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IU after Retirement


paulstrgn

Question

I was talking about this in another thread but as @Buck52 said I don't want to hijack someone else thread.

I will be retiring from the federal government around the end of October, I will be receiving a retirement check from them, I am also retired from the Air Force. My quest is can I get IU even though I am retired?

Once I retire I will also go to the VA Voc ReHab. I am also hoping (like everyone else on this site) to get to 100% P&T I almost there now.

If I do get 100% P&T is there any need to pursue IU?

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If you get 100% P&T there is no reason to pursue IU.  I believe if you retire they will not allow IU.  IU is for people who have lost their job or can not hold a job due to their service connected disability and is almost as hard to get as 100%.  It was ten years and two remands from the BVA before I was finally awarded IU after I lost my job due to my disability.  The VA kept insisting that I was still employable.

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Also, if you complete VR&E.  You’ll likely be expected to return to work.  

AF retirement+Federal retirement+100P&T= find something else worth doing with your time.  The VA and service organizations could use your talents.  Congratulations too!!

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25 minutes ago, vetquest said:

If you get 100% P&T there is no reason to pursue IU.  I believe if you retire they will not allow IU.  IU is for people who have lost their job or can not hold a job due to their service connected disability and is almost as hard to get as 100%.  It was ten years and two remands from the BVA before I was finally awarded IU after I lost my job due to my disability.  The VA kept insisting that I was still employable.

I agree with vetquest  with the exception a veteran can work up to age 72 if he chooses too so depends oh how long the vet wanted to work ? I think its 50/50 on the IU  or the100% scheduler  although the 100% scheduler rating is a better all around rating...(jmo)

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55 minutes ago, vetquest said:

I believe if you retire they will not allow IU.

@vetquest & @paulstrgn

this is one of the areas that VA makes murky by not following its own rules.

Here is the MR21-1 on that exact situation.


https://www.knowva.ebenefits.va.gov/system/templates/selfservice/va_ssnew/help/customer/locale/en-US/portal/554400000001018/content/554400000014564/M21-1,-Part-IV,-Subpart-ii,-Chapter-2,-Section-F---Compensation-Based-on-Individual-Unemployability-(IU)#2

IV.ii.2.F.4.c. Determining the Effect of SC Disabilities on Employability
    
    
Determine whether the severity of the SC disabilities precludes the Veteran from securing or following substantially gainful employment.
 
The following factors have no bearing on a determination of whether SC disability renders a Veteran unemployable:

    age
    NSC disabilities
    injuries occurring after military service
    availability of work, or
    voluntary withdrawal from the labor market.

IV.ii.2.F.4.e.  Considering Occupational History in IU Claims
        
A Veteran’s occupational history is not determinative of the outcome of a claim for IU unless the Veteran is currently gainfully employed.  However, occupational history is a factor that must be weighed in decision making.  In weighing the relevance of occupational history in claims for IU, consider the factors below.

    When a Veteran is currently working or the evidence shows the Veteran is capable of working but unemployed, determine whether the ability to sustain employment is marginal as discussed at M21-1, Part IV, Subpart ii, 2.F.1.d and e.
    Consider the difference between unemployment and unemployability as discussed at M21-1, Part IV, Subpart ii, 2.F.1.b.
    Voluntary retirement is not necessarily determinative of the outcome of an IU decision.  The underlying impact of the Veteran’s disabilities on the discontinuation of work is the relevant determination.
    As noted in M21-1, Part IV, Subpart ii, 2.F.2.i, SSA decisions are not determinative of the outcome of IU decisions.  However, a Veteran’s application for and/or receipt of SSA disability benefits is a factor to weigh in decision making.
    IU may be granted on a temporary basis as noted in M21-1, Part IV, Subpart ii, 2.F.4.g.
    When a Veteran is self-employed, follow the procedures at M21-1, Part IV, Subpart ii, 2.F.3.

 

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1 hour ago, MPsgt said:

Also, if you complete VR&E.  You’ll likely be expected to return to work

@MPsgt & @paulstrgn

That is a good point! I will say that the individuals context and other disabilities play into that factor.

So Paulstrgn has to visualize the scenario and evaluate it himself. 

consider if he gets TDIU and it is P&T.

The P&T is not likely off the bat. maybe in 2 or 3 years. If it is likely in the raters mind to be P&T they are likely to bump to 100% schedular P&T than leave him in suspense simply because of their duty to maximize a veterans benefits.

Being 100% schedular P&T does NOT automatically preclude Voc Rehab. A schedular vet can earn as much as they want too while a TDIU vet is limited to the annual national poverty level wage for a single person (no matter how many dependents you have) so schedular is much better.

