Definition: Unemployed vs Retired does age determine?

[ToxicSgt73]

I have answered this question hundreds of times in the last 8 years, probably wrong.

I am looking at answering this for the VA purposes on 10-10 EZ and I only think I know the answer.

I was working in 2010 in the private sector, when I was 'awarded' SSDI (SS Disability) and I was 'awarded' LTD from workplace insurance carrier (it is an income % replacement when added to SS, no double dip). This LTD will disappear at 'retirement age' in their dictionary. 66+ something.  I am under 65 currently. 

What is my status for VA purposes? Am I retired? Am I unemployed? 

I am thinking it makes a difference how I fill that in. 

[Richard1954]

Normally an . SSDI  award  means you cannot work.....   the va will consider you retired, due to the inability to work.......

[vetquest]

If you are SSDI and unemployment insurance from your job you are done.  The VA considers you unemployable at this point if your military disability is the reason for your SSDI and private insurance.  Unfortunately the VA does not just roll over if you have these two awards.  It took ten years for the VA to declare me TDIU when I had both.  They argued that I was still employed since I was getting private insurance, that I was disabled due to disabilities other than my military disability, that I was still able to work and the list goes on.  I had to go to the BVA before someone actually read my file and declared me TDIU.

[ToxicSgt73]

13 hours ago, Richard1954 said:

Normally an . SSDI  award  means you cannot work.....   the va will consider you retired, due to the inability to work.......

thanks Richard, may I ask are you basing this on opinion or on experience? 

I always double or triple source anything...always, and the last place I would trust is to call the VA (as I feel it would just be the daily opinion of the person on the phone line on 'some' days, as it seems to be that way most places, like calling the IRS) or just like trying to fill in form 10-10 ez, it is different in content for where you find the form.

I am hoping someone else chimes in, with a link to an experience, and maybe you can expand how you come to that conclusion.

I actually don't need it now for the purpose that I was going to use it for.  10-10 ez on downloaded paper asked that question, the online fill in version 'at' the location I filled it in at 5am....did not ask. But, I might come across that question again. 

I have been trying to digest volumes of forums, blogs, gov sites, and I seem to remember reading that while the lower levels of VA claims processing try to do what you propose, say that if one receives SSDI and in this case workplace income replacement, this is double proof of someone 'not being employable due to disability'. 

But, it seems that I also read, that it has been argued and won in higher levels (I will get all these terms in time) that not only before retirement age, but even after retirement age, that for VA claims purposes, unemployable definition has to due with the effect of SC conditions on the ability of the 'average' person to work (I believe this would transfer to secondary to the SC, also). And it is not reduced by the persons age nor, if or not SS does anything. 

So, while for the last 8 years I have said in most cases when asked either in person or on paper, what is my status? I say retired.  But, upon closer examination I receive a W-2 from that private insurance company that reports wages on line 1, but, it has a visible code for (third party sick pay) which says I am not able to work, but that I am also NOT retired, for when I reach retirement age, the policy ends, and I have not reached that age. 

So, that is what I was looking for. 

To complicate matters or maybe to make them simpler if one was using logic. SSA automatically changes SSDI to 'regular SS retirement' at attainment of age 65.  My workplace policy doesn't until the magic calculated congressional budget retirement age of 66+somethin. And then I read VA has ruled for some cases that age has nothing to do with. For TDUI purposes....I am really confused now.  For now I remember reading that VA considers 65 as retirement age? 

I do have some cognitive issues, while I have I believe tremendous insight compared to what I am supposed to have on paper, I do have problems juggling these many concepts and writing them down to where I remember what I was looking for.  So, please excuse me or I ask for the allowance I need to be long winded to make a bookmark for what I need.

In my case, to make the point about them not being connected, my eventual SC disabilities (not yet claimed, nor awarded) have nothing to do with my SS award, as they do not share the same issues for the award.  And the SC issues manifested to point of being rateable long before the SS award.....I believe that makes a difference...
 

now i know what beliefs are worth....nothing in this arena, that is why I am asking, I am sure I will have to deal with this question again somewhere in the near future.

thanks

 

[ToxicSgt73]

12 minutes ago, vetquest said:

If you are SSDI and unemployment insurance from your job you are done.  The VA considers you unemployable at this point if your military disability is the reason for your SSDI and private insurance.  Unfortunately the VA does not just roll over if you have these two awards.  It took ten years for the VA to declare me TDIU when I had both.  They argued that I was still employed since I was getting private insurance, that I was disabled due to disabilities other than my military disability, that I was still able to work and the list goes on.  I had to go to the BVA before someone actually read my file and declared me TDIU.

thanks, 
 

Above I said my SS didn't share the same issues....I will ask you to read between the lines here, as my case is so complex I have no illusion that I will accomplish this in my lifetime, my pancreas has been acting up, chronic pancreatitis, surgery around the corner, and I bought a diabetic test kit to find out for myself what these crashes are about, and I am sure I looking at being on of those blog entry statistics of not being around maybe even as soon as all the dots are connected.  

