PTSD, continual denial even with VA Diagnosis and COMBAT RECORD

[MartyL16]

20 years USAF, Vietnam part '68-'69, Service Personnel Record (SPR) heading COMBAT plainly states TET OFFENSIVE '69 (missing TET OFFENSIVE '68). VA already accepted my Vietnam duty plus awarded 'presumptive' diseases because of.

VA Mental Health Psychiatrist, an MD and VA Psychologist, a PhD diagnosed me with PTSD, Depression, Anxiety, and other in 2009 thru today. Been on prescribed anti-depressants since active duty in 1985 (normal retirement July 1987),

Continuously under VA mental care, VA psychiatrist and VA psychologist thru the present..

Original PTSD claim 2006 and always denied for: No records found in VAMC, No combat Ribbon, but never scheduled for a C&P PTSD Eval ( I know the PTSD Law including change in July 2010)

90% of my Medical Treatment is OUTSIDE the VA, except EYES, EARS, Mental Health.

All Mental Health RECORDS have been in "Constructive Possession" of the VA forever. They just never looked for them in VISTA.

My NOD of 2013 Rating included 120 pages of VA Mental Health Records printed at the Phoenix VAMC (with plainly DIAGNOSED PTSD on recurring pages from 2009-02013). Also included 9 fully detailed Active Duty Stressors, 14 pages of detailed explanation of each STRESSOR, and VA LAW references.

In the Statement of the Case (SOC), even though I submitted all of this as NEW & MATERIAL EVIDENCE, the VA neither stated that they accepted it as such or rejected it but almost towards the end of the SOC they wrote this:

“We received your medical evidence from the Phoenix VA medical Center which discusses the symptoms of your medical condition.”,

“The available medical evidence is insufficient to confirm a link between current symptoms and an in-service stressor.”

“Therefore, service connection for post traumatic stress disorder remains denied.”

So they agree it is evidence but IGNORE a legal MEDICAL diagnosis.

In November 2013 I was awarded 50% for DEPRESSION, ANXIETY, and other with: "Effective Date NOT set" and "PTSD Claim is considered re-opened",

Interesting because I have been on prescribed anti-depressants from 1985(active duty), thru TODAY and documented in civilian medical records that the VA indicates it has from 1991-2008, received by the VA in 2005. This medication also in VA Mental Health records thru the Present. 

Additionally, in that same rating of 2013, I was awarded 6 months of retro pay to the day BEFORE the DRO Video Conference, with the statement "This is considered a partial award!". This PARTIAL AWARD needs to RETRO PAID back to 1987.

I didn't know that depression was RATEABLE so I never claimed it but the DRO in 2013 took all my information on DEPRESSION back to AF time but told me in the beginning of the conference that he would NOT address and of the PTSD claim.

1) How do I get the VA to follow the laws regarding PTSD, COMBAT, verifiable stressors, and the fact that:

2) the Air Force NEVER had a COMBAT ribbon until about 1988.

3) My UNIT of assignment has a PUC with a "V" for the years I was assigned to them.

4) I have BOTH Vietnam Campaign and Vietnam Service medals with 'clusters'.

What do I need help with:

I want the VA to add PTSD to my SC disability, not in place of the 50% Depression but as part of that SC rating, all the way back to 2006 original claim, or 2008-2009 VA PTSD Diagnosis. That would be a RETRO pay that I deserve.

 Can you help me?

 

[Buck52]

 Question?

what records did you use as Evidence to get the 100% TDIU & 70% S.C. you have at present?

Very Interesting

you quoted

''I want the VA to add PTSD to my SC disability, not in place of the 50% Depression but as part of that SC rating, all the way back to 2006 original claim, or 2008-2009 VA PTSD Diagnosis. That would be a RETRO pay that I deserve.''

Without medical records or even notes or  morning reports   unless you have this on your DD 214     you should be able to get these records form St Louis NRPC. RMCHave you requested your C-FILE?

