My unit did not put sworn statements about my injuries into my STRs

[dajoker12]

I am an Army Veteran that was originally active duty that later went into the ARNG (no jokes lol.)  I was never one to be a sick call ranger, so the only major thing in my STRs was an injury that I incurred to my right knee.  However, during an annual training (ADT) (not weekend drill which would be IADT) I seriously injuries my foot, ankle and especially my shoulder.  I requested to go to TMC on the base that we were doing our 3-week annual training at, however, I was told that that was not going to happen, even though the medic was recommending to the CO that I go.  I was in field artillery (13B) and I was to continue carrying out fire missions and all of the other duties required of me.  Needless to say, I believe that I aggravated the injuries even worse, especially my shoulder.  When we got back to our national guard armory, I brought up the issue once again and they acted liked it was the first time that they heard about it.  I said that I brought it up with two NCO's on my gun line, including my section chief (thus following the chain of command.) They said it was too late to do a line of duty investigation, however, the didi take sworn statements from myself, my section chief, another specialist that witnessed the injury happening and the medic that treated me.  All four sworn statements were taken and written down on DA Form 2823.  In addition, my CO wrote a memorandum for record stating that the sworn statements are legitimate and named each person that wrote them.  He stated that he was the CO at the time and recalled the injury happening and that it happened while on duty.  He gave his contact information.  

I got an appointment at my local VA within 7-9 days of the injuries and ultimately got X rays of all, and an MRI of my shoulder.  There were clearly injuries, and the radiology reports diagnosed the injuries. I ended up getting out of the military about 5 months after the injuries. My unit never submitted the sworn statements to either my OMPF nor my STR (personnel file or service treatment records.)  I have contacted the Army to see if I could get them added to my STR after the fact, but they said that they would have had to have been added within 90 days after I got out of the Army, however, they did add them to I-perms. 

I am aware that raters are unable to really evaluate "lay evidence" towards evaluations for ratings.  My fear is that they will consider these sworn statements aka affidavits as "lay evidence."

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what to do to get them into play?

I know that at the appeals level that they take lay evidence more seriously, however,r I am not wanting to wait that long, nor wanting to rely on that entirely, especially if there is something else that I can do.

Someone suggested that I try getting a copy of my C-file and getting DBQs done of all of my contentions.  I have already sent out a Privacy Act Request form to do just that.  However, my fear is that if I go through all of the trouble to dong all of the DBQs, that the raters might simply turn around and say that there is still nothing in my STRs about my the injuries to my foot, ankle and shoulder. 

I could have sworn that I read somewhere that VA Treatment records frequently act as De Facto STRs for National Guard and Reserve members while they are in service due to their lack of treatment facilities that activie duty have.  I would think that with the sworn statements (dated obviously) and immediate treatment at nearby VA facility that would corroborate what I am saying.

Any help, insight, suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

And yes, I do have a VSO, but he says that he has no experience with this and he isn't really sure what to do about it.

Thanks in advance.

[broncovet]

"Lay evidence" is fine, in its place.  In fact, the VA can not ignore lay evidence, especially when its consistent with the facts.  

Remember, the Caluza elements:  

Current diagnois:  (Medical evidence, neither you non medical buddies, nor yourself can diagnose your maladies. 

In service event.   (Lay evidence will suffice.  A MD does not need to actually observe you being shot in service.   Your friends are competent to describe that you were shot, for example.) . 

Nexus.  (medical evidence).  Your buddies can not  decide your "current diagnosis" was at least as likely as not due to an event in service.  This will be a medical opinion made by your doctor.   

 

[doc25]

3 hours ago, dajoker12 said:

I am an Army Veteran that was originally active duty that later went into the ARNG (no jokes lol.)  I was never one to be a sick call ranger, so the only major thing in my STRs was an injury that I incurred to my right knee.  However, during an annual training (ADT) (not weekend drill which would be IADT) I seriously injuries my foot, ankle and especially my shoulder.  I requested to go to TMC on the base that we were doing our 3-week annual training at, however, I was told that that was not going to happen, even though the medic was recommending to the CO that I go.  I was in field artillery (13B) and I was to continue carrying out fire missions and all of the other duties required of me.  Needless to say, I believe that I aggravated the injuries even worse, especially my shoulder.  When we got back to our national guard armory, I brought up the issue once again and they acted liked it was the first time that they heard about it.  I said that I brought it up with two NCO's on my gun line, including my section chief (thus following the chain of command.) They said it was too late to do a line of duty investigation, however, the didi take sworn statements from myself, my section chief, another specialist that witnessed the injury happening and the medic that treated me.  All four sworn statements were taken and written down on DA Form 2823.  In addition, my CO wrote a memorandum for record stating that the sworn statements are legitimate and named each person that wrote them.  He stated that he was the CO at the time and recalled the injury happening and that it happened while on duty.  He gave his contact information.  

