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Coronavirus


jfrei
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Hope everyone is well and ok. To think we have to worry about the VA and now this crap is getting ridiculous....

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  • HadIt.com Elder

Every one has to worry about everything now. Why pick on VA? Schools are closing, kids are home and parents have to figure out what to do, college kids all over the place, stores are being raided everywhere even in places where there are few cases (NE only has 13 last I checked, statewide), etc etc. Take a deep breath. Everyone has problems right now. Im supposed to start a Federal job on the 30th, contract signed, with a start date, but it may be pushed back indefinitely. I already put in my notice at my other job and finished my two weeks there. *shrug* everyone has something to worry about right now. 

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Everyone in Delaware got the call all restaurants closed by 8 as with all liquor stores no groups over 100 gathered all gyms closed.... not picking on the VA we have all got our stories about them.

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I'm beginning to think that the health issue may be more real than first thought. Here's a different slant I received from a medical professional. 

At the request of my wife who is also in healthcare, she asked me to pass this on. Please note that we did not write this but from what we have learned this is the best explanation to what we see happening around us.
"Good evening. If you are tagged in this you are family, or very close to my family. I hope that you will take my words to heart and listen.
I have been in healthcare all my life, and now, over 30 years in, I am now an ICU nurse practitioner dealing with critical illness and life support issues. Those of you who have come to me for advice in the past know that I am a straight shooter and i have never (BS'd) you on matters of health. With that in mind...here we go.
COVID19 is here. In America. NOW. Circulating in communities, both detected and undetected. There is no stopping it. COVID19 is a respiratory illness caused by SARS-CoV2, a new (novel is the scientific word) strain of coronavirus that has emerged in humans since December 2019. It is related to the SARS virus that circulated in 2002-3. We got lucky then. Our luck is not so good this time.
It is not the flu. It doesn't feel like the flu. And it is deadlier than the flu by every measure we have undertaken in affected countries. It will make the rounds and many of us will catch it. Most of us won’t have a problem with it however... a significant number of us will get fairly sick and may need hospitalization... of those about half of those hospitalized will likely end up in the ICU and possibly on breathing machines... and of those sickest, there will be deaths. COVID19 at its best is showing a 0.8% mortality rate, which is 3x worse than the flu. That is in countries that have extensive testing and detected both the well AND unwell who are positive for the SARS-CoV2 virus, which causes the COVID19 illness.
There are 350 million folks in America, roughly. People are throwing around this number of "less than one percent". Well let me tell you: Do the math. A very small percentage of a very large number is STILL a large number.
Symptoms of the Flu involve your body feeling like everything hurts, and you got run over by a Mack truck and you just feel awful... in addition to upper respiratory symptoms.
COVID19 is different. You may or may not have a runny nose and fever. A sore throat becomes a major common finding... then it gets in the lungs. A dry, nonproductive cough is common, followed or accompanied by shortness of breath. The shortness of breath is what is triggering hospital visits, and the folks presenting to the hospitals show low oxygen levels (oxygen saturations) and chest imaging typically shows a bilateral diffuse pneumonia (Double pneumonia for the laypeople).
The only proven effective therapies are supportive- Oxygen, and positive pressure ventilation... either with a CPCP/BiPAP machine or with a mechanical ventilator attached to a breathing tube. There is no cure. Your body has to fight it off and it has to run its course. There is no Tamiflu equivalent that works for this. There are some smart medical folks out there spit balling some ideas, but nothing is proven to work. So, like every other viral illness you have gotten, you have to ride it out and hope your body is strong enough.
Babies and children are making out fairly Ok... even if they test positive, they haven’t been dying of it in China, in Italy... however healthy young adults, even athletic types, in their 30's-50's are coming in very sick and some are dying. From there, the older one is, the higher the hospitalization rates and the mortality rates.
Information out of China shows that it was killing men more than women, but one thing to note is that in China, older men are invariably tobacco smokers. Information out of Italy appears to show the obese are having a worse time with it. In general, blood pressure and diabetes are associated with higher rates of severe illness and death. In particular, people taking ACE Inhibitors or ARB's for their blood pressure (the drugs ending in "pril" like lisinopril, or "sartan" like valsartan) seem to be having a worse time. This makes sense since both of these classes of medicine affect cells in the lungs, which SARS CoV2 is thought to also affect.
The biggest danger right now, and the reason why I am writing this, and tagging you... is that this will "explode" here like it has in Italy, Iran and how it did in China.
We only have so many hospital beds. We only have so many ICU beds. We only have so many ventilators... and we only have so many trained staff who can care for the patients. If this blows up massively beyond the ability of the health care system to treat and rescue patients, people who COULD have lived will simply die.
In Italy they have an excellent national healthcare system with about 5000 ICU beds, and per capita have more doctors and hospital beds than we do here in the US. Of course, the US is bigger and has more total beds, and ventilators... but again... less per capita. In Italy, in Lombardy (the state/province) and in Milan... they have simply run out of ventilators. Doctors are faced with having too many people who can’t breathe anymore, and not enough breathing machines to put them on. They are literally deciding on the spot who might live and who will die. They aren't doing CPR or anything else futile for the COVID patients. They don’t have the staff or capacity to do so.
There's a lot more horrible stuff I could tell you about what’s happening, but the short version is this - if we exceed the capacity to manage this, people who should have lived will die.
Which brings us to here, now, in the US. COVID is here. It WILL sweep the nation. There was never anything we could have done to stop it because of the way we live and conduct business. BUT what we have to do is SLOW IT DOWN.
IF we SLOW IT DOWN, so that the number of unwell and critically ill don’t explode, and overwhelm the system, then everyone has a fighting chance. Give time for flu season to end and get flu patients out of the hospital. Give time for the first wave of COVID patients to get well enough to get out of the hospital.
So... to SLOW IT DOWN... practice frequent handwashing. Don’t touch your face, nose or eyes without washing your hands first. Frequently disinfect common surfaces.
PRACTICE SOCIAL DISTANCING. COVID LOVES A CROWD. If you are going to spread this disease around, lets spread it to only one or two people not 100 people at a time. Stay away from large groups. Let’s lay off the rodeos, the ball games, the big parties, the night clubs. Do small groups... or stay home. If you go out, and touch common surfaces, clean your hands before touching your face. On a bus in china, one person gave it to 8 other people, including one who got on 30 mins after the index case left the bus.
If you are sick, stay home. Don’t visit other vulnerable folks. If it gets in your household, accept that it’s there and try not to give it to your aunts, uncles and grandparents. Stay home, don’t go to school.
For the elders reading this. I need you to stay home as if your life depends on it. Because it very well does. Your age group is the one having the worst time with this. And if it gets bad, all I can say is that in Italy this week, if you were crashing and over 60, they didn't even consider offering a vent to them. So please, elders, STAY HOME, skip church, avoid visiting large numbers of people. Skip the lodge meeting. Skip the casino. And if you are adamant that your wings will not be clipped, then please make sure your will is updated, and you've given a copy to your kids.
Now… none of this says "panic" or "buy bottled water and toilet paper". I'm asking for everyone to take a deep breath and be smart.Quit caring about your 401k. In a year or two it will be back. The airlines and cruise lines will get bailed out. The economy is going to tank no matter what, so quit worrying about it. Right now, the decision is do we want a tanked economy with a low
body count or a high body count.We are all in this together. Wash your hands. Cover your mouth. Practice social distancing. Stay away from large crowds. Be smart. Stay home if sick. Don’t hoard or steal medical supplies. We need them desperately at the hospital."
   
