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Unit (ship) Combat Awards

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Chuck75

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  • HadIt.com Elder

Do the circumstances/awards below entitle me to be considered as a "Combat Veteran" under the VA regs? I have previously met the "VA "Feet on Ground" rule in the initial compensation claim, and received a 10% compensation award.

In the fall/winter of 1967, I served as part of the crew on an LST assigned as a support ship. We were a part of the "River Rats" or Mobile Riverene Force, TF117.

(Operated in the rivers and Delta of Vietnam) In 1968 I was transferred to another ship, an LSMR. This vessel provided "close in" fire support along the entire coast of Vietnam.

As a result, for the time that I was on the crew, the ships were awarded:

LST

CR 11-DEC-1967

NU 20-AUG-1967 16-JAN-1968

RG 24-AUG-1967 01-SEP-1967

13-NOV-1967 29-NOV-1967

26-DEC-1967 02-JAN-1968

VS 1 June 1967 - 29 January 1968

LSMR

NU 01-SEP-1968

VS 04-FEB-1968 21-MAR-1968 30-APR-1968

11-JUN-1968 18-JUL-1968

CR Combat Action Ribbon

NU Navy Unit Commendation

VS Vietnam Service Medal

RG Republic of Vietnam Meritorious Unit Citation - Gallantry

Edited by Chuck75
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  • HadIt.com Elder
The Combat Action Ribbon, CAR is an INDIVIDUAL award and not awarded to UNITS, SHIPS, or anything else as a group. If the CAR is on your DD-214 it was awarded to you as an individual as were the other members of your Riverine Force which is listed as a qualifier in the DoD reg that covered the combat circumstances and what is needed to qualify for the individual award.

The CAR is a conceded STRESSOR and is a COMBAT AWARD.

See attached SECNAV Instruction for Combat Action Criteria.

RockyA1911, I wasn't able to open your link - don't have the software but I did a search and this link shows it being awarded to ships. http://usmilitary.about.com/library/milinf...ombataction.htm Additionally, here's a link to the USS Wisconsin's awards and it lists the CAR. http://www.usswisconsin.org/Ship's%20A...39;s_awards.htm

Edited by Philip Rogers
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  • HadIt.com Elder

"The Combat Action Ribbon, CAR is an INDIVIDUAL award and not awarded to UNITS, SHIPS, or anything else"

The CAR CAN be awarded to a ship. I have Navy friend that I helped with claim. The USS Princeton was awarded a CAR on 3/27/67. We sent for a DD215 & it shows CAR on the DD215. With that evidence we submitted to the VA. After his C & P he was awarded 100% P&T in 8 days. Before that, all he had was a Pension. Mike Harris is the person that pointed this out to me. I know that none of you know me, but I think most people will remember Mike Harris. I sent him a thank you & found out he is helping dozens of vets,just like he did on HADIT.

Don Evans

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  • HadIt.com Elder
"The Combat Action Ribbon, CAR is an INDIVIDUAL award and not awarded to UNITS, SHIPS, or anything else"

The CAR CAN be awarded to a ship. I have Navy friend that I helped with claim. The USS Princeton was awarded a CAR on 3/27/67. We sent for a DD215 & it shows CAR on the DD215. With that evidence we submitted to the VA. After his C & P he was awarded 100% P&T in 8 days. Before that, all he had was a Pension. Mike Harris is the person that pointed this out to me. I know that none of you know me, but I think most people will remember Mike Harris. I sent him a thank you & found out he is helping dozens of vets,just like he did on HADIT.

Don Evans

Don, Mike's a great guy!!! He's still tirelessly helping vets but as you know has moved on from here, at Hadit. Couple of years back we had lunch together, in his hometown. I'm thinking when they award it to a ship all on that ship, at that time, get the award?? Sounds logical to me.

pr

Edited by Philip Rogers
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If the CAR is on your DD-214 it was awarded to you

You missed this part of my statement quoted above. Further a Ship, Unit, etc. do not get DD-214's PERIOD. Again, I state "If the CAR is on your DD-214, it is a CONCEDED STRESSOR."

On my recent rating decision in Jan 07, it specifically states for PTSD and TINNITUS of which I received 50% PTSD and 10% Tinnitus "Your DD-214, Armed Forces of the United States Report of Transfer or Discharge documents your receipt of a Combat Action Ribbon, therefore an in-service stressor is CONCEDED."

Just Sayin' No need to conjure up the haints if you don't have to if you have a combat medal or award on your DD-214.

I did not at any time write or have to provide a stressor letter nor did I have to provide and stressor statements when I had the C&P.

Veteran's with Combat Medals/Ribbons that are documented on their DD-214 do not have to go through any of that stressor statement/letter, proof, investigation, and all that other stuff period. I didn't and I got 50% for PTSD and 10% for Tinnitus based on my receipt of CAR on my DD-214.

