RAMP questions

[broncovet]

I will start, with some general information about RAMP.  

You may, or may not get a letter from VA asking you to opt in to RAMP.  You can still opt in anyway, by completing this form:

https://benefits.va.gov/BENEFITS/docs/appeals-RAMP-Opt-in-form.pdf and sending it to the address on the form.    Currently, you have to make a choice:

1.  Higher level review.  Use this option if you dont have new evidence, but think the decision maker erred on your claim. 

2.  Supplemental claim lane.  Use this option  if you have new "relevant" evidence.  

I personally opted into RAMP about a week ago, after procrastinating a while.  Why did I do this:

My claim was from 2015.  I checked on vets.gov and there are more than 148,000 Claims ahead of me AFTER waiting 3 years.  And, my claim has "not" been certified to the Board, so that is another 773 MORE days, according to the BVA chairmans report, here:

For 2017: https://www.bva.va.gov/Chairman_Annual_Rpts.asp

This means if I stay in legacy appeals (and dont opt into RAMP), that I estimate it will take 5 or six MORE YEARS.  Waiting "another" 5 years is unacceptable to me in any circumstances.  

So, I opted into ramp against the advice of my attorney.  Why?  Because I have a reasonable chance of getting my appeal done in 125 days, that the VA promises.  The attorneys always say, "there are too many unknowns in RAMP".  Well there are at least 5 unknowns in legacy appeals:  2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, and 2022.   I would rather get denied in 2018 (so I can appeal ) than to wait until 2023, or later, and still maybe not get my benefits and still have to appeal.  

Edited August 12, 2018 by broncovet

[Nick Johnson]

Should I opt into RAMP? I just received my letter in the mail a couple weeks ago asking if I wanted in. My appeal status according to Vets.gov says: "A Decision Review Officer is reviewing your appeal". My Notice of Disagreement is dated August 21, 2017.  I've been on the fence if I should opt in or not. I'm sick and tired of waiting and I believe that I have provided VA enough evidence to overturn my claim decision. It takes an act of God for me to get a hold of my VSO...they are a group of old Men that aren't always in the office and they're very slooow. It's frustrating because I was with DAV and decided to try another organization and I might be regretting my decision based on their availability to me. Anyways, just looking for some advice. Thanks.

-Nick  

[broncovet]

I recently opted into RAMP.  Here is why:

Opting into RAMP eliminates the SOC.  The SOC is an unnecessary waste of 500 days.  

Then, there are another 773 days it takes for your VARO to "certify" your claim to the BVA.  This is almost 3 years that YOUR VARO "sits" on your claim with the legacy appeals to accomplish what could or should be done in 2.5 hours.  

In my opinion, its "very unlikely" that opting into RAMP means your appeal will take longer, its designed around taking 125 days.  There is pressure on VA to complete your RAMP appeal in 125 days.  

Now, lets talk about "quality".  Are you sacraficing "quality" by opting in for the speed of RAMP?  Can anyone explain how the VARO sitting on my claim for almost 3 years before its processed improves the quality?  

If anything, waiting 3 years (500 days for SOC plus 773 days to certify it to BVA), does notthing to improve the quality of the decision, but only makes it "rust".  For example, how valid is that C and P exam you did 3 years ago?  Did anything change?  Did your condition worsen?  Very likely it did.  Did you go to the doc in that 3 years?  Did he make notes in your file?  Did he run tests?  Did you miraculously get healed of all your ailments?  (unlikely).  Chances are that your conditions worsened during that 3 years wait, and you are already considering an increase on a claim that hasnt been decided yet.  Its like working at a job and asking for a raise, and they say, "lets see..you are up for a raise in year 2021...ask us again then".  By the time 2021 rolls around, you are already seeking another raise on top of the one you were supposed to get in 2018.  

Now the negative.  The attorneys are quick to point out that "Ramp is unknown".  And, fear of the unknown is a big motivator.  There are a lot of "what if's" in RAMP, and most of those are not settled yet.  

Many years ago, I got the tractor stuck.  I sat there and "spun" the wheels and made it much worse.  My Dad was able to get the tractor out, rather easily, and asked me if I learned anything.  I replied,  "When you are "stuck", get off the tractor and try to think of "some" other way, other than just spinning your wheels, digging yourself in deeper.  Try "something" else...get a friend, get a jack, get a tow vehicle..do something different than just spin your wheels.  

    You are stuck in a mudhole for the next 3 years, likely.  The RAMP tow truck is driving by and says, "I can get you out in 125 days" or, you can sit here for 3 years.  What will it be?  

    Do you see any other tow truck drivers around?  For me, the uncertainties of RAMP are pale to the certainty of waiting at least 3 more years.  (My appeal was from 2015, and I checked and there are 140 thousand Vets still ahead of me in the line to the BVA..its not even certified yet).  