 
 
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GREAT ADVICE ABOVE!

A bright spot yesterday in the News on Corona, was some success with the malaria drug ( chloroquine?)that I posted about yesterday here.

I heard Governor Cuomo's whole statement ( NY) and he had reduced public gatherings to 50 people, but later that was reduced-I think- by CDC or the Gov, to only 10 people-my church not only has to re assess  a viewing this Saturday and other future plans but also I received an email from my oil company to assure all customers that, if we need a service man in our home, due to a heater problem, they are doing all they can to safely satisfy that need.

I heard Canadaigua has it's first Corona case-They also have a large VAMC there, only about 1 1/2 hours away from me. I put my Radio show stop  sign on the deck steps.

This is an isolated farm community but I don't want any drop ins.The flu I had was bad enough.

If you had the Flu, that might still be lowering your resistance to anything.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Our Military still uses chloroquine:

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/01/08/committee-study-health-effects-malaria-drugs-taken-us-troops.html

However it can have side affects with long term use.

I believe this is the study that  Mil.com and S & S links were to- I posted that info here the other day.

A woman I know reads the "dark web" and anything apocalyptic she can find, on the Web.

She has enough water, sugar, coffee, flour, dog food,  etc etc possibly for years, as she fears the "End of Days" and like all of us boonies, she has a weapon- but the truth is everyone knows she hoards excessive foods, and even purchased those meals on line , that last for 25 years.

She would be the first person hit on , around here, for theft or even death, if we really had an apocalyptic food shortage.

She tried for years to tell me not to get the FLU vaccine as she claimed it was killing Americans, as well as the pneumonia shots. Last time I told her to mind her own business and never spke to her again.

The medical fact is that the FLU is killing thousands of Americans every year.

 

 

 

Edited by Berta
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  • HadIt.com Elder

“Showing promise” is not the same as proven effective when reading a published study- I’m a grad student and I’ve read hundreds. The wording is overly formal but it all means something. 
 