DD 214 Form should have your boots on the ground from the RVN and your MOS  and your CIB and any other citation or ribbons certifications from RVN

U.S. Air Force original campaign periods[edit]

Original USAF Campaign Periods Before DoD Consolidation

Name of campaignStart DateEnd Date

Vietnam Initial Advisory Campaign15 November 19611 March 1965

Vietnam Air Defensive Campaign2 March 196530 January 1966

Vietnam Air Counteroffensive31 January 196628 June 1966

Vietnam Air Offensive29 June 19668 March 1967

Vietnam Air Offensive Phase II9 March 196731 March 1967

Vietnam Air/Ground Campaign22 January 19687 July 1968

Vietnam Air Offensive Phase III1 Apr 196831 October 1968

Vietnam Air Offensive Phase IV1 November 196822 February 1969

Tet 69 Counteroffensive[a]23 February 19698 June 1969

Vietnam Summer-Fall 1969[a]9 June 196931 October 1969

Vietnam Winter-Spring 1970[a]1 November 196930 April 1970

Sanctuary Counteroffensive[a]1 May 197030 June 1970

Southwest Monsoon1 July 197030 November 1970

Commando Hunt V1 December 197014 May 1971

Commando Hunt VI15 May 197131 October 1971

Commando Hunt VII1 November 197129 March 1972

Vietnam Cease-fire[a]30 March 197228 January 1973

Operation Frequent Wind[a]29 April 197530 April 1975

 

If you tried and they don't have them and the VA Cant't get them...you may need buddy statements from your buddies in your unit, someone that knew you while serving in Vietnam  location and name of your unit company name   what you did MOS or Temp MOS ?  do you have old post marked letters with the APO on it?

Do you have any transportation orders travel orders from moving in-country? in-country transportation going from one location to the other in a hostile zone  if you were there in 68-69 during the Tet offenses you should have these orders  and if the VA Can't find them and no way to prove your boots on the ground   then your lay statment will have to tie you into the RVN  buddy statements can do this , describe your stressors and date of location the event happen...VA will check on the information you give and see if that event happen or not and give you the benefit of doubt..within 10 days of your dates

you can use a stressor in fear for your life and use your lay statment as to why  b/c just being in a combat zone is in fear for your life  type stressor.

 Even Combat pay stubs  anything to tie you to Vietnam

 

1) How do I get the VA to follow the laws regarding PTSD, COMBAT, verifiable stressors, and the fact that:

2) the Air Force NEVER had a COMBAT ribbon until about 1988.

Any certifications, awards, unit plaque? did you get a change in rank while serving in Vietnam?

3) My UNIT of assignment has a PUC with a "V" for the years I was assigned to them.

 All these should be on your DD 214.

4) I have BOTH Vietnam Campaign and Vietnam Service medals with 'clusters'....> DD 214

do you have Itinerary for orders to RVN? Or Travel orders from your last duty station before going to RVN? AGAIN DD-214

What do I need help with: DD-214 is probably the most important document to prove your boots on the Ground in RVN. ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE ANY RECORDS AT ALL.

It will be hard to put a nexus together without some of these records but it CAN be done

   so you should request your C-FILE And see what in it.

We can get this figured out  if you were in Nam during the Tet offence   then were going to prove it  just be patient  if your in appeals be sure to keep your appeal time line in effect  being this is a Reopen claim  you may need to ask for an extention or more time to gather your evidence.

Just hang in there.

 

I'M SURE OTHER MEMBERS CAN CHIME IN   

 Asknod,Ms berta and broncovet and Gastone ...Gastone USMC and I US Army are old Vietnam Dogs As well as broncovet US Navy ,Gastone   he was over there about the same time you were , Asknod is a  combat Pilot US Air America  maybe he can help out on how to get your Records  or how to contact your old unit if its still in existence?

Asknod is also a  VA CERTIFIED CLAIMS AGENT. and elder member her eon Hadit.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 26, 2018 by Buck52

[broncovet]

Have you ordered your cfile?  Yes, you can skip that part, but it usually does not give a good result.  If you hire an attorney, he will order your cfile..and they only lose about 10 percent of the time at the BVA.  

You have some options here:

1.  Hire an attorney and fight it.  

2.  Fight it yourself, or keep with an incompetent VSO.  (If your VSO was doing his/her job, would you not have benefits by  now?)

3.  Do nothing.  

     It took Alex over 15 years, if I recall, to "prove" he had a gunshot wound in Vietnam.  He finally got his benefits..back to 1994...when he hired an attorney.  

Nova attorneys are here: https://vetadvocates.org/welcome/find-an-attorney/

I am pleased with my attorney so far.  (Chris Attig).  

https://www.attigsteel.com/

[MartyL16]

15 minutes ago, Buck52 said:

Without medical records or even notesor  combat action morning reports   unless you have this on your DD 214     you should be able to get these records form St Louis NRPC. RMCHave you requested your C-FILE?

or SF 180

DD 214 Form should have your boots on the ground from the RVN and your MOS  and your CIB and any other citation or ribbons certifications from RVN

 

If you tried and they don't have them and the VA Cant't get them...you may need buddy statements from your buddies in your unit, someone that knew you while serving in Vietnam  location and name of your unit company name   what you did MOS or Temp MOS ?  do you have old post marked letters with the APO on it?