Some think the more stressors they can come up with, the more their rating evaluation will be. NOT TRUE. A stressor is a stressor and you only need either a Combat Award on your DD-214 and if you don't you must provide stressor that can be verified. The VA cares not how many firefights and such when it comes to a VET with documented COMBAT AWARD or AWARDS, that is it, all the rest is moot and means nothing. The STRESSOR IS CONCEDED.

What you receive the rating evaluation for with PTSD is HOW IT AFFECTS YOUR LIFE CURRENTLY TODAY and NOT HOW MANY STRESSOR OR HOW MUCH COMBAT YOU EXPERIENCED. With a CAR/Award alone, it meets the stressor requirement, and if you have a diagnosis of PTSD, that is it PERIOD.

Don't get hung up on stressor statemnts at all if you have a documented combat award/medal.

To answer the original question. If the CAR was awarded to the Ship....No that does not qualify as stressor. If the CAR is on your DD-214, it does qualify as a CONCEDED stressor.

Edited by RockyA1911
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  • HadIt.com Elder

To answer your Question.

On the ships I served on-- officers got individual awards, enlisted did not as a general rule. One exception was a "dud man" who was awarded a silver star by a visiting admiral. Vitrually all the individual awards given were originated by someone outside the ship's direct chain of command.

Some problems: Example- We were generally not allowed to return fire, since we carried the river rats ammunition as cargo, along with about 100 river rats (boat crews) When we did return fire, usually our rounds went through such things as sampans or light structures, and exploded in the water or sand on the other side.

We came under sustained mortar fire while making an amphibious landing and offloading troups at Cau Viet. (The shp's bow is grounded on a sand beach and the bow doors and ramp are open and down.)

The mortar fire forced us to pull away from the beach more than once.

One LSMR incident was a case of an off shore tin can taking fire from inland in a artillery dual. We pulled in between the tin can and the shore, much closer to the shore than anything else. A spotter gave us fire coords, and we salvoed. No more return fire from inland was the direct result. Basically, a tin can can fire about six or less 5" rounds at a time. Our salvos, about six to ten seconds or so apart, could consist of up to sixteen 5" rockets at a time. And this from a ship that is about half the size of a tin can.

The reason I asked was that my 214 shows only a VS with stars. (why?)

My records were not updated when I was transferred from one ship to another on very short notice. (Less than 24 hours). Next, late in the same year,I was in a navy hospital in Japan for 31 days, due to an operation and recovery time. Since I was usnr, not usn, I then fell under a mandatory early out program, and was sent from the navy hospital in Japan stateside for early seperation. (18 months + instead of 24) If the combat action ribbon is a qualifying award, then I suppose it's worth the trouble to use the DD 149 to correct my 214, Or submit a copy of the award obtained from whoever has it. (Navy Historical, etc.)

Really, this has nothing directly to do with PTSD. Instead, it involves an injury and aggrivation of it. From what I've found out so far, the coreman on the first ship did not transfer ship's sick bay treatment records to the individual's records in a timely manner. The combination of several medical problems, all of which can in theory be service connected, forced me to retire early, at 61, rather than the standard SS retirement age of 67 for my age group.

Navy personel generally do not get a CIB, they get a combat ribbon, or other awards. A navy unit commendation may refer to combat actions under fire. A CIB can be awarded if navy sailors are serving as part of a unit that is normally awarded a CIB. It really got messy from a technical standpoint, since the river rats were a multiple service group.

Chuck-I dont understand the question either-

Since you already have the 10% for "boots on ground"-AO disability- then anything secondary to that should be claimed.

You asked something else that I have always wondered about-

If the ship got the CIB -does that necessarily mean the servicepersonnel onboard at time of the CIB event-got it too?

Do you have the CIB in your DD 214?

If not you could send the VA a DD 149-( I posted the form here before) and have your DD 214 corrected to show any awards that might not be on it-

Otherwise for PTSD nexus- the stressor would have to be proven.and current diagnosis and treatment records will be needed.

Edited by Chuck75
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  • HadIt.com Elder

The research on combat related awards is getting to be a bigger effort than I thought. Besides the combat ribbon, The NU was also awarded. Now, because of the language following below, I have to find out/document exactly what the NU was awarded for. I suspect in this case, that the NU was awarded for combat support, not actual combat.

Navy Unit Commendation

Awarded by the Secretary of the Navy to any unit the Navy or Marine Corps which has distinguished itself by outstanding heroism in action against the enemy, but not sufficient to justify the award of the Presidential Unit Citation; or to any such unit which has distinguished itself by extremely meritorious service not involving combat but in support of military operations, rendering the unit outstanding compared to other units performing similar service. To justify this award, the unit must have performed service of the character comparable to that which would merit the award of a Silver Star Medal for heroism.

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