China didn’t human test they just dumped it on the population. If you read the whole study you’ll also find that chloroquine can cause stuffed effects like blindness and it can induce viral mutation. THATS why it’s not just given it to anyone.

The study noted serious side effects to the use of chloroquine as a treatment.

The study also reads: “One often cited side effect is chloroquine retinopathy, which can result in permanent vision loss after high cumulative doses of chloroquine.

“However, retinal damage is extremely rare in patients with a total dosage under 400g (dosage level only reached after years of treatment).”

The study also noted treating COVID-19 carries the risk of inducing a viral mutation that “can either be beneficial or harmful to humans”.”

 

 

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Brokensoldier:

     No doubt there are side effects to chloroquine.  But are there not "side effects" to being on the alternative, being on a ventilator?  Isnt it true that being on a Ventilator increases risks of infections, sepsis, and a vast array of other problems with cutting a hole in your throat and shoving a tube down it?  

     Im not a doctor, but it would appear that the side effects of chloroquinine, are mild compared to being put on a ventilator.  

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  • HadIt.com Elder

Sure, but again, the wording of a 'study' that is being quoted as 'showing promise' is NOT the same as 'proven effective' in a mass case scenario. Do you want tens of thousands of US citizens being guinea pigs for a drug that is only published about in 2-3 studies, that hasn't been mass tested? I sure as hell don't. I have a friend that works with USAMRIID and John's Hopkins. if it was an effective treatment he'd know about it- and he's not jumping on this wagon either until there is more testing to ensure that the young and the old are not negatively affected by it. 

https://factcheck.afp.com/chloroquine-has-not-been-approved-treatment-covid-19

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If I have a choice between chloroquine, and cutting a hole in my throat and putting me on a ventilator, I will chose chlorquine each time.  I cant see how it ever makes sense to cut holes in peoples throats while witholding medication that quite possibly may work.  If it doesnt work, then cut a hole in my throat and put me on a ventilator.  Being on a Ventilator should NEVER be "the treatment of choice" when there is an alternative.  

Im sure its more about politics and money than how effective the treatment really is..as is often the case in medicine.  If they do withold chlorquine and cut a hole in my throat instead, Im gonna tell my spouse to sue the doctor and the hospital.  While I never have been on a ventilator, I have met many people who have and there is not much worse...than being strapped down, with a hole in your throat with a machine that makes you breathe when it thinks you need a breath, not when you do.  Its horrifying!  

The companies that make ventilators, and hospitals that seek to benefit from super expensive ventilator care must be licking their chops, just waiting for those huge checks to start rolling in!  Of course, this chloroquine treatment is widely available and at low cost, so lets cut holes in millions of peoples throats so that medical companies and hospitals can make a killing..at our expense.  

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  • HadIt.com Elder

Then your suit will be dismissed because choloquine is NOT A VIABLE MEDICAL TREATMENT FOR CORONA VIRUS. It funny how the Chinese get the brunt of xenophobia yet now based on some barely founded rumor that hasn't been widely tested (and chloro is not even a very effective MALARIA treatment, either) suddenly China is trusted to have the cure for this? 

 

There IS quite a lot of debate over the effectiveness of chloroquine, its just not in THAT study because its not relevant. Studies of treatment of malaria have debated the limited effectiveness of chloroquine for years. 

 

"chloroquine has been banned in Nigeria since 2005 after a WHO recommendation warned of high treatment failures and drug resistance in some parts of the world. It is still being used in South Africa but is not recommended as primary treatment for malaria due to high resistance."

https://factcheck.afp.com/chloroquine-has-not-been-approved-treatment-covid-19

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I appreciate Berta's and GB Army's advice.  Its good, no great.  But, I do have a glaringly obvious question.  

GB's wife posted  (and this is consistent with other conventional medical viewpoints):

Quote

The only proven effective therapies are supportive- Oxygen, and positive pressure ventilation... either with a CPCP/BiPAP machine or with a mechanical ventilator attached to a breathing tube. There is no cure.

Now, please, Im not calling out GBArmy's wife, here.  I appreciate her informing us of how the medical community is responding.  However, there is an "effective treatment" for Covid-19:  Chlorquine.  So why are doctors not giving this to those infected, and instead are putting these people on ventilators????  There isnt a lot of debate that chlorquine works, either.  

Read this study by Stanford University:  https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTi-g18ftNZUMRAj2SwRPodtscFio7bJ7GdNgbJAGbdfF67WuRJB3ZsidgpidB2eocFHAVjIL-7deJ7/pub

     I read that, because this (chloroquine) came from research in South Korea, American doctors wont prescribe it, even tho it works.  Are doctors killing Americans?  Is this a way to get rid of those not healthy and over 60?  

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