Dtomlinson

I was not wounded in combat. I am kind of on the fence about filing with the PDBR. I know that the Army did not use the correct codes when they rated my knee. It should have rated higher than 0%. I had two iinjuries to my left knee both resulting in complete ACL replacements and removal of my meniscus. The Army rated my knee under code 5003 Arthritis caused by trauma with pain. My knee bends with full ROM but it hurts like hell and is very week and unstable. The Instability and the fact that the Dr. told me that the only thing left for me was a comlpete knee replacement (and I was too young for that) were the reasons for my MEB/PEB. The Army specifically stated that instability is not unfitting...LOL...If I cant cary the weight and do everything that everyone else does then I am waisting the Army's time. I think they rated the Pain and the arthritis to avoid the 30%. I am not sure exactly what codes the VA used to rate my knee...I am guessing they used the same code because they to came up to the same 0%. I have to get a copy of my C-File. Removal of the meniscus alone is worth 10%. I did not know that until a few weeks ago...that is why I was thinking about filing again... In 2006 I received $55,000 minus 25% tax when I was separated and later after the VA found me 70% disabled I filed with the IRS and got the 25% back in 2007.

Hamslice, Tell me about it....I was really confused until I actually found the info.....now I am even more confused about wether a secondary condition related to my severance causing condition would cause them to start recouping....lower back pain caused by my knee ....I personaly beleive that I hurt my back at the same time I hurt my knee but I never complained or saw a doc about my back until after I got out...so I think my only recourse would be to connect my back to my knee injury as a secondary condition....I haven t been to the DAV yet...but I plan to go talk to them soon....

Hamslice, Did you have additional disabilities rated by the VA...other than the disability that caused your severance from service? If you did then the VA may have made a mistake when they determined your (monthly) recoupment amount. For Example: Condition A (condition that caused the severance) = 20% Condition B (not rated by your service)= 50% Condition C(not rated by your service)=30% Total Combined Compensation would equal 70% The VA would then determine the compensation for your situation rate at 70% Lets say $1461 Then the VA would determine the compensation for your situation at 20% Lets say $300 1461-300 = $1161 this would be the amount you should receive monthly until your severance pay has been satisfied. Note: The above amounts are not accurate from the compensatin table. Also, the recoupment amount will never exceed 20% even if the disability that caused your severance from service were to increase...... This is my understanding of how they determine the monthly recoupment amount...I will add that I did ask when my original award was granted about paying back the severance and I did not get an answer..... David

Hamslice, I know it is weird and I realy wondered about myself, until I found the information. In order for the VA to recoup severance pay then you must be receiving compensation for the disability that caused the severance. The Army specifically did not rate my other conditions because if they did then I wold have rated more than 30% and would have received a retirement vs separation. Then the Army not the VA would be paying me. The Army and the VA both rated my disability at 0%(the disabiity that caused the severance). I can not be compensated at 0% so there is nothing for them to recoup from at this time. Again when the VA determins the amount to recoup they can only recoup up to a max of no more than the total compensation for the disabilty being compensated for. The Army did not separate me for Sleap Apnea, major Depression , Hypertension, Shoulder Condition etc...Now, If I file for an increase from 0 to whatever for my knee then the VA will begin recoupment at that amount...but I will still receive Compensation for all of my other compensable disabilities... Did you receive a rating for the disabilty that caused your severance? Do you have other disabilities that are or were rated? David

Springfield....you?

Did they mention anything about Major Depression? Any other possible problems....do you have a rating at all yet?

I was diagnosed with hypertension and have been on blood pressure medicine for years....still rated 0%...but service connected...how can I get that changed?

Maybe this will help...... f. Example 3: Withholding For 0 Percent Disability Situation: A service-connected severance disability is evaluated at 0 percent. Result: Pay full VA compensation for any non-severance pay disabilities. Do not withhold anything for the non-compensable severance pay disability.

The catch is that the recoupment should begin once you start receiving compensation for the disability that caused the severance. Once that has happened 10, 20 , 30 or whatever percentage that was awarded for that specific disability has been determined recoupment begins monthly at no more than that. It can not be in excess of the total amount that you would get for the disability that caused the severance. Lets say in my case.....I was separated from the Army for Chronic Left Knee pain. Rated at 0%.....filed for VA Compensation and received 0% for my knee same as the Army, VA awarde 50% sleep Apnea, 30% Major Depression..combined rating 70%....Since the Army did not rate the other disabilities then they were not the reason for my separation and not included when determining recoupment of disability severance pay...now if I file a claim and my 0% for my knee in increased to lets say 20%...then they would begin recouping my severance pay at the amount I would receive for 20% compensation and no more than that....I think that it is confusing because most people would think that if something is bad enough to cause separation from the service that it would in itself ratre higher than 0%....noted in my PEB proceedings that DOD PDES may only rate an illness or injury that is service incurred or permanently aggravated by the service and, by ITSLEF, would cause the Soldier to be separated or retired. Although, the PDES cannot compensate you for these conditions...ie Sleep Apnea, Major Depression you may still apply for a disability rating for them through the Department of Veteran Affairs since they operate under different regulations and guidlines and may compensate any service-connected condition even if not unfitting at the time of separation). That is how I understand it now....I was confused as hell but I hope I am right.......Lastly....since determining recoupment of Disability Severance pay is based on the percentage of the disability that caused the severance and I was awarded 0%...then they can not very well recoup at this time because it is 0%...no compensation for 0%.....