The MR21-1 as I posted elsewhere in this thread says age and withdrawal from the workforce, and retirement are NOT to be considered in a TDIU claim. (VA often ignores that but they are not supposed to)

Suppose he applies for and gets VR&E to send him to college for 48 months. His TDIU pays the entire time plus the stipend. That's a nice extra chunk on its own.

Consider his 90% rating now and what it is likely to be in 4 years. There is a good bet his degenerating conditions will continue to degenerate in that time.

Consider that to reduce/remove the TDIU rating they either have to bump him to 100% schedular, OR after he finishes college, and finds a job, has to perform at that job for at least a year before the VA can reduce the TDIU. Even then they have go through the process, give notice, have examinations and C&P's etc.

Paul will then be what? 60ish? are they really likely to send him for all those exams, just based on age it will be less likely than for a 30 year old in the same boat after VR&E.

It is all up to Paul what he wants to do, but in my book if you can get the VocRehab, get the stipend and get your degree, then it is worth considering. I know I would do it in a heartbeat and add yet another degree to my collection.

Just food for thought

Edited by GeekySquid (see edit history)
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43 minutes ago, Buck52 said:

think its 50/50 on the IU  or the100% scheduler 

@Buck52

There is another factor in considering TDIU and 100%. SMC(S).

If they give him TDIU for one of his conditions and if I remember right he has one or more at 70% which would be a good basis for TDIU. Then his other conditions, and I believe he has many, may add up to that extra non-secondary non-related 60% that is needed for SMC(s).

In that case getting converted to 100% schedular MIGHT affect a statutory SMC(s) award or even other SMC awards. In that case the VA would leave him as TDIU so as not to reduce his benefits and compensation.

Just another consideration on the VA hamster wheel.

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Yes.. you could get IU  even if you have already retired..... I did.... like you I was retired from service then civil service ... but in my case I was forced to retire from Civil Service because of issues caused by a service connected disability.

I know many guys that were retired for years before they received IU for heart problems that got worse..

The VA does not take retirement into consideration when you apply for IU, unless you were retired because of a service connected condition ( as in my case)

There usually is no benefit to TDIU if you are rated 100%  the only exception I know of is if you are eligible for Housebound under TDIU, but not at 100%. In this case the va would give you TDIU because they are required to give you the max compensation allow under law.

I was rated TDIU in 1999,  in 2007 I was rated 100% for one condition ( lung disease)  I was also approved for A&A so in my case I benefited with the 100% rating, but in some cases ( under bradley v Peake)  a veteran could be better off with TDIU.  

Another side note:   When I was awarded 100% the TDIU was not revoked, apparently , technically you can be rated with both, while having both will not really help in compensation. In my case I had YDIu for a back injury that is rated 60%.   When I was awarded 100% , my dependents were awarded chapter 35 benefits a second time, which surprised upon reading the rules,  I learned  that it was legal to award chapter 35 each time a veteran receives a permanent 100% rating or  a permanent TDIU rating...

 

Edited by Richard1954 (see edit history)
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Yes I also agree with you guys

I am  over 66  be 67 in July of this year

I was awarded TDIU P&T Back in 2002 and since then 2014 Was service connected and rated 70% for PTSD (Note I never filed for PTSD in fear of being ashamed and just didn't want to admit I had it  until it  got out of hand and almost cost me my family) so I finally sought help via VA)

Anyway  they gave me a 100% rating with SMC H.B.s I know I am still rated for the IU...But the 70% for PTSD got me the SMC H.B.  , And thats my rating now,although I have the SMC K for E.D.  It's service connected at 0%  but paid the 108.** monthly in addition to my SMC AND 100% Rate.

since I already had the dependents benefits such as ChamVA  ect,,,ect,, When I got the 70% for PTSD  they sent me more Educational Allowances.

   On  ebenefits EOB They have to little blue round ball with 100% in the middle . and show my SMC H.B. And the SMC K   (nothing about IU?)

What I never understood is  I have heard that  now when a Veteran is Awarded TDIU   they  the VA Raters Are suppose to infer the SMC  H.B.  because he/she can't leave home for work. I don't think they had that regulation back when I was Awarded TDIU P&T  I never got the SMC H.B. until I was  S,C, for PTSD @70%

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I understand Vetquest Post  IU is intended for Veterans with a lesser rating of 100%  that their  S.C. Disability don't meet the 100% rating but  can't do any type of employment due to his S.C. Disability, the Veteran must prove with medical documentation he can't work or find any type work makng the SSG income..this is where the IU comes in  to help this veteran and his family.