    For me, "Anything" beats the likiliness of sitting there 3 additional years.  So, Ramp driver, hook me up and pull me out of this mudhole called the legacy system, that is definately broken.  You are welcome to wait there in the mudhole, and maybe someone else may come by...I have no idea if the RAMP tow truck can actually pull this heavy tractor out of here.  Its possible he pulls me out of this mudhole, right into a worse mudhole.  However, Im definately done with this mudhole called the legacy system, and anything is an improvement.  

[Nick Johnson]

21 hours ago, broncovet said:

I recently opted into RAMP.  Here is why:

Opting into RAMP eliminates the SOC.  The SOC is an unnecessary waste of 500 days.  

Then, there are another 773 days it takes for your VARO to "certify" your claim to the BVA.  This is almost 3 years that YOUR VARO "sits" on your claim with the legacy appeals to accomplish what could or should be done in 2.5 hours.  

In my opinion, its "very unlikely" that opting into RAMP means your appeal will take longer, its designed around taking 125 days.  There is pressure on VA to complete your RAMP appeal in 125 days.  

Now, lets talk about "quality".  Are you sacraficing "quality" by opting in for the speed of RAMP?  Can anyone explain how the VARO sitting on my claim for almost 3 years before its processed improves the quality?  

If anything, waiting 3 years (500 days for SOC plus 773 days to certify it to BVA), does notthing to improve the quality of the decision, but only makes it "rust".  For example, how valid is that C and P exam you did 3 years ago?  Did anything change?  Did your condition worsen?  Very likely it did.  Did you go to the doc in that 3 years?  Did he make notes in your file?  Did he run tests?  Did you miraculously get healed of all your ailments?  (unlikely).  Chances are that your conditions worsened during that 3 years wait, and you are already considering an increase on a claim that hasnt been decided yet.  Its like working at a job and asking for a raise, and they say, "lets see..you are up for a raise in year 2021...ask us again then".  By the time 2021 rolls around, you are already seeking another raise on top of the one you were supposed to get in 2018.  

Now the negative.  The attorneys are quick to point out that "Ramp is unknown".  And, fear of the unknown is a big motivator.  There are a lot of "what if's" in RAMP, and most of those are not settled yet.  

Many years ago, I got the tractor stuck.  I sat there and "spun" the wheels and made it much worse.  My Dad was able to get the tractor out, rather easily, and asked me if I learned anything.  I replied,  "When you are "stuck", get off the tractor and try to think of "some" other way, other than just spinning your wheels, digging yourself in deeper.  Try "something" else...get a friend, get a jack, get a tow vehicle..do something different than just spin your wheels.  

    You are stuck in a mudhole for the next 3 years, likely.  The RAMP tow truck is driving by and says, "I can get you out in 125 days" or, you can sit here for 3 years.  What will it be?  

    Do you see any other tow truck drivers around?  For me, the uncertainties of RAMP are pale to the certainty of waiting at least 3 more years.  (My appeal was from 2015, and I checked and there are 140 thousand Vets still ahead of me in the line to the BVA..its not even certified yet).  

    For me, "Anything" beats the likiliness of sitting there 3 additional years.  So, Ramp driver, hook me up and pull me out of this mudhole called the legacy system, that is definately broken.  You are welcome to wait there in the mudhole, and maybe someone else may come by...I have no idea if the RAMP tow truck can actually pull this heavy tractor out of here.  Its possible he pulls me out of this mudhole, right into a worse mudhole.  However, Im definately done with this mudhole called the legacy system, and anything is an improvement.  

I like your logic. You've convinced me to opt in!!! Thanks.

[broncovet]

The "higher level review" replaces the DRO review of the past.  Of course, DRO reviews are "always correct" so an appeal to the BVA is never needed, and they should just close down the BVA as they simply have no work to do,  right?

You got a similar result to the DRO review except you got it in 125 days instead of 500 days for the SOC, which is another name for a DRO review.  Now that you are in RAMP, you wont have to go through the 773 day process it took (in legacy) to "cerfify" your appeal to the BVA.  So, you do need to appeal the higher level review decision, but you just saved 3 years off your route to the BVA.  

[KC3]

Well put sir; I opted in 74 days ago with an estimated date of completion of Dec. 13th which is well over 125 days. Nonetheless that is a lot less days than 1273. Good luck!

[CoastieJD]

Submitted for RAMP supplemental review July 9, 2018.  The VA screwed me over by deciding on my original claim without scheduling my C&P exams.  I am hoping that they will allow me to have the exams through the appeals process.  Anyway, just checked my status at vets.gov and I am still in the received phase.  My estimated time of completion went from February 2019 to September 2019 over the last month.  That is well over a year from the date I submitted to go with RAMP.  125 days my arse.  Looks to be just another program that has gotten bogged down by the bureaucracy.  Be warned!