Technical question, claims processing

[Rivet62]

I worked as a civilian federal employee at a VAMC. I thought that my employment records would be a breeze for HR, to fill out the VA Form 21-4192 (REQUEST FOR EMPLOYMENT INFORMATION IN CONNECTION WITH CLAIM FOR DISABILITY BENEFITS)...for my TDIU claim.  And besides, the VHA is under the VA and the VBA is under the VA. Right? 

 I could just lean back with my arms crossed and my feet propped up and let the records play out on their own.  Easy.

Oh no it isn't easy..

The most important positions I have held, and most recent positions I have held, that support my TDIU claim are with this VAMC where I worked.

My employment records are no longer STORED at the VAMC where I worked.  In fact, the VAMC where I was employed cannot even verify that I worked there.  Why?  Because upon employee separation they send all the records up to the National Personnel Records Center and it gets stored at the Office of Personnel Management in my Official Personnel Folder. On top of that, the old VISTA computer program has been replaced and whatever they could have retrieved is no longer accessible, this according to Payroll.

In other words, there is no one to fill out the VA Form 21-4192, and all that can be had is a big thick folder of scans maybe. And we see how long it's taking to get our military records because of Covid...  It would take months and months if ever.

So, I had an idea.  I could fill the form out myself, unsigned. I could scan all of my  leave and earnings statements, provide a summary of the totals that the Evidence Intake Center is looking for, along with the supporting documents (the leave and earnings statements, the personnel records I have on hand, my employee health records, and my patient records at the VAMC at the time.

I would fill out VA Form 4192, to organize the information that the Evidence Intake Center is looking for, and include the supporting documents... all of it inside one PDF, and upload that as VA Form 21-4192.

My Question is, will a worker at the Evidence Intake Center discard the supporting documents inside the PDF and just process the VA Form 21-4192?  Or are they apt to discard the whole thing?

In other words, are the tasks so segmented that they have a person just process VA Form 21-4192s all day long and just that? I remember when I applied for a position processing medical records requests all day long at the VAMC and that's all they did, scanning one request after another all day long.

I want to upload the mock VA Form 21-4192, stating the type of upload as VA Form 21-4192, so I can fulfill the documents Request on VA.gov for the last employer I worked at.

To complicate matters, I worked at 3 different consecutive positions at the VAMC, but the document request I see for VA Form 21-4192 appears just once. for the last employer I worked at.

So I thought to add 3 of these mock VA Forms 21-4192,, all of the same employer but different positions, and the supporting documents in sequential order, all inside one PDF.

I guess the better way to ask the question is, has anyone included additional documentation along with a VA Form 21-4192 in the upload for VA Form 21-4192?

 

Maybe I could upload a statement in the upload for VA Form 21-4192, showing that the PDF is uploaded in "Other". Maybe that's the best way.

Maybe the best way to do this is to mail the whole thing to the Evidence Intake Center and pray that the individual documents do not get misplaced and lost? Ha!

I wonder if I can make an appointment with my nearest VARO to deal with this, to get a contact name and number for someone with authority at the Evidence Intake Center?

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by Rivet62

[Rivet62]

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Edited February 13, 2022 by Rivet62

[Rivet62]

8 hours ago, Rivet62 said:

I wonder if I can make an appointment with my nearest VARO to deal with this, to get a contact name and number for someone with authority at the Evidence Intake Center?

There's a VARO rep that comes to my area twice a week on appointment only. I think I'll make an appointment with him on this.

[Rivet62]

On 2/12/2022 at 9:57 AM, Rivet62 said:

I wonder if I can make an appointment with my nearest VARO to deal with this, to get a contact name and number for someone with authority at the Evidence Intake Center?

 

I spoke to the VARO rep, by phone and he confirmed a few things for me. First, he said that the Evidence Intake Center just processes the VA Form 21-4192. That's all they do. The most important thing he said is that the VBA can see patient records at the VA, and they can see employee health records and personnel records in the "CAPRIS" and that requires what he called the "Special 7" access, which VBA has in the processing of my claim.

Even so, I am uploading my PDF package into "Other" in the VA.gov upload title for my TDIU claim.

[broncovet]

You posted:

Quote

My Question is, will a worker at the Evidence Intake Center discard the supporting documents inside the PDF and just process the VA Form 21-4192?  Or are they apt to discard the whole thing?

Great question.  Unfortunately, "if you can predict" what a VA employee "will do" when xy event happens, then you should buy lottery tickets, because no one knows what a person will do for sure, when xy event occurs.  

Supposedly, all evidence sent to the intake center is "scanned" and linked with the Veterans file.  Yea, right, this happens perfectly every single time..there are never any mistakes, ever....not quite.  

You did it right.  You included the information.   YOurs, is "not" the first employer to not want to verify employment, for many many reasons.  

1.  Many compaines fail, and go out of business.  

2.  As you have seen many other companies "dont want" to disclose private Employee records..even with permission.  Example:  Lets say I worked there..did not get along with my boss.  I was eventaully pressured into signing a resignation letter.  Did I resign, or did I get fired?  Well being "pressured into resigning" could well be interpreted as a firing, and this opens up a whole can of legal problems virtually all companies or agencies want to avoid like the plague.  

So, they supply as little information as possible, with the first choice being "none"..just dont respond at all.  

    However, the VA can not deny tdiu, based solely on your (former employer) failing to fill out the applicable form and sending it to VA.  My experience has been most companies dont want to go there.  It has "lawsuit" written all over it, no matter what the company says.  

    I dont think a single "former employer" returned my form to VA.  Companies, and agencies are very well aware of legal liablitities, and avoid it.  

    Just proceed with your tdiu claim, as social security should be able to confirm dates/companies you worked for..as long as this company was on the up and up and sent the earnings to social security.  If your neighbor paid you 20 bucks to cut the grass, tho, dont expect him to send that to social security.  

    In short< "dont sweat" not sending in the form, just proceed.  

[Rivet62]

UPDATE ON THIS TOPIC:

For anyone out there seeking definitive information on VBA's access to your past federal employment records, short of having to do a records request from the National Personnel Records Center or Office of Personnel Management (which could take months in the current conditions of Covid-19), the following is an official web publication by the Department of Veterans Affairs which details the CAPRI system that VBA uses to see your records. CAPRI is short for Compensation and Pension Record Interchange (CAPRI) System.

I have been told by a VARO rep that the VBA can see personnel records, including employee health records, for the processing of claims.

Below is a link to the Administration and Technical Guide for CAPRI.

https://www.va.gov/vdl/documents/Financial_Admin/CAPRI/DVBA_27_224_Sys_Adm.pdf   October 2020

https://www.va.gov/vdl/documents/Financial_Admin/CAPRI/dvba_2_7_tm.pdf   January 2022.

Be sure to look for the most recent revision concerning CAPRI, as it may become obsolete in the future.

 

Not leaving anything to chance, I compiled my own records and uploaded it into VA.gov for my TDIU claim.

 

Edited February 16, 2022 by Rivet62
Updated link to include January 2022 revision

[Rivet62]

FURTHER UPDATE:

It appears VA accepted my mock VA Form 21-4192, together with all the employee records I had, as fulfilling their request for VA Form 21-4192 from my last federal employer. Now when I look at the list of files that I uploaded it shows them as VA Form 21-4192s, meaning that I satisfied the requests for VA Form 21-4192s even though I couldn't get them from all the employers. I had kept very good records, and I was able to upload those in place of VA Forms 21-4192s.