How To Rate Non-service ?

[Winvet234]

Winvet234 <script type=text/javascript> ipsmenu.register( "post-member-2359", '', 'popmenubutton-new', 'popmenubutton-new-out' ); How to rate non-service?, Today, 12:19 PM

I'm doing all this for my husband and haven't got a lot of help from his DAV rep. My husband is paranoid schzophrenic and suffers with severe tinnitis. He receives 10% for the tinnitis, but have not been able to locate records about treatment for mental problems while in service. As the tinnitis worsened, his mental state went completely downhill. He has been thru the hearing with the BVA and was approved. But when he got the letter in Aug. of last year, they decided in Oct. of last year to reexamine his mental state. Despite many letter letters from psychytrist and hospitalized twice at VA, and testimony thru the hearings, they came back this month with a 10% rating for the mental condition aggravating the tinnitis.

However, the GAF rating by the examiner in Oct last year gave him a 40 rating in functioning. Then they said he was totally unable to work and would be this way even if there was no tinnitis. So it's like saying regardless if you didn't have tinnitis,you are still unable to work and contends that the rating of 10% effect was warranted and that they were liberal in giving the rating.

They are proposing that he be unable to handle his affairs and needs to be declared imcompetent. They want him to decide who would he want to handle his affairs. Which I have for the last 40 years. But my question is this: how can you declare someone incompetent and rate him with 10% for the mental Disability.?

It's like they ignored what his psychrist letters say and other doctors. How would the 40 Gaf rating chive with 10%? He does receive 10% for tinnitis and 10% skin problems.

In my research of the 38 CFR, I used 4.130, 4.126. and (3.3l0 for non-service condition that aggravates his service connected illness). When I go to the 4.130, it shows 100%, 70%, 60% and 30%. when I look at the symptoms, he has all but very few. What do they use to rate with? I know there's another complicated one to come up with a combined one, but I fail to see how this would apply. Sorry to be so long winded, but need some help in understanding how they rate. I have gotten very little help from DAV, First the first rep. that we had went somewhere else, and the one who we can't get our calls returned back. It's frustrating and he has been unemployed for 10 years.He left civil service because of functions being eliminated in his company.He fits totally the symptoms for the mental illness, but he tried very hard to not show it in the army and when he worked in civil service. He mostly stayed to himself, done his job, had no friends, is a loner.But the real stressors really affects him.Is it worth trying to fight this anymore? His claim is now going on 6 years. They make you feel when they interview you that things are looking good and they will do all they can when they examine you, but then when it come back, it was a surprise. The first DAV rep. said he couldn't see why they couldn't rate him any less than 100% disability. When we first started out, I was handling it all and then and was using the mental illness claim as service connected, but the DAV rep. said it was best to do the claim as non-service connected with aggravating circumstances to the already service connected tinnitis.

Anyway. Anybody out there had simlar problems? Would appreciate any ideas if we should fight this thing or what. My husband gave the service 9 years. 1 in Vietnam and 1 in Korea. During those days you didn't dare admit that you had a mental problem. But as his wife of 40 years, I know him his long history. I picked up on right after he returned from Nam. Any suggestions are appreciated. There are some great educational issues on this site. Thank God. will accept emails.maylincar23@yahoo.com

[Vike17]

Winvet234,

I'm goingto try and make some sense of your husbands situation, so bear with me.

Apparently your husband has service-connected ratings of 10% mental disorder, 10% skin condition, and 10% tinnitus, which combine to 27% rounded to 30%, is this correct?

From what you posted, it appears the BVA awarded service-connection for your husband's mental disaorder as secondary to his tinnitus at 10%, as they were unable to award direct service-connection because of lack of medical evidence of a mental condition while in the service, is this correct?

As far as the 10% rating for his mental disorder and having a GAF score of 40, and the VA saying he is unable to work and is incompetent just doesn't add up. The GAF score is actually a non factor in the actual rating, it is just a tool to see where that particular person is on any given day. Does your husband receive Social Security Disability? If so, does the VA know this? This whole senario just doesn't make any sense as you presented it.

