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C&P Results....less likely....


Foxhound6
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Well this sucks. It appears even after I had a nice examiner, he opined against me. Oddly enough, the reason was because the lack of complaints I made when I initially got out. I even told him that I DID complain about my back and neck pain but the NP just told me it was probably because of my SC knee issue, which he did NOTE! I feel a little betrayed lol Have a look for yourselves...

Not even sure how to come back about this now lol It almost like he just shot a torpedo at my entire claim and anything I could say to argue...

DBQ Redacted.pdf

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you can defiantly fight this!  Do not let them get you down.  That is what they want.  Now you know what they are looking for and you can write some Lay statements and show how bad it really is!  

Often we guys think we have to be so tough and don't report every little thing and they will ding us for that and it is crap.  I don't have time right now but later i will read your DBQ and give some more advice.  Also other here I am sure will hit you back with some great information!

 

You can do this!!!

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Thanks Shrek! I have a couple ideas....supplemental route. I did mention to my provider in 2013 about my back and neck but she felt it was more due to my SC knee at that time so she never did imaging or even noted my complaint. The CP doc even noted that I told him that...So i could cite that and his note in the CP exam. If that is his only reservation that is...otherwise ill go to plan B and do it secondary to my knee..

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57 minutes ago, Foxhound6 said:

Well this sucks. It appears even after I had a nice examiner, he opined against me. Oddly enough, the reason was because the lack of complaints I made when I initially got out. I even told him that I DID complain about my back and neck pain but the NP just told me it was probably because of my SC knee issue, which he did NOTE! I feel a little betrayed lol Have a look for yourselves...

Not even sure how to come back about this now lol It almost like he just shot a torpedo at my entire claim and anything I could say to argue...

DBQ Redacted.pdf 92.27 kB · 1 download

I have an idea, and what may greatly impact a change in outcome - pretty much what @shrekthetank1 said.

It sounds like you need backup on your In-service event of injury - perhaps through Facebook or other SM you can get in touch with people you may have served with and have them provide their statement around the circumstances. I got SC'ed on a couple contentions because I complained to my pals, and not to the corpsman, in which case they opted to provide an objective report - if you can do this, make sure they don't write up opinions (they aren't doctors, most likely) so they need to be able to share what they saw, heard, etc. during the event.

It sounds like contesting this argument will fall flat without something else signifying that a particular injury was the causation.

 

Case and point - the examiner doesn't have enough evidence to be convinced that the issue is SC'ed. Show them otherwise 🙂

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12 minutes ago, awgv001 said:

I have an idea, and what may greatly impact a change in outcome - pretty much what @shrekthetank1 said.

It sounds like you need backup on your In-service event of injury - perhaps through Facebook or other SM you can get in touch with people you may have served with and have them provide their statement around the circumstances. I got SC'ed on a couple contentions because I complained to my pals, and not to the corpsman, in which case they opted to provide an objective report - if you can do this, make sure they don't write up opinions (they aren't doctors, most likely) so they need to be able to share what they saw, heard, etc. during the event.

It sounds like contesting this argument will fall flat without something else signifying that a particular injury was the causation.

 

Case and point - the examiner doesn't have enough evidence to be convinced that the issue is SC'ed. Show them otherwise 🙂

AWGV, thanks for the idea. I have done so actually. He noted them in his notes. However, he never did mention the SSG who actually caused the event, only everyone else. He even mentioned my fathers statement   (i lived with my father once I got out of active duty and complained of the back and neck pain, I absolutely have continuity of the issue from the time I got out of AD to current, it seems he based his "opinion" solely on the fact that there were no notes listed under my initial visit to the VA in 2013) In fact, I did complain and the NP said it was "probably due to my gait and my SC knee" issue and she never noted it. So he is creating evidence based on no evidence? It is a little puzzling honestly.

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16 minutes ago, Foxhound6 said:

However, he never did mention the SSG who actually caused the event, only everyone else.

This person provided a statement? If so I would be sure to voice that particular point in your argument!

I have noticed that if a document isn't signed, with all the name/contact info included, AND notarized - they weigh it less and less, or even ignore it (>_<) it has and will happen - this is where we can ensure that light is brought to the particulars of our cases. That 2013 report really stuck a splinter into this claim and the argument of "continuity" - it MUST be countered in order to tip the scale.

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35 minutes ago, awgv001 said:

This person provided a statement? If so I would be sure to voice that particular point in your argument!

I have noticed that if a document isn't signed, with all the name/contact info included, AND notarized - they weigh it less and less, or even ignore it (>_<) it has and will happen - this is where we can ensure that light is brought to the particulars of our cases. That 2013 report really stuck a splinter into this claim and the argument of "continuity" - it MUST be countered in order to tip the scale.

Yes. The 2013 report he refers to is when I first went to a VA clinic...at around 25 years old...I did tell them about the back and neck but they passed it off like it was expected due to my knee issue and never noted it or did an exam. When I finally went to another clinic (a better one that listened more) and when the pain was much worse in 2016 or so, that is when it was noted and imaging was done...I really don't like that he is trying to use the lack of notes as a less likely opinion. It doesn't seem that relevant considering I have continuity of the issue starting with my father after AD. All statements were done properly and accepted, I did confirm that much before hand.

