recently, I agreed with your post. I did see a warning on a Stateside Legal blog advising to be "VERY Careful" in requesting the NO REG Covering "Reconsideration" due to it being considered by the VA as the filing of the NOD.

After reading that warning, I came across U.S.C. 17.133-1 "Procedures -Reconsideration of Denied Claims." I haven't found anything to indicate this regulation has been rescinded. I'm advising Vets that I talk to, to steer clear of any type of "Reconsideration" request unless they have all their "New Evidence" to submit with the Recon Request.

Semper Fi

Gastone

Gastone -

I guess your going to need to keep agreeing with me - because what you've posted relates

only to VHA benefits and is not applicable to VBA benefits.

Laws and regs for VBA reconsideration come into play at the BVA level.

Reconsideration of Denied Claims

§17.133 Procedures.

(a) Scope.

This section sets forth reconsideration procedures regarding claims for benefits administered by the Veterans Health Administration (VHA).

These procedures apply to claims for VHA benefits regarding decisions that are appealable to the Board of Veterans’ Appeals (e.g., reimbursement for non-VA care not authorized in advance, reimbursement for beneficiary travel expenses, reimbursement for home improvements or structural alterations, etc.).

These procedures do not apply when other regulations providing reconsideration procedures do apply (this includes CHAMPVA (38 CFR 17.270 through 17.278) and spina bifida (38 CFR 17.904) and any other regulations that contain reconsideration procedures).

Also, these procedures do not apply to decisions made outside of VHA, such as decisions made by the Veterans Benefits Administration and adopted by VHA for decisionmaking. These procedures are not mandatory, and a claimant may choose to appeal the denied claim to the Board of Veterans’ Appeals pursuant to 38 U.S.C. 7105 without utilizing the provisions of this section. Submitting a request for reconsideration shall constitute a notice of disagreement for purposes of filing a timely notice of disagreement under 38 U.S.C. 7105(b).

(b) Process.

An individual who disagrees with the initial decision denying the claim in whole or in part may obtain reconsideration under this section by submitting a reconsideration request in writing to the Director of the healthcare facility of jurisdiction within one year of the date of the initial decision. The reconsideration decision will be made by the immediate supervisor of the initial VA decision-maker. The request must state why it is concluded that the decision is in error and must include any new and relevant information not previously considered. Any request for reconsideration that does not identify the reason for the dispute will be returned to the sender without further consideration. The request for reconsideration may include a request for a meeting with the immediate supervisor of the initial VA decision-maker, the claimant, and the claimant’s representative (if the claimant wishes to have a representative present). Such a meeting shall only be for the purpose of discussing the issues and shall not include formal procedures (e.g., presentation, cross-examination of witnesses, etc.). The meeting will be taped and transcribed by VA if requested by the claimant and a copy of the transcription shall be provided to the claimant. After reviewing the matter, the immediate supervisor of the initial VA decision-maker shall issue a written decision that affirms, reverses, or modifies the initial decision.

Note to §17.133: The final decision of the immediate supervisor of the initial VA decision-maker will inform the claimant of further appellate rights for an appeal to the Board of Veterans’ Appeals.

(The Office of Management and Budget has approved the information collection requirements in this section under control number 2900-0600)

(Authority: 38 U.S.C. 511, 38 U.S.C. 7105)

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Technically a "Request for a Reconsideration" at the VARO level is a re-open within the one year with New and Material evidence. I understand it has no bearing at all on the NOD or the appeal date. It can be a useful tool. It takes so long to process a decision that new evidence can come to light or the Vet's condition can change. You can file a NOD right away but sometimes in a smaller shop the rater is still familiar with your claim and will change the decision. Worked for me once anyway. I got SC for two contentions but I submitted some inpatient records that had recently come to light. Took me four months to get the decision changed. I was low-balled but at least I had retro in the bank and SC contentions to appeal.

Bingo.

And if you a claimant has what the claimant wants to call a request for reconsideration at the VARO level

and the one year passes by to file the NOD - they most likely will have to fight the effective date -

unless they submitted what the VBA considers as new and material evidence.

Maybe asknod will pop in here on this one and provide the skinny from his effective date.

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Carlie: I stand corrected. Thanks for your assistance and clarification of "Reconsideration U.S.C. 17.133." As long as the Recon Request doesn't affect the claim, if filed immediately after the Denial, it can't hurt and possibly may get an award. Vet's can't sit back and think the Recon will be affected by, or take the place of filing the Official NOD within the 1yr time limit.

