Sealed records

[panatech]

Hello everyone, an friend has an Agent Orange pending claim and he has gone as far as seen the VA Board in order to get his disability granted. He was a brown water sailor(during Vietnam) and conducted missions in classified areas. He has tried to get buddy letters but those have been non existent, since his buddies are no longer available. The VA seems perplexed as to why these records are not available in their system. Which course of action would you recommend are available for him to follow? 

[broncovet]

I agree with Buck.  While the "Navy" did not use the term "MOS" used by the Army, we use "Rate" or Rating.  Navy Non Commissioned Officers were designated not "just" Petty Officer Second class (Second Class Petty Officer is the equilivalent of "Sargent"), but by their rate:

In other words you were not a PO2, you were a DP2 (Data Processing Technician Second Class Petty Officer), for example.  

This said, we often worked "out of our rating", that is, in an area where we were needed but not trained.  Radiomen was a classic example.  In the 70's there were lots of radio men, but they were not needed.  However, they needed a lot of "computer guys".  So radio men were often doing DP (Data Processing, later change to IT, Information Technology Technicians).  

 

So, when you get out of service, the VA has certain "MOS" that, for example are exposed to loud noises, such as a Gunnery Sargent.  However, A "gunny" may or may not be exposed to loud noises, as he may or may not be actually working with guns.  He may be a recruiter, and the only guns he is involved with is when people get mad and shoot at him at the recruiters offices.  

By "pigeon holing" you into a specific MOS, which may or may not be accurate, VA uses that as an excuse to deny, because your MOS is not associated with an activity that exposes the Veteran to loud noises.  Its not the Veterans fault he was ordered to do a job he was not trained for and complied that was "normally" not his MOS.  

This reminds me a story told back in high school.  The young man joined the service, as was told by his recruiter he would be a pilot.  

Later, when he was in the military digging ditches, he complained that he was supposed to be a pilot.  

His Sargent responded.  "Ok, so you want to be a pilot?  Fine, take that dirt there and pilot (pile it)  here.  Now, you are a "pilot"...any more questions?  Im gonna give you some training, so you can pilot TWICE the dirt of everyone else.  "    

Edited October 3, 2015 by broncovet

[Andyman73]

broncovet,

Lol!!! You said "pilot"!   I wonder tho, what does it mean, then, if the "pilot" is piling it on?

 

Andy

[Chuck75]

Regarding "Brown Water" service - - -

Besides the various ships records, not a few websites refer to the MRF.

http://www.mrfa.org

http://www.rivervet.com

are just a couple

When I started with my claim, some ten or so years ago, "Brown Water" service was difficult to prove.

It turned out that, although in the Navy, and assigned to brown water ships, I ended up proving "feet on ground" from, of all things, records of treatment from an AF facility in Vietnam. I had actually personally been in the water at such places as the river at Da Nang, Cau Viet, various rivers that emptied into the Delta, Dong Tam, and numerous other places. No navy records existed showing this.  This all occurred in 1967, and very early 1968. Trying to find records from that long ago was quite an undertaking. To add to the problems, some time ago, the government allowed civilian hospital and other records showing after service treatment to be "archived".  Many medical facilities claim that they have no way to retrieve them.          I was not alone! The VA claimed that one of the ships I rode was not in Vietnam for a period that impacted several crew-men's claims, including mine. Collectively, we were able to get copies of ships log pages from historical records in Washington that proved otherwise, and get the Navy official ship's history corrected. Today, the VA's error is corrected by listing all LST class ships, and the ships of Division 93 as brown water ships. In addition, the LSMR I served on is specifically listed by name. One of the other glaring VA errors was to ignore combat related awards that were only given when the ships were involved in combat in Vietnam. A classic example was the "Combat Action Ribbon" which used to be referred to as CR, and later CAR. In the Navy, this award was most often given to the ship's or boat's crew as a whole, rather than individuals. Other Unit level awards given and citing "under combat conditions" were also ignored. 

 

 

[Gastone]

As of about  2010, USMC Nam unit logs and after action reports were Declassified and available on line. Just took considerable work to find them.

What proof does he currently have?  Has he requested his complete Service Record?

If he were to post his Unit/Boat information including dates of service, quite possibly a Hadit member could be of assistance.

Semper Fi

[Buck52]

http://salem-news.com/articles/february202010/ao_ships.php

LIST OF BROWN WATER NAVY SHIPS!!!

 

All vessels of Inshore Fire Support [IFS] Division 93 during their entire Vietnam tour
USS Carronade (IFS 1)
USS Clarion River (LSMR 409) [Landing Ship, Medium, Rocket]
USS Francis River (LSMR 525)
USS White River (LSMR 536)

All vessels with the designation LST [Landing Ship, Tank] during their entire tour [WWII ships converted to transport supplies on rivers and serve as barracks for brown water Mobile Riverine Forces]

All vessels with the designation LCVP [Landing Craft, Vehicle, Personnel] during their entire tour

All vessels with the designation PCF [Patrol Craft, Fast] during their entire tour [Also called Swift Boats, operating for enemy interdiction on close coastal waters]

All vessels with the designation PBR [Patrol Boat, River] during their entire tour [Also called River Patrol Boats as part of the Mobile Riverine Forces operating on inland waterways and featured in the Vietnam film “Apocalypse Now”]

 

Maybe of some help?

 

 

.............Buck

Edited October 4, 2015 by Buck52