You posted that this has been to the BVA, so that means there have been numerous people that have looked at this claim. Things just don't add up. If you could post the BVA decisions docket number. I can take a look at it on the VA's website. Then I'll be able to get a better picture of what has transpired and to try and explain what and why things have been decided the way they were. I might even be able to tell you if there has been any errors in their decision and then be able to direct you in the right direction.

Vike 17

[Berta]

Could it be the VA is saying he has NSC schizophrenia rated as aggravated by the tinnitus-only to degree of 10% -yet his schizophrenia -other than the secondary rating -is still NSC?

"Then they said he was totally unable to work and would be this way even if there was no tinnitis. So it's like saying regardless if you didn't have tinnitis,you are still unable to work and contends that the rating of 10% effect was warranted and that they were liberal in giving the rating."

Because they are saying the mental disorder is NSC-and remains NSC- that is my take on it-

'It's like they ignored what his psychrist letters say and other doctors"

Does he have mental health issues or treatment for anything at all like that in his SMRs? How about his service personnel records- any bad paper stuff like discipline problems that could have been symptomatic of the Schizophrenia?

Did the doctors make any statements as to a potential service nexus for

his schizophrenia?

If the SC tinnitus was the sole etiology or cause of his schizophrenia and he cannot work due to it-then I think he should have higher rating for the schizophrenia.

They seem to have rated an affect of SC to NSC condition.

Does the tinnitus make any audial hallucinations worse then they are?

VA says the affect is only 10%- medical evidence might well show more then that-were these private IMos?

Would they be willing to write updated IMOs?

But better yet- is there any way at all he can find a nexus or link to his service-that would show his schizophrenia is due to service as well as SC tinnitus?

[saltydawg]

maybe he should claim PTSD.

[Vike17]

Saltydawg,

Claiming PTSD actually wouldn't do anything, he's already rated for a mental disorder and they are all rated by the same criteria. Actually if he claimed PTSD, then he would have to prove an in-service stressor, have shrink diagnose him with PTSD which would probably come into conflict with his current menatl diagnosis, and then he would need a shrink to make the connection beteewn the inservice stressor and a PTSD diagnosis.

Vike 17

[Pete53]

I am sorry that your husband suffers from the Paranoid Schizophrenia> From my understanding the fact he served 9 years should make it rather easy for a decent Doc to link it to his Service Years.

What you need is a Doctors Opinion that would say he has the illness, it has caused him problems since his service and that it started during Service or was aggravated by service. It is unlikely the Military would have accepted him with the symptoms.

Good Luck

[Winvet234]

Winvet234,

I'm goingto try and make some sense of your husbands situation, so bear with me.

Apparently your husband has service-connected ratings of 10% mental disorder, 10% skin condition, and 10% tinnitus, which combine to 27% rounded to 30%, is this correct? Yes that's correct.

From what you posted, it appears the BVA awarded service-connection for your husband's mental disaorder as secondary to his tinnitus at 10%, as they were unable to award direct service-connection because of lack of medical evidence of a mental condition while in the service, is this correct? Yes you are correct.

As far as the 10% rating for his mental disorder and having a GAF score of 40, and the VA saying he is unable to work and is incompetent just doesn't add up. The GAF score is actually a non factor in the actual rating, it is just a tool to see where that particular person is on any given day. Does your husband receive Social Security Disability? If so, does the VA know this? This whole senario just doesn't make any sense as you presented it. Answer:No, he never tried for SS disability. Because he had the claim with the VA still going.

You posted that this has been to the BVA, so that means there have been numerous people that have looked at this claim. Things just don't add up. If you could post the BVA decisions docket number. I can take a look at it on the VA's website. Then I'll be able to get a better picture of what has transpired and to try and explain what and why things have been decided the way they were. I might even be able to tell you if there has been any errors in their decision and then be able to direct you in the right direction. Answer: 28735034

Vike 17

Vike: thanks for responding. I inserted answers to your questions in the body of your message. Thanks a lot.