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In this portion of the pdf -

"Given that we have no visits for back pain during his time spent in the
military combined with the 2013 note indicating no complaints of back
pain, I would state it is less likely as not that the Veteran's back
pain is secondary to his 2010 episode or secondary to his time spent
in the military.

I don't know the specifics of the lay statements you turned in are, and if they address more information regarding your quality of life and a more current scope of your injuries AFTER separation.

I'm assuming that the statement from Mr. Bull was the statement provided by a person you served with? The "weight" in your claim was not found to be in equipoise - for example in your situation you have

One lay statement (assuming addresses the particular incident in detail) - vs a negative medical opinion ( the 2013 splinter )

This is the scale I was trying to explain you need to tilt in your favour, if possible. A new lay statement from another individual would help dilute the medical visit due to "not have all the facts during examination"

I hope this helps gauge things.

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Ahh I believe I understand now. Yes Mr Bull was an observer to the incident while SSG T was the catalyst so to speak as he was the one who popped the hatch that hit me. I also have my father's statement which picks up right after I returned from AD. I then have my statement and my current wife's statement (my wife also is an LPN with 10 years of long term skilled geriatric care experience). I feel the tilt should be much in my favor to be honest and nor do I feel that his rationale is enough to "technically" deny my claim. But the VA most likely will I'd assume so I plan on that and am trying to begin making my argument while I await the letter.

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This is a tough one due to no documented in service incident (stated medically as neck/back injury.

However you do have an incident.

Possibly can a neck/back specialist take x-rays or MRI (to confirm current injury) and can he opinion the incident more likely than not started the current injury.

Its possible to have an incident and it starts a tear, strain, or arthritic condition years later.

GOOD LUCK....................

NEVER GIVE UP.

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2 hours ago, Fat said:

This is a tough one due to no documented in service incident (stated medically as neck/back injury.

However you do have an incident.

Possibly can a neck/back specialist take x-rays or MRI (to confirm current injury) and can he opinion the incident more likely than not started the current injury.

Its possible to have an incident and it starts a tear, strain, or arthritic condition years later.

GOOD LUCK....................

NEVER GIVE UP.

All I would need is someone to review the current records I have and do an IMO to tear apart this terrible examiner's opinion. I may have a few arguments myself to make if it is denied officially. But my hope now is (very slim hope mind you) that the VARO looks at his "medical" opinion and doesn't find it sufficient to deny the claim based on overall weight of evidence that I provided (primarily continuity of the problem from exiting AD to now). Statements, dates, times, etc.

I am also going to go back to look at my old VA notes as far back as I can to see what other things I may find to point toward the pain. I feel this happened (aside from me not going in to be seen before I left AD) because someone in 2013 failed to put my back and neck pain complaints down in the notes....Hopefully the VARO doesn't just side with doc, hopefully they do weigh everything like they should and grant SC...but Im preparing as if they wont.

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I did find this bit interesting....possible hole in his narrative as well.

"Initial visit to the Thunderbird Clinic Oct 23 2013 under review of system notes for musculoskeletal pain some complaints of left knee pain, chronic. No complaints of back pain were noted. The initial note from Phoenix VA May 26 2016 notes back pain."

So he is stating he found no notes of back pain on my initial visit to that clinic in 2013. However, he then immediately goes on to state: "In the history, it notes that he WAS TOLD SEVERAL YEARS AGO (2014/2013) that because he has been limping on his left knee he would have back problems and now it is catching up to him."

To me, this feels like he just stated there was some sort of "note" regarding me being told that it is my knee/gait causing my back problem back around 2013/2014...… His justification seems to be born of a nice lake and a good lure...?

He has a point regarding in service treatment but, hell, I ETS'd about 3 or so months after that event...As a mid 20 something male, general aches and pains are just ignored and pushed through, especially in an infantryman role. Seems my young and dumb days are still haunting me ha!

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So It looks like you already found a hole in their logic.  I would keep your fight moving forward with an appeal.  You may need an IMO from a medical professional to help push it over the line.  I would still get your Lay statements and submit them when you appeal.

I would also check your C-file again as you would be surprised what is missed in them!  

You can win this, just keep asking questions as you move along!

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2 hours ago, shrekthetank1 said:

So It looks like you already found a hole in their logic.  I would keep your fight moving forward with an appeal.  You may need an IMO from a medical professional to help push it over the line.  I would still get your Lay statements and submit them when you appeal.

I would also check your C-file again as you would be surprised what is missed in them!  

You can win this, just keep asking questions as you move along!

That is the plan for now. Thanks for the encouragement!

Until I get the actual denial, Ill do some brain storming and research based on his opinion and stand fast.

Now, I understand it is possible the VARO still weighs in my favor due to the evidence I have and continuity it shows. I even mentioned in my statement the topic the examiner brought up in his opinion regarding the note about me being told my knee was the issue and no exam or imaging was done to verify. Ill be sure to upload the letter once I receive a decision.

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