Semper Fi

Gastone

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Carlie: I stand corrected. Thanks for your assistance and clarification of "Reconsideration U.S.C. 17.133." As long as the Recon Request doesn't affect the claim, if filed immediately after the Denial, it can't hurt and possibly may get an award. Vet's can't sit back and think the Recon will be affected by, or take the place of filing the Official NOD within the 1yr time limit.

Semper Fi

Gastone

Well it's still a time gamble if you don't file the NOD right away. The sooner you file the NOD the sooner you get a docket number for the BVA appeal. The way I see it, unless a Vet has new and material evidence that is irrefutable, or incontrovertible; then you are just throwing time back to the VARO. Few Vets (or VSOs) know what evidence will absolutely change the outcome before the appeal date passes.I got lucky once, but it was under special circumstances. I will probably never have the occasion again to submit evidence before the NOD.

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GatorNavy: Have you come across any Vets that have had a positive outcome, as in reversal of denial, with "Reconsideration?" I just started hearing the "Reconsideration" term from other Vets within the past 2yrs, if that. One purported 12yr VSO on another Blog, claims to use reconsideration on 80% of his Denied Claims. He didn't offer a success rate, when asked. He did mention that you had to be careful in the wording of the request so as it not be considered a NOD filing. Again, he didn't respond when queried regarding the "Safe" wording.

Because it worked for me, I think I'll continue to recommend filing a NOD DRO with Personal Hearing. A "Reconsideration" request seems iffy at best and may give a Vet a false since of hope. The longer they wait to file the NOD, just adds time to the hearing or court Date. Thanks for your input.

Semper Fi

Gastone

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Kate7772: I trust you got your NOD filed. You mentioned in your 1st post regarding the affect of your NOD filing on your pending "reconsideration Request." I have never used "Reconsideration" and hopefully your experience with it could help other Vets decide if it's right for them. If you could share your experiences regarding the "Reconsideration Request" we might all learn something.

1. Did you request it or did You use a VSO? 2. How long after the Denial Letter before you requested reconsideration of the decision? 3. Have you received any acknowledgement or correspondence from the VA regarding the Request for Consideration? 4. Did you supply any "New Evidence" that wasn't available for review prior to the Denial Decision Date? 5. Have you been able to track the status of your request?

Thank you for any and all information you can provide. Vets learn from the experiences of other Vets.

Semper Fi

Gastone

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There seems to be a gross misconception of the term ''reconsideration". You will not find the term used anywhere except at the BVA when referencing a denial of a BVA decision on your claim. You have the right to petition for a "Motion for Reconsideration" and have your decision reviewed for legal sufficiency. It puts a Notice of Appeal on hold and tolls the 120-day filing requirement to the CAVC. If the BVA declines the Motion for Reconsideration or, on the off chance they reconsider it and still come down with a new denial, you may then proceed to the CAVC with a timely filing of your Notice of Appeal (NOA).

To correct BroncoVet, there is no RBA or Record Before the Agency until you arrive at the CAVC. The RBA is just that-a compendium of all the adjudicative actions that occurred at the VARO and the BVA. It is, quite simply, your c-file sloppily assembled and shipped to DC with the Form 8 certifying the appeal for docketing. The CAVC refers to this as the Record on Appeal or ROA so there is some confusion on a Veterans' part as to which document is which.

As Carlie has aptly explained, a Motion for Reconsideration at the lower levels (BVA and AOJ) could probably best be characterized as a burning desire by your SO to have a RVSR review his decision and perhaps change it based on some gross error. These situations occur when a VSO Service Officer approaches the RVSR and asks for a 'do-over'. This rarely happens unless a major CUE error is apparent. I had a guy who was denied in Texas on HCV. They proclaimed that his six STD infections were willful misconduct. His SO went in and pointed out the clear interpretation of 3.301 ( c ) (1) and the matter was resolved- albeit in 4 months. This could be the closet thing you will ever see that you could characterize as a Motion for Reconsideration.

If the request for this 'administrative review' exceeds one year from denial with no appreciable action in the interim-poof. There goes your right to file a timely NOD. You have one (1) (uno) (nung) year to do so. No ifs, ands or buts. VA is not flexible on this. Examine the theory. You file. They deny in 85% of cases as is their wont. No surprise there. Most would like to believe a DRO review will change the outcome but lacking any definitive N&M E that is exculpatory, your DRO review will fall as flat as an egg-free souffle. I advocate that the new paradigm at the VA points to this avenue (DRO Review) as a dead end. Unless or until VA starts hiring in earnest with qualified personnel, the DRO path is a slow boat around the Horn of Africa.