I got an appointment at my local VA within 7-9 days of the injuries and ultimately got X rays of all, and an MRI of my shoulder.  There were clearly injuries, and the radiology reports diagnosed the injuries. I ended up getting out of the military about 5 months after the injuries. My unit never submitted the sworn statements to either my OMPF nor my STR (personnel file or service treatment records.)  I have contacted the Army to see if I could get them added to my STR after the fact, but they said that they would have had to have been added within 90 days after I got out of the Army, however, they did add them to I-perms. 

I am aware that raters are unable to really evaluate "lay evidence" towards evaluations for ratings.  My fear is that they will consider these sworn statements aka affidavits as "lay evidence."

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what to do to get them into play?

I know that at the appeals level that they take lay evidence more seriously, however,r I am not wanting to wait that long, nor wanting to rely on that entirely, especially if there is something else that I can do.

Someone suggested that I try getting a copy of my C-file and getting DBQs done of all of my contentions.  I have already sent out a Privacy Act Request form to do just that.  However, my fear is that if I go through all of the trouble to dong all of the DBQs, that the raters might simply turn around and say that there is still nothing in my STRs about my the injuries to my foot, ankle and shoulder. 

I could have sworn that I read somewhere that VA Treatment records frequently act as De Facto STRs for National Guard and Reserve members while they are in service due to their lack of treatment facilities that activie duty have.  I would think that with the sworn statements (dated obviously) and immediate treatment at nearby VA facility that would corroborate what I am saying.

Any help, insight, suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

And yes, I do have a VSO, but he says that he has no experience with this and he isn't really sure what to do about it.

Thanks in advance.

VSO's are good, but not always great.

The VA uses the Joint Services Records Research Center (JSRRC)  to corroborate your in-service event/injuries. According to your post, there was already a paper trail that memorandum and sworn statements existed. In your lay evidence  statement try to give an approximate timeframe of when and where your injuries occurred.

Those documents exist, but you'll need to assert and remind the Regional Office that took your claim to look in the JSRRC and locate them there. 

The good part about the whole scenario is that you were seen at a VA facility soon after all your injuries occured. You didn't wait to be seen. 

I concur with broncovet about the caluza factors.

 

 

 

[Buck52]

Also if you don't have buddy statements and you remember an event that happen   that effected you mentally/ or physically you can use your unit and time and place it happen, especially in a combat zone

usually within a 10 day span   they can go back and find your unit you was with and collaborate what you say  and if it truly happen  it will be or should be on records of the place/ date and times you say it happen

I used this method from a claim I needed from Vietnam because I could not find it in my STR's..I think they eventually did find it  from JSRRC but I sent in what I remembered and they used that in their decision  as it was granted.

some times we just need to put on our old thinking cap and try to remember where and when things that happen to us  when no records can be found.

[Pockets]

WHAT? Your company commander wrote a statement and that is normal protocol? I don't like to share my ignorance but Wow. I had no idea. From this thread that sounds like normal protocol. I'm going to do some research but thanks for this info.  I can't believe I didn't know. I figured my statement would be there but I never thought my company commander would have to file a statement.  I wonder if he did.

 

HOw long has this been going on. I realize some commanders are failures in many things but it seems to me my commander would have been encouraged to file one since I filed a statement with battalion. I'm not saying he did. I'm just saying i'd love to read his opinion on my lack of cooperation with being abused.

 

Hope you find what your looking for.

Edited December 28, 2018 by Pockets
i said filed but meant to say wrote

[Carl the Engineer]

I was a Company Commander for a NG Unit.  And, no, I never wrote a statement for an injured Soldier.  But, I imagine it could happen.  Most injuries were referred to the BN HQ and the head medical person there would start a Line of Duty, etc.  And it should have been done while you were at Annual Training.

I was also a Unit Clerk in the NG.  And I can tell you that your local unit kept a "ghost" file on you and may still have it.  It will have all your stuff in it.  Guard units are like there own small little HQ's and back up everything they send forward for the almost certain, you didn't send it in.  Yes I did, here is what I sent and where I logged it.

I physically would go to my local unit armory see what they have on me.  Both medical and non-medical.  Tell them to look in that old file cabinet in the storage room that has old personnel files in it.  The current (new) clerk may not know where that is, so ask the old janitor if they have one.  Then I would call my State HQ and see what they have on me.  Do not ask the local guy or gal to get it from the State, you need to do that.  Don't rely on anyone, you need to track this down.

Active Units and Reserve Units can be somewhat impersonal as their Soldiers are mostly transient, whereas, National Guard Units are more small hometown, etc.  

I was in the same Unit for 27+ years, Enlisted, Officer and Active.  E1-E8 and O1-O3.  Yes, I was the Commander and 1SG of the same Company, but many years apart.

FWIW,

Hamslice

 

[Berta]

" I would think that with the sworn statements (dated obviously) and immediate treatment at nearby VA facility that would corroborate what I am saying."

I agree -( if those sworn statements can be found-) and try to get copies of those VA treatment records-

also every unit has at least one web site these days-

You might find unit members there who would willing write a good buddy statement-

It would have to be an eye witness account, stating how they were on the scene ( same time and place)and witnessed the injuries you got.The VA will need their contact info and they should get their signature notarized. Their bank will do that for free.

You got lots of good suggestions here-I am assuming it is not noted on your Discharge Physical?