I don't understand why we were told 89 y/o dad doesn't qualify for respite care...Somebody pls explain...

[msh789]

Dad is 89 years old and is rated 110% disabled. At his most recent VA visit with the nurse practitioner (he goes every 4 months, and I go with him to all his appt's),  the nurse practitioner suggested respite care,  in particular bc the VA suspended the adult day health care program due to the coronavirus. So somebody from the VA respite care called us. Now, I am my dad's 24/7 caregiver, I have been his 24/7 caregiver for over 10 years now. I get no help at all, 2 brothers refuse to help (claiming they can't, and no, it is not debatable with them, they refuse to help). I get groceries for dad, pick up his prescriptions, laundry, cook for him, clean for him, I even help him shave. I help him into and out of bed, and sometimes getting out of his chair (he has a mechanical chair that will help lift him, but he refuses, and if I try to do it, he gets very combative, to say the least...). Anyway, when this person from respite called, wouldn't you know she called on the time I was out getting groceries. I was gone barely half an hour (because dad has anxiety and borderline panic attack when left alone for an hour or so). She called and talked to dad, who told her I was simply "out"...making it sound almost like I was out partying or something...ugh...He asked her what the call was about (because he is paranoid and always been very nosy, to say the least..sorry, but I am so burned out..), and she told him it was about respite, having someone come to his house to help take care of him...OMG, I knew if he found out, her would say he doesn't need help....She still called me back about an hour later when I was home. She proceeded to tell me that dad doesn't want help, so basically too bad. She also said he doesn't need help with the ADL (like bathing, brushing his teeth and toileting...she picked all things he does pretty much on his own...) so she said he does not qualify for respite. The man cannot be by himself.  He breaks things, and him falling is a worry. Plus the panic attacks/anxiety. I really don't understand why she says he doesn't qualify. I would think him going to the adult day health care is also evident that he  can't be alone. Plus his nurse practitioner who sees him every 4 months recommended it. I have read on the va.gov site that it is also for caregivers who experience burden, and I am beyond burned out.  I guess she also said bc he refuses help, they won't come to his house. But isn't this to help the 24/7 burned out caregiver..? So then she suggested placing him in a CLC...really..?!?! I mean, she says he doesn't qualify for respite care, how would he be able to be placed in a CLC permanently..?!?! She told me to call the social worker about getting dad placed in a CLC, but I'm not sure he is 'that bad' yet...I was thinking/hoping we could get him respite care...Perhaps the respite care lady misunderstood...? Perhaps I misunderstood..??? Oh and his nurse practitioner also got him signed up to use the Wellness Center last week, so the respite care lady said 'looking at his chart, he is signed up to use the gym...'...suggesting him going to the VA gym would give me respite, but dad wants me there with him, waiting, the entire time (like everything else!!), so how is that me getting respite...?? But I feel like she must think 'if he can use a gym, he doesn't need respite'...I am so confused...Is there any way to have someone else look into this...?  Any suggestions..? The stress level is terrible...He is very combative and draining...I literally can't get away bc I worry about him falling or hurting himself (breaking things, I want to get plastic cups, but he borderline violently refuses, saying he wants to use regular glasses....insisting he can do certain things, and then he has already fallen a couple times bc he is so terribly stubborn and again borderline violently refuses refuses help...it is very sad and frustrating, to say the least...)

 

 

 

Edited March 13, 2020 by msh789

[broncovet]

As Berta said, you cant change the behaviour of others so change our behaviour towards them.  Great wisdom.  

So, apply that.  You cant stop people from coming to this meeting, BUT, you can "with wisdom and love" influence them.  Not silence, but wisdom and love.  And, dont forget the 5 P's:  Proper Preperation Prevents Poor Performance.  

So be ready "if" your brother comes with the attitude you suggested.  Dont accuse him of that attitude in the past, but be ready for it at the meeting. 

Now, I can tell you that MY father (6th grade education) had doctors and lawyers asking "HIM" for advice.  Often.  Why?  My father was a "great positional" player.  He put himself in a good position to win.  He read an enormous amount.  He learned what it took, mostly from heeding advice from those who did win.  And he prepared well.  One of his secrets:  "Questions are the answer".  

Ask key questions.  Here is an example.  Just a sample.  You could ask your brother (and your dad):  "How do you plan on continuing to administer this POA, given that you live 2 hours away?   How would you handle emergencies?  Are you prepared to take enough time off work to immediatly leave and do what is necessary to administer this POA?  

Do YOU think its a good idea to have a long distance POA?  Is this like a long distance relationship? 

Here is the deal.  People will reject YOUR ideas, but they always think THEIR ideas are great.  So, dont make it YOUR idea.  Ask their opinion, in carefully framed questions, and then you can go with "their opinion" and they will think its great.  All you do is ask the right questions.   People love to be asked "their opinion" so frame it like this:

In your opinion, do you think its a good idea to have a poa that is 2 hours away?  What about emergencies?  