After complaining about the DAV being slow about call me back, I finally spoke with one of the reps. and indicated that they wanted me to send a form re. dependents. don't have it in front of me. He says that they want to get the ball rolling about starting his compensation for back pay. This goes back to 2001. When I mentioned the GAF rating not making sense, he said he hadn't seen it, but was going to be discussing this further. Appreciate any advice you can offer. Winvet234

[Winvet234]

Could it be the VA is saying he has NSC schizophrenia rated as aggravated by the tinnitus-only to degree of 10% -yet his schizophrenia -other than the secondary rating -is still NSC? YES THEY ARE CONSIDERING THE SCHIZOPHRENIA AS NSC. HE WENT TO THE DOCTOR IN 1971 IN KOREA BECAUSE OF HIS NERVES, BUT THEY COULDN'T FIND ANYTHING IN HIS SERVICE RECORDS.

"Then they said he was totally unable to work and would be this way even if there was no tinnitis. So it's like saying regardless if you didn't have tinnitis,you are still unable to work and contends that the rating of 10% effect was warranted and that they were liberal in giving the rating."

Because they are saying the mental disorder is NSC-and remains NSC- that is my take on it- THAT'S THE WAY IT SOUNDS IN THE BVA LETTER.

'It's like they ignored what his psychrist letters say and other doctors"

Does he have mental health issues or treatment for anything at all like that in his SMRs? How about his service personnel records- any bad paper stuff like discipline problems that could have been symptomatic of the Schizophrenia? WHEN I TRIED TO GET HIS MEDICAL RECORDS IN ST. LOUIS, THEY COULDN'T FIND ANYTHING RELATED TO MENTAL. IS THE SERVICE PERSONNEL RECORDS A SEPARATE FILE? HE HASN'T SEEN THE FULL FILE SINCE HE PUT IN HIS CLAIM IN 2001. I'M NOT AWARE OF ANY DISCIPLINE PROBLEMS. HE WAS PRETTY MUCH A LONER AND WANTED TO STAY IN THE SERVICE AND GOT OUT ONCE, THEN WENT BACK IN, SO HE HAS A TOTAL OF 9 YEARS.

Did the doctors make any statements as to a potential service nexus for

his schizophrenia? I'M NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND WHAT NEXUS IS, BUT THE DOCTORS WHO TREATED HIM IN 2000 WHILE HE WAS HOSPITALIZED ON TWO OCCASIONS CONFIRMED THE MENTAL ILLNESS.

If the SC tinnitus was the sole etiology or cause of his schizophrenia and he cannot work due to it-then I think he should have higher rating for the schizophrenia. WHEN HE GOT OUT OF THE SERVICE HE WORKED IN CIVIL SERVICE UNTIL THEY STARTED CLOSING/ELIMINATING FUNCTIONS OR TRANSFERRING FUNCTIONS. WHILE IN CIVIL SERVICE, THE TINNITIS GOT SO MUCH WORSE, THEN IT MADE HIS MENTAL ILLNESS A LOT WORSE. I HAVE NO DOUBT AT ALL THAT THE TINNITIS AGGRAVATED HIS MENTAL ILLNESS TO THE POINT THAT HE HASN'T WORKED IN 10 YEARS. HE WAS NEVER THE SAME AFTER HE CAME HOME FROM VIETNAM, BUT HE JUST LIVED WITH IT AND WOULDN'T GET TREATED. I SUPPOSE AS HE GOT MUCH OLDER THAN HIS DISEASE WORSENED OR AT LEAST THAT'S THE WAY IT ENDED UP.

They seem to have rated an affect of SC to NSC condition.

Does the tinnitus make any audial hallucinations worse then they are? HE'S SUFFERED SEVERE HALLUCINATIONS UNTIL THEY GOT HIM ON MEDICINE, BUT HE'S STILL VERY PARANOID AND VERY HARD TO DEAL WITH.