I am the same way....everything has to be one way or the other for me....My ADD doesnt allow for much wiggle room..LOL...so I think I am atleast in the ballpark and the VA wont be barking for a complete payback all at once because of a mistake.....I am glad I found this forum because it led me to find answers and get a better grasp...I am not there yet but I am getting there..... Thak you so much

Do you think I should then request that the PDBR review my case? I thought that I should have atleast received 20%...then if I am not mistaken they should have also included 5259 Cartilage, Semiluna, removal of (minimum10% added not combined) which would have made it 30%...I am just not sure...its all such a headache.. Thank you David

Yes they will if I get a retirement or an increase from 0%... David

ok, finally found a link and here is how I understand it....please correct me if I am wrong I understand this to say that yes the VA will recoup, but only based on the UNFIT Disability or the disability that caused the separation from service (my knee). That they can only withold the entire amount (monthly) from the disabilty that caused the severance. I received a 0% disablity rating for my knee and it was only my knee that caused the separation...so the other disabilities are not able to be recouped from.....once the percentage rate for my knee goes up then recoupment will begin at that percentage only....it will not go up if my disability goes up for my knee thereafter..... REF: M21-1MR, Part III, Subpart v, Chapter 4, Section B For information about severance pay withholding, see 38 CFR 3.700(a)(3) (3) Severance pay. Where the disability or disabilities found to be service-connected are the same as those upon which disability severance pay is granted, or where entitlement to disability compensation was established on or after September 15, 1981, an award of compensation will be made subject to recoupment of the disability severance pay. Prior to the initial determination of the degree of disability recoupment will be at the full monthly compensation rate payable for the disability or disabilities for which severance pay was granted. Following initial determination of the degree of disability recoupment shall not be at a monthly rate in excess of the monthly compensation payable for that degree of disability. For this purpose the term “initial determination of the degree of disability” means the first regular schedular compensable rating in accordance with the provisions of Subpart B, Part 4 of this chapter and does not mean a rating based in whole or in part on a need for hospitalization or a period of convalescence. Where entitlement to disability compensation was established prior to September 15, 1981, compensation payable for service-connected disability other than the disability for which disability severance pay was granted will not be reduced for the purpose of recouping disability severance pay. Where entitlement to disability compensation was established on or after September 15, 1981, a veteran may receive disability compensation for disability incurred or aggravated by service prior to the date of receipt of the severance pay, but VA must recoup from that disability compensation an amount equal to the severance pay. Where payment of severance pay was made on or before September 30, 1996, VA will recoup from disability compensation an amount equal to the total amount of the severance pay. Where payment of severance pay was made after September 30, 1996, VA will recoup from disability compensation an amount equal to the total amount of the severance pay less the amount of Federal income tax withheld from such pay. For members of the Armed Forces who separated under Chapter 61 of title 10, United States Code, on or after January 28, 2008, no recoupment of severance pay will be made for disabilities incurred in line of duty in a combat zone or incurred during performance of duty in combat-related operations as designated by the Department of Defense. (Authority: 10 U.S.C. 1174(h)(2) and 1212(d)) David

Even if I file a completly new claim...so when I have my knee replaced...and its just a matter of time..because both the Army and the VA said that is all that is left for them to do that is when the VA will recoup my separation pay? It kind of confuses me because I get rated one way and when my knee gets worse then recoupment begins...so many years later.....the problem I am having is that my knee is broke....was broke from the begining and when i am old enough to have it replaced then now they recoup.....initial claim was based on Degenerative Arthritis.....there is not much arthritis in my knee.....its just completly unstable and full of junk from last surgery....so my new claim has nothing to do with Arthritis.....if that alone is what the Army separated me for and not the Insatability...then how can they recoup.....sorry didnt mean to rant about it...I am very thankful for your advice...I just really believe the Army should have rated my knee at 30%...but that is hind site because I should have argued then instead of now....... Thank you so much David

I am not looking for an earlier effective date. I have always thought that the Army or the VA did not rate my knee correctly. I had two complete ACL Reconstructions and my meniscus removed. My MEB/PEB was based on my knee. The Army used code 5003 Arthritis Degenerative due to trauma. Then said instability was not an unfitting disability...therefore rating me at 0%. The VA rated me at 0% as well but also found that I was 70% with sleep apnea WCPAP and major depression....the army said both Sleep apnea and Major depression were not unfitting and did not rate them. I have been on the fence about requesting the PDBR review my case because I feel the Army used an incorrect code of (5003). I feel they should have used 5257 (20%)for ROM because that is where all of my pain comes from and also code 5259 removal of Cartilage (10% added not combined) giving me the magic 30% for a retirement verses the separtation that I received. But I am afraid if I do that and the PDBR only cops to 10 or 20%% then the VA will do the same and recoup my severance pay. quote name='jbasser' timestamp='1307455783' post='247194'] The way I look at it is if you get an earlier effective date they will catch it and deduct the severance pay. Perhaps someone has been through this one and can chime in. Basser