Do you have any transportation orders travel orders from moving in-country? in-country transportation going from one location to the other in a hostile zone  if you were there in 68-69 during the Tet offenses you should have these orders  and if the VA Can't find them and no way to prove your boots on the ground   then your lay statment will have to tie you into the RVN  buddy statements can do this , describe your stressors and date of location the event happen...VA will check on the information you give and see if that event happen or not and give you the benefit of doubt..within 10 days of your dates

you can use a stressor in fear for your life and use your lay statment as to why  b/c just being in a combat zone is in fear for your life  type stressor.

 Even Combat pay stubs  anything to tie you to Vietnam

 

1) How do I get the VA to follow the laws regarding PTSD, COMBAT, verifiable stressors, and the fact that:

2) the Air Force NEVER had a COMBAT ribbon until about 1988.

Any certifications, awards, unit plaque? did you get a change in rank while serving in Vietnam?

3) My UNIT of assignment has a PUC with a "V" for the years I was assigned to them.

 All these should be on your DD 214.

4) I have BOTH Vietnam Campaign and Vietnam Service medals with 'clusters'....> DD 214

do you have Itinerary for orders to RVN? Or Travel orders from your last duty station before going to RVN? AGAIN DD-214

What do I need help with: DD-214 is probably the most important document to prove your boots on the Ground in RVN. ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU DON'T HAVE ANY RECORDS AT ALL.

Question? what records did you use as Evidence to get the 70% S.C. you have at present?

It will be hard to put a nexus together without some of these records but it CAN be done

   so you should request your C-FILE And see what in it.

We can get this figured out  if you were in Nam during the Tet offence   then were going to prove it  just be patient  if your in appeals be sure to keep your appeal time line in effect  being this is a Reopen claim  you may need to ask for an extention or more time to gather your evidence.

Just hang in there.

 

I'M SURE OTHER MEMBERS CAN CHIME IN   

Ms berta and broncovet and Gastone ...Gastone and I are old Vietnam Dogs  he was over there about the same time you were ,  maybe he can help out on how to get your Records  or how to contact your old unit if its still in existence?

 

 

 

 

Thanks for responding BUCK52. I believe I stated my official Service Personnel Record (SPR), under COMBAT states TET OFFENSIVE '69. That is an official record. My DD-214's from 20 years already reflect BOTH RVN awards. My Pulmonary Sarcoidosis and my Diabetes are BOTH SC rated disabilities, presumptively from AO.

I don't believe proving 'boots on the ground' is in question.

Being USAF, over the years, requesting and talking with NPRC, they indicate a few things, the USAF did not "keep good records" regarding TDY tours in RVN and that my unit is in the history books as of 1972.

WE came from the Philippines and supported Vietnam, Thailand, and South Korea, all TDY. I was at Quang Tri in '68, and Phu Bai in '69.

UNlike other services, we flew into Saigon or Da Nang and went where they told us on 'blanket TDY' orders. Was I at other places in RVN? yes!

I was also PCS in Thailand at UDORN RTAFB for a year, 'catching aircraft' on the runway daily with severe 'battle damage' coming from RVN, LAOS, CAMBODIA, with one pilot dead, 'hung' 700lb bombs that came off upon landing and blew up, RF-4's losing control and barely missing me but killing 6 'Crash Recovery' guys. All of these are stressors.

Where was my combat exposure? TET '69, 10-14 vehicle convoys from Phu Bai to Da Nang and back, sometimes twice a month. Sniper fire, I returned fire, along with Marines, Army, Navy, and some other AF guys selected from the Aero Port each time. BTW, when we saw the Marines move, we stopped firing and then some time after, the Marines would drag 1 or 2 NVA out of the bush, leaving them in plain view, on the side of the road. Then we all continued on. If we were returning later from our 'mission' to Da Nang, the bodies would be gone.

I don't believe that is the problem. The PTSD law changed in July 2010 and 'boiled down' to this. If a VA Psychiatrist, an MD, or a VA Psychologist, a PhD diagnosed you, me, anyone, as suffering from PTSD, the VA must accept it. That is my CASE.

 If you were in COMBAT and could prove it (my COMBAT record), the VA would STFU and believe your PTSD claim without further testing, or if you witnessed, experienced, loss of life, or possible for you or others, then that could be considered a valid stressor, even without combat.

My problem is the VA refuses to accept the DIAGNOSIS and in the SOC plainly called the DIAGNOSIS, a DISCUSSION of SYMPTOMS, then stating that it 'fell short' of the 'mark'.