VA says the affect is only 10%- medical evidence might well show more then that-were these private IMos? YES, HE SUBMITTED LETTERS FROM HIS PRIVATE PSYCHYRIST AND THERE ARE LETTERS IN HIS RECORDS SUPPOSEDLY FROM HIS VA DOCTORS WHO TREATED HIM WHILE IN THE VA HOSP.

Would they be willing to write updated IMOs? YES, HE HAS UPDATE LETTERS. HE WAS REEXAMINED TWO OR THREE TIMES , TWO OF WHICH WERE AFTER THE BVA APPROVAL.

But better yet- is there any way at all he can find a nexus or link to his service-that would show his schizophrenia is due to service as well as SC tinnitus? I WISH I HAD KEPT ALL OF HIS LETTERS THAT HE WROTE ME WHILE IN VIETNAM AND KOREA. I COULD TELL THAT HE WAS EXTREMELY STRESSED, BUT HE NEVER TOLD ME ABOUT AN INCIDENT THAT HAPPENED IN KOREA THAT CAUSED HIM TO SEEK MEDICAL HELP FOR HIS NERVES UNTIL YEARS LATER HIS BROTHER ASK ME IF I KNEW ABOUT IT, WHICH I DIDN'T. HE HID A LOT OF HIS PROBLEMS, BUT I COULD TELL SOMETHING WASN'T RIGHT WITH HIM. I TESTIFIED TO THAT, BUT DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH THEY BELIEVED.

I APPRECIATE YOUR INTEREST, BERTHA, LOOKS LIKE YOU AND OTHERS HAVE A LOT OF KNOWLEDGE IN THIS. THANKS AGAIN. WINVET234

[Berta]

The BVA web site has been down -hopefully they are adding the first quarter of 2007 cases-

I havent found the case yet that you mentioned-

The nexus- what I mean is the proof -inservice and cocumented- that your husband exhibited manifestations of schizophrenia.

This is way I asked about discipline records- decades ago if a service person exhibited a mental disorder they were often written up or thrown into a stockade or a brig-for irratic behavior that could well have been inservice mental disorder.

If the SMRs and all personnel reocrds do not reveal anything that wouls show symptoms of schizophrenia -he will need a buddy statement- an eyewitness account that he exhibited symptoms of this disability- inservice.

The VA can help vets find buddys-if the buddy is in the VA health care system-

with a letter telling the VARO who you are looking for and when and where they served with you-

and with a stamped self addressed envelop enclosed-also with you husbands name on it-

he can write a brief letter to the veteran, telling them how to contact him and the VA-if this vet can be found in their data base-

will forward your husbands letter-

it is up to the vet he is trying to find to contact him-

also many Units- especially Vietnam units-and Korean War vets have web sites-

The Korean War Project is one of the best

He will have to determine where and when he could have exhibited symptoms of schizophrenia and then try to contact a buddy via VA and also through these web sites- regarding his unit.

If he had any medical attention at all for schizophrenia in service he needs to do all he can to find those records.

I dont know what branch he was in -but if Navy or Marine Corps-

they should have sent from St Louis his SRB-Service Record Book-

with the SRB and especially the SMRs-there could well be someone whose name would ring a bell with him and he could attempt to find them-

I would start with his company commanders.

He has to be specific as to what he whats them to be eyewitness of-

he has to define specific incidents such as any medical care at all from any corpsman, hospital, MASH- etc-

or any incident -inservice- of unusual behavior that could have been symptomatic of his present disability.

This is the nexus-

the proof of his claim as it is the proof that his service experience

contained the cause of his present disability.

[Berta]

PS- forgot to add- you said "THEY" are saying there is nothing in his SMRs.

If "they" is the VA -I never buy that-

I found in some local vets SMRs exactly what the VA said was Not there---

the Nexus they needed to their service.

A vet should get the SMRs themselves and go over them very carefully.

They might have to be blown up on the PC and I have even read some SMRs using a mirror to decifer what they said-

If you find nothing in them to help= that is one thing-

I never believe it if the VA says that.