My toxic exposure 'is' responsible for all of this. I will have a real hard time 'winning' the truth from the VA. SS doesn't care where my problem came from as long as I paid in the quarters and then some and then more. And when I was awarded SS I really had no 'proof'...and not much of a clue...I do now. 

So, while I have about 30% future ratings from military experience not related to toxic exposure, I have a pretty voluminous list of issues that are going to found to SC and chronic to day 1, whether VA agrees or not. 

And if this all comes to pass as I see it now......the diagnosis that I received when I was awarded SS.....will have to be revisited.  Not the effects, but the name, the cause, unless it may more likely or not co morbidity.

What a mess.

[Richard1954]

1 hour ago, ToxicSgt73 said:

hanks Richard, may I ask are you basing this on opinion or on experience? 

This is based on my experience  and the experience of others who have gone on SSD.

I am not sure why you are asking this question.. but if it is to file for VA disability benefits  you likely already know that only medical conditions that are considered service connected will result is  a disability rating.

Now in my case I was medically retired from civil service because of a service connected medical issue ( my back)... I applied for TDIU and it was awarded in record time 3 months..... but if I had been medically retired for medical conditions not service connected I would not have been awarded TDIU. I continue to this day to draw a civil service retirement and still got the W2 until I turned 65., because it was considered taxable pay... you insurance payment and SSD may also be taxable and the reason you get a W2 form. 

You also must realize that the VA does not always record SSD, as a reason to award TDIU, again because it must be for a service connected issue.

Also VA does not consider age in any I say again does not consider age,  for service connected disability awards... I was drawing TDIU at age 45.. 

 

[ToxicSgt73]

10 minutes ago, Richard1954 said:

This is based on my experience  and the experience of others who have gone on SSD.

I am not sure why you are asking this question.. but if it is to file for VA disability benefits  you likely already know that only medical conditions that are considered service connected will result is  a disability rating.

Now in my case I was medically retired from civil service because of a service connected medical issue ( my back)... I applied for TDIU and it was awarded in record time 3 months..... but if I had been medically retired for medical conditions not service connected I would not have been awarded TDIU. I continue to this day to draw a civil service retirement and still got the W2 until I turned 65., because it was considered taxable pay... you insurance payment and SSD may also be taxable and the reason you get a W2 form. 

You also must realize that the VA does not always record SSD, as a reason to award TDIU, again because it must be for a service connected issue.

Also VA does not consider age in any I say again does not consider age,  for service connected disability awards... I was drawing TDIU at age 45.. 

 

thanks Richard, 

this helps, the reason is what I am facing is very complex.  What SS lists as my disability is not rate-able as SC, I don't believe I can twist that any kind of way. 

But, what led me to that diagnosis is a big list of seemingly unconnected rate-able things that will eventually be rated as SC if my research continues to lead that way, to connect all of my many diagnoses to SC either directly or secondary.  If I was a presumptive in current law, I would be.....but, alas I am not.  I will have to do it the hard way. And I don't need any color like orange, to get there, but, its probably there, just no one can test for it, at least not yet. Or at least not publish those tests, and be very selective in the tests results published, contrary to any similar test results conducted for the same reasons anywhere else, by the same testers. 

I am sure I will have to settle for good enough, for some other reason than the truth.

I just noticed your question about why I asked it? Because it was asked exactly like that on a form in one place and not asked in another. I figure that I will run into that question again. 

I figure I am not employed, due to disability. And I am not retired. Because the insurance company would want me to go back to work if the doctor says I can go.  The doctor says no, forever. SS says I was due a Compassionate Allowance, just needed a diagnosis, no exam, no wait, Doctors CV is about a hundred pages.  But, I cannot currently connect to service.  My path here will be a multi step process, enough will service connect. And then I open to being pleasantly surprised at any time.....even to be cured and sent back to work, that is better than outliving an expiration date.