BTW, I did also mention that in all those years, from 2006 on, the VA denied PTSD with no explanation and NO C&P. we are talking at least 4 separate ratings, all denied.

Assuming that my facts are valid, my thoughts lean towards a CUE claim but don't know how to, or what or who might actually realize that my claim is valid and that the Phoenix RO has 'severely and criminally' lied and 'prejudiced' my claim in a very negative and damaging way. 

I request that you reread my statements. Maybe I missed something or failed to explain my claim or dilemma.

This is all very frustrating, but help is appreciated.

[Buck52]

I don't doubt you were in Vietnam and seen combat  via air missions ect,,ect,,

proving boots on the ground  then VA will give you merit  that's my point in all this finding your records  .

And also VA is the only one that can give you a PTSD Diagnose   it has to come from the VA Not a private Doc.

(CAN YOU POST A redacted copy of your denial  ...>your last denial. cover claim # and name personal stuff BLACK IT OUT.)

If you were Diagnose by the VA and they denied you on the bases of  you had no Diagnose of PTSD only a discussion...you need the medical record  of that the VA Diagnose you and the Dr's Name that made the Diagnoses...if you have no record of this... and can be filed as a CUE, Check out CUE Post here on hadit and how to file  I suggest you look up the CUE criteria here on Hadit

However  CUE is the hardest of all claims to win and without records any ...>kind of records  the CUE Will be denied.

 ''YOUR QUOTE''Thanks for responding BUCK52.

''I believe I stated my official Service Personnel Record (SPR), under COMBAT states TET OFFENSIVE '69. That is an official record. My DD-214's from 20 years already reflect BOTH RVN awards. My Pulmonary Sarcoidosis and my Diabetes are BOTH SC rated disabilities, presumptively from AO.''

''My problem is the VA refuses to accept the DIAGNOSIS and in the SOC plainly called the DIAGNOSIS, a DISCUSSION of SYMPTOMS, then stating that it 'fell short' of the 'mark'.''

Yes I agree this would be CUE. ..>Again if you have the records to back you up.

My reason I stated about all your Vietnam service is you don't have any records of it and of what  all you just mention. it will be hard to convince the VA Other wise   but it can be a proven fact...you mention all these places but no proof of record. or medical evidence  or unit reports combat pay, operations air missions  they all should be of record

I am familiar with the locations you mention in Vietnam  I spent two years over there  but don't like to write about it,  matter fact I had to stop reading your post   drawing up some old memories  which I don't need.

my brother-in law was USMC 1st marines  was a causality up at Quang Tri -Province as a M -60 machine Gunner July 1968 he is on the virtual wall 

http://www.virtualwall.org/df/FoleyWL01a.htm

 

But never the less, Records is what you need to prove what you say  and if you don't have these records, to support or substantiate your claim...the the only alternative is via Buddy statements

* Question?

How did you get adjudicated &  service connected for the rating you got? you had to have records of some kind for that?

if you want your PTSD to be S.C. And a rating..your going to have to fight the VA  and if you don't have any type of proof  other than  about a discussion from  what the VA mention about a discussion of PTSD   The burden of proof is on you.

you need a DX for PTSD from the VA and to get that the burden of proof is on you and you do that by evidence of record or through buddy statements.and your own merit lay statements.

Read This

PTSD claims can complicate the already confusing and murky claims process. Even with the new regulations passed in 2010 that make it easier for veterans with PTSD to qualify for VA benefits, a veteran with a PTSD claim will face unique challenges. There are three requirements that make up a claim for PTSD: (1) a current diagnosis; (2) an in-service stressor; and (3) a link between the current diagnosis and stressor.

Current Diagnosis: The first step to receiving VA benefits for PTSD requires the veteran to have a current diagnosis. A psychiatrist, psychologist, licensed social worker, or other mental health care practitioner must diagnosis the veteran with PTSD in order to show that the veteran is currently suffering from PTSD. Additionally, the diagnosis must conform to specific criteria and it is important the diagnosing doctor provide a report that fully describes why he feels the veteran has PTSD and how the veteran’s symptoms meet the specific criteria. All of this medical evidence must show that it is “as likely as not” that the veteran currently has disabling PTSD.