Dont insult your brother.  Remember, I think it was Grover Cleveland who said, "You come at me with a doubled up fist, and I will double mine".  

You rarely get the result you want by insults and threats.  

Edited March 17, 2020 by broncovet

[msh789]

Berta and Broncovet, thank you both so, so much..I did read that when dealing with people in this type of situation, ones who try to control everything, etc, that yes, it is good to find a way to make your idea seem like THEIR idea. Broncovet, those are excellent questions in case brother or dad want to continue with things 'as they are' (which, I will believe it when I see it, but I am sticking to my guns, and if brother [and dad] wants to remain him as POA, then brother can take dad and be responsible for him as such). I do have to be prepared because I am sure brother is going to try to influence dad, and as I aid earlier, dad tends to listen to brother bc he is a boy (I am convinced dad thinks women aren't as smart) and has a law degree, so I do really have to be prepared...thank you...

Berta, excellent advice and words of wisdom. That is so interesting about the VA not vetting the doctors and hiring contractors. It explains the always constant revolving door of doctors dad has had over the years. 

One thing that may be the deterrent is I think dad will have to add my name to his checking account...Brother's name is on it now, and dad intensely dislikes changing things like that. So he may end up deciding to keep things as they are, which brother probably knows dad hates changing bank stuff, so that could be why brother seems unfazed thus far by dad saying  he is going to have me switched to the POA (and also dad already getting an appointment with the attorney...dad has a terrible habit of cancelling appointments, so I am keeping fingers and toes crossed). 

Nothing is ever easy with dad, so I have to prepare...Thanks so much, again...

[broncovet]

Ok.  Dont make Dad "go to the bank to change stuff", then.  YOU go to the bank, tell them your Dad is not well and you need the forms for him to sign so that you can take care of his finances.  This is part of the 5 p's, since you know that will cause resistance and you will be prepared.   It may help for you to have the account number, and it also may help if you have a relationship at that bank.  Do it in a non threating way:  Dad, I need to get groceries for you AGAIN this afternoon.  You know that Angel food cake you like?  Well, I need your ok on this form so that I can get it for you, and the banks wont have a tizzy for me writing checks for groceries.  (Make the bank the bad guy, not your brother).

Once they give you the forms (probably a signature card), and your dad protests "changing stuff", explain that you have taken care of that, he need only "ok" this.  "Ok" is the nice word, non threatenting, for sign it.  "I need your signature" is threating, while can you "ok" this is non threating.  "Signing" something sounds like they are getting into a contract, and immediately they are reluctant.  But, when you have already discussed it, then you just need his "ok" by writing his name down.

NOTE:  IF you have the POA and its a general POA that includes the financial aspect, then you simply take that to the bank.  Him putting your name on the account may not be necessary, check with the bank on that as I dont know your state's laws.  There are different types of POA's...general (for everything)  medical, single use (such as you give your spouse POA to sign your documents for a closing you are unable to attend to), etc.  

Now, if brother is already POA, then HE could go to the bank and add your name as a signer.  (probably).  Again, ask your brother if he wants you to interupt his business and go sign "every check" that needs signed.  If you and your brother have trust, then he should be okay with it, even if maybe you dont agree on stuff.  He probably doesnt care whether you buy groceries at Kroger or Aldi for your dad, and whether you get gas at Shell, or BP.  

Edited March 18, 2020 by broncovet

[msh789]

Okay, broncovet, I am having a brain glitch, what are 'the 5 p's'..? This all sounds wonderful, except dad is well known at the bank (I use the same bank for my own accounts) and dad actually overthinks every little thing, so he still might say no to 'okaying' it, but as you say, I may not need it as the new POA. 

Here is another little lovely aspect. When dad signed the house over to me and POA brother, the attorney told us to open a checking account so dad could write us 'rent checks'. So the POA bother opened an account so dad could 'pay rent' to my brother and I, and dad has also been putting other money into that account. That account is to be both mine and my brother's, because it was initially set up so dad could pay both of us 'rent'.  All of the money in that account was deposited by dad, or is 'rent' from dad. Dad's will has me and the POA brother splitting all of dad's assets and finances, but only the POA brother's name is on that account. This was set up back in 2004, so it's been built up to quite a nice little nest egg. When dad and I go see the attorney to change the POA, I need to ask about that, as it is the same attorney used for all the POA and living will papers.  

I think dad would also change the fiduciary to either me or the other brother, as the other brother is very local, 10 minutes away, so it would be easy for him to handle dad's fiduciary duties...but to dad, it's 'too hard' (even though us siblings do the work...). Heck, no, dad doesn't like to make things easy. *sigh* But yes, I need to speak with the attorney about all of this, not sure how things are in our state. Thanks again!!!

 

[dubadoo]

msh789

Once you get that POA, Go and talk to a Social Worker at the VA.

My dad is 100% with SMC r1. He has MS and I've been his caretaker for 10+ years now. He is 88.

The VA social worker can answer or get answers to all your questions. They can help you with the A&A or housebound questions.