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When I retire in October I will be 62, I will get my SS plus I have two young boys who will also get SS (I remarried and now have a 6 & 10). If I continue working I might lose my SS but my boys will get theirs (it will be their college fund). My SS will be reduced by what I earn, that is why I say I will lose mine.

I do appreciate all of the answers and responses above, that is what I like about this site it is full of knowledge and amazing advice.

I am praying that I get to 100% P&T before I retire. I don’t mind working if I can get the right job I can do without hurting so much. The pain from my back, legs and feet really do wear on me. I will need to find a job that will meet my physical needs.

@Buck52 I understand where you did not want to face your PTSD, I struggled with depression for years because of my pain. It took my wife pushing me to finally get treatment. 

@GeekySquid I will explore TDIU also, not sure if I can get it if I am already at 100% but it would be nice to also have SMC S. I am in the process for applying for SMC K for ED. 

Once again I really thank everyone for their advice, suggestions, and opinions they all really do help.

Thanks,

Paul

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I apologize if some of the things I am typing don’t make since, I am typing this on my iPhone. I usually use my computer but my wife is having surgery and I wanted to reply while waiting for her.

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9 minutes ago, paulstrgn said:

my wife is having surgery a

 @paulstrgn

wishing her the best in the surgery...don't worry about typo's and hell other than to distract yourself don't worry about responding here...

 

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I think of all Veterans my brothers and sisters. I would not be here today if it was not for some veterans.

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19 minutes ago, paulstrgn said:

not sure if I can get it if I am already at 100%

 

if you are rated 100% schedular, there is a seemingly rare quirk where a second rating for TDIU might happen and I think it is Buck who posted about it in his case but I am not sure.

In the normal path 100% Schedular moots TDIU this is because other than SMC's there is no pay difference.

This will now get a little on the TMI side, but it might help you so I will dive into it. This is just info for you and if it applies then keep it in mind for the your ED C&P.

In your ED C&P DBQ is a second section about Urinary Tract issues which are deeply connected to ED.

In there is a question about "pads".

Now I am old and cranky and until having that C&P I was ignorant of "pads" for men. I did know what adult diapers were and in my mind there was no way in hell I would ever buy those or wear them unless I absolutely had too. 

Yes that is obstinate, cranky, old man, and out of touch thinking... I am even uncomfortable talking about it here much less in the Real World.

The point is that when the ED Examiner was asking about "pads" I had to admit I did not know what he was talking about. I asked and he explained. When I answered with what my solution to address the issue of leakage, changing drawers several times a day, he marked that I said I did not wear "pads" which I found odd as we talked about this for 10  very uncomfortable minutes. 

In the Decision letter the VA rater notified me that I might have a claim for Voiding Dysfunction. When looking up that criteria it shows if you need more than 4 pads a day you can rate for 60% which is the max under that diagnostic code.

This is mainly a self-reported condition, though I do understand they might make you strap on a condom catheter and "measure" volume but I don't know of anyone who has had to do that or any other test for it. In fact when I have asked about Voiding Dysfunction many, like me, did not know it was rateable.

for other reasons I put in an ITF for that issue and now that those reasons are resolved, I just filed that claim last week so I don't know the outcome but I suspect another C&P or with the evidence I submitted they might just grant without one. Particularly since the VA will provide you these pads, they can easily count how many you go through a month and divide by 30.

If that helps you in any way great, if not then I have just engaged in a TMI vomit session. LOL.

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@GeekySquid @Buck52 I agree we are all brothers and sisters and as a family we can do anything. The support from this site is amazing!!!

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I wear pads at times  my PCP Ordered them for me  because I have dribble from swollen Prostate , I take meds for that ,However I was service connected for E.D. because of the PTSD Meds I take  &  I never mention the pads in my PTSD Claim  and also I went seen a Private urologist and he wrote me up a good Nexus For the secondary E.D. Claim...werid they never use his letter in making their decision  I had enough Medical records From the VA. but I did submit that urologist letter...Paid good $$ For it...grrrr

We just never know what those raters will do.

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@GeekySquid thank you for the information. Like you I do not like to discuss these things, I am glad I can use ED instead of spelling it out. My back is causing me major nerve issues from the waist down. I hate talking these issues, I hate more writing them down. I was raise like most of the baby boomers were men don’t have these issues and you sure as hell never went to a doctor for them. 

I have similar issues of leakage, as you said you find work around’s. I am not sure what causes the leakage but it is there. 

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@Buck52 I agree you never know what the eaters look at or are will to do. I hate that we even need to pay for these rivals and then the IMO...vets have to spend to much money to have benefits awarded that they earned. We should be able to claim the expenses we incur it proving our claims. 

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