In-Service Stressor: One of the challenges with a PTSD claim is getting service connection. PTSD is not presumed to be related to service, so a veteran will need to have more than just a current diagnosis. The veteran must show that the stressful event that caused PTSD occurred during service. This does not mean that the veteran must have engaged in combat. Any traumatic event that satisfies the diagnostic criteria can be a sufficient stressor. However, there are different rules for combat vs. non-combat events. If a veteran can show that they were in combat, then a statement from the veteran may be all that is needed to prove an in-service stressor. Records that may help prove combat experience include:

Veteran’s DD214

Certain medals and awards received

Unit records showing date and location of unit assignments

On the other hand, if the veteran did not engage in combat, they must provide more evidence than their statement alone. Sometimes the veteran’s service records can help support the veteran’s claim, but other sources of information that include details about the people involved, dates, location, and a description of the event can be used. Examples of supporting evidence include:

Statements from fellow veterans that served with you

Statements from family and/or friends who knew you before and after service

Nexus: This is the link between the veteran’s current PTSD diagnosis and their in-service stressor; the veteran’s current diagnosis must be related to their in-service stressor. The nexus must be proven by medical evidence such as an opinion from a qualified doctor. Another great resource for establishing a nexus is records from a Vet Center. Vet Centers have licensed social workers that will take the time to document the connection between the veteran’s stressor and their current diagnosis.

Keep in mind that, proving each one of the three requirements above is vital to getting a PTSD claim service-connected. If the proof falls short in one area, service-connection will be denied.

Once a veteran establishes service-connection for their PTSD claim, the battle isn’t over. It is important that the veteran do what they can to make sure the VA gives them the correct compensation. Compensation is based on the rating assigned to a veteran (for example, 50%). This rating is based on how severe the veteran’s PTSD symptoms are. Because the ratings are based on the veteran’s symptoms, it’s important to have medical records that detail the symptoms suffered by the veteran, and how they affect the veteran’s life. Again, this is another area where having medical opinions is crucial to building a strong case. The VA will use a C&P exam to help them determine what the appropriate rating is. A veteran should review the PTSD rating criteria used by the VA and discuss with family and friends how they see PTSD affecting the veteran. This will allow the veteran to make sure the C&P examiner can get as much information as possible that will allow them to provide an accurate report.

Source: Hill & Ponton Disability Attorneys

By going what you mention  the VA will have to decide if there's merit to it and they do this by checking your story out  if they believe your story has merit  then thats a good start.

but you don't need to take my word for it   other members can chime in here

Edited May 26, 2018 by Buck52

[Berta]

You stated:

"I want the VA to add PTSD to my SC disability, not in place of the 50% Depression but as part of that SC rating, all the way back to 2006 original claim, or 2008-2009 VA PTSD Diagnosis. That would be a RETRO pay that I deserve."

and also 

"In November 2013 I was awarded 50% for DEPRESSION, ANXIETY, and other with: "Effective Date NOT set" and "PTSD Claim is considered re-opened",

Can you scan and attach that award letter as to their reason and basis for  "Effective date NOT set".

If you did get a retro payment , they had to at some point,set the Effective date.

Have you had any correspondence since the Nov 2013 that involves the effective date of the Depression award?

 

"My problem is the VA refuses to accept the DIAGNOSIS and in the SOC plainly called the DIAGNOSIS, a DISCUSSION of SYMPTOMS, then stating that it 'fell short' of the 'mark'."

We need to see that SOC.

Cover your C file # and name prior to scanning and attaching it here. 

It would help also if we can see a redacted scanned copy of the C& P exam they used to determine the 'it fell short of the mark" statement.

I am surprised at some of the verbiage you quoted from the VA here. Maybe wth the actually SOC and C & P, we can decifer what they meant.

 

 

 

 

 

[Berta]

to add, re :the info above that Buck posted from Hill and Ponton lawyers-----

Matt Hill is a hadit member and I believed I interviewed him withJerrel Cook and Jbasser for some blog radio shows we did.

His site has a pop up if you want  a free consultation by email .

I know you realize that VA only pays compensation for one MH disability ( or a combination of MHs)

-if they do add PTSD to the depression SC, at this point, I dont see how it would garner more retro.

But with more info ,we can help more.

As Buck said:

"How did you get adjudicated &  service connected for the rating you got? you had to have records of some kind for that?"

I agree. You experienced something inservice that caused the depression.But the symptoms you had are not the same thing as having PTSD....as I understand the SOC quotes. I was in the PTSD  Vietnam Combat Rap group, when I worked at a Vet center 1984-and have been helping PTSD vets ever since-and  am the widow of a Combat vet with 100% PTSD.

PTSD has unique characteristics that VA MH professionals look for during C & P exams.

Did you formally challenge aqnd appeal any of the C & P exams, that caqused the raters to deny for PTSD?

Perhaps you should seek a better EED on the depression- but we need more info.

Or perhaps your stressors were not stressors comparable to  VA's criteria.

I have an article here available under a search as to what is and isn't a stressor for VA purposes.