The reasons are many and varied. First, there is a major dearth of DROs. They are leaving in droves because they are being brow-beaten by VSCMs to produce beyond their capabilities. Training and promotion is stilted and many in the AFGE union demand local promotions rather than "bringing in a shipper" as they say in horse racing. Unfortunately, there are not enough qualified personnel to promote up to this level (GS-13-14)Just as they begin in earnest, they get dragged off to deal with the major influx of new AO claims that required instant adjudication. Oakland RO is 685 days out on a DRO review with a request for hearing. Six Hundred eighty five DAYS. I'll let that sink in. You could just as easily file for a traditional appeal path, sign a Waiver of Review in the first instance, take it to DC and probably get a more nuanced and superior adjudication using 38 CFR rather than the hodgepodge of crap in the M21. Your odds of winning also go up 22% and it will occur sooner. That's a win-win if you are having trouble paying the rent.

As such, the 'Motion for Reconsideration' at the AOJ level is a chimera. If you decide to go to the RO in person to file the NOD, by all means refile all your evidence. There is no law saying you cannot. Given VA's (and to a great degree the major VSOs) propensity to lose things, you will guarantee it's all in the c-file even if duplicated. Considering how dense and myopic they are, that might be to your advantage. I gave my all-important nexus letter from my doctor to the MOPH rep to file for me. It evaporated into thin air. I discovered they didn't have all my medrecs from the civvie doctors. I hand-carried them in, too. Years later when I finally got my c-file- voila! Two sets of civvie medrecs. VA will blindly file anything you give them like a squirrel caching nuts for winter. It makes no difference if they are duplicates. The important thing is to have them in there when (and if) you do go to the CAVC. The RBA at that point is sealed and nothing is allowed in afterwards except for generalized "findings' or a mutually acceptible document both sides agree illuminates or defines the situation better. It still requires the acquiescence of the Judge/panel who is hearing it.

Evidence is king in this business. Absence of evidence is your downfall. Always err to the positive. VA is asinine but they are anally retentive. If you depend on a VSO to do this without supervision, you will inevitably lose or be shortchanged. It's not that they are uncaring or indifferent. They just have no legal training. They get 40 hrs of Blah-blah and sign the register saying they attended. No test for assimilation of knowledge is given. Every year they get a refresher that essentially does the same thing. You can sleep through these things and still be a SO. Notice I didn't say "successful SO".

If you are denied, you have a delicious option. Promptly appear at your RO as soon after you receive your denial. We're talking the next day or so after. Ask to speak with someone knowledgeable. Do not call in advance or try to set up an appointment. I doubt you'd get far with the dolts on the 800 Dial-a-Prayer anyway. All they can see nowadays is the eBenefits screen-exactly as you do. This face-to-face will be a de facto 'hearing'' where you can introduce some salient point or evidence that was overlooked. It's usually after one of these you discover your SO didn't deliver evidence crucial to your claim or VA overlooked it. It will prompt an instant 'administrative review' to ascertain your contentions and will stand a far better chance of correcting an error early on rather than sitting around for years waiting for that DRO dream decision I hear everyone talk about here.

This is just my opinion. I submitted reams of evidence over and over and well-reasoned legal theories over six year to no avail. The DRO didn't address them. The VLJ in DC did not address them. Suddenly, five minutes before showtime at the scheduled CAVC hearing, a flustered gal from the OGC ran up and said "Hold the phone. Alex is right. We stepped on our necktie. How's about we go back and give him what he asked for and quit pestering Judge Schoelen?"

Remember the formula. 15% win at the RO. 22% more prevail at the BVA. 65% get a do over with a high degree of success at the CAVC so that's why you build your case to be bulletproof below and eventually prevail above. It's sad but VA appears to have a quota system. There are just so many 100% slots open. Check it out. See the attached on Vet statistics. The numbers are static on 100%/TDIU ratings for the last 12 years in spite of the fact that a lot of guys are coming home missing large parts of their bodies. You almost have to wait for some in front of you to die to prevail.

Always remember the Common Law Mailbox Rule is the only thing that guarantees your evidence is safe. VA can, will and often utilizes the Presumption or Regularity to deny you. As Vets well know, anytime Exlax enters the conversation, the defecation is going to contact the rotary oscillator.

Clear Prop. Clear Six.

comp_vets_state_09 (2).xls

Edited by asknod (see edit history)
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