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kent76
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Posts posted by kent76
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The rules the moderators use here are not very strict. In the past there were people who came here just to disrupt the board. It got everyone up in arms and that is why we have moderators. Posts may sometimes end up in cyberspace but I think it is just a SNAFU and not intentional censorship. As long as you don't call others names or get too political in a partisan way you are fine. We all have disagreements because we have different backgrounds and experiences. Some of us are old farts who remember the bad old days at the VA. Most have gotten rough treatment by the military or VA or we would not be here posting. If we just keep it civil and don't respond to those who piss us off we can be OK. If someone pisses you off just don't respond. The topics move so quickly it will be forgotten in a day. Half the people here have MH issues from the military and the other half have MH issues from dealing with the VA. If you can climb over the VA barbwire without leaving a little chunk of flesh you are rare and fortunate. No one is 100% right about everything.
Great post! I definitely enjoy reading what people post up here and will soon be filing my own claim for compensation!
I am just trying to finish up my therapy sessions and gather all my evidence before filing my claim. I am learning quite a bit about the process and what I will need to win a claim thanks in part to a lot of good advise that I have seen on this board.
I had considered filing earlier but decided against it because the stronger the evidence submitted, the better chance I have of prevailing with the claim. Thanks again!
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I understand your support of the moderators but that doesn't give them the right to call people names! That's very unprofessional and rude! If a moderator disagrees with a poster, he/she could send a personal message to them or simply delete the post thus keeping with the integrity of the forum guidelines.
I know that my posted topic has some people upset but some people do suffer from legitimate MH issues which affects their cognitive abilities. I came up here for some information and I received plenty of well-informed suggestions and ideas so I do appreciate this board.
Finally, I actually work in the MH field with a degree in Human Services Counseling. I am also a veteran with 22 years of service. I have a little bit of integrity so I would suggest someone to do something illegal or unethical but I also feel that the military should apply it's ethics and stop the aggressiveness of recruiters since they will not be around for the recruits when a situation like this happens again. Thanks ken
oops! sorry about that should be would not suggest!
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i stand by the moderators and believe they do follow the guidelines and i see the back end moderators are very concerned about following the guidelines and keeping this a peaceful enviroment for sharing knowledge, all moderators struggle with making a call on a post and they all give the veteran the benefit of the doubt. you don't have to believe me i know it is true. i am the one that has been running this site for 10 years if they doesn't give me more credibility than a new user i just don't know what to tell you all.
I understand your support of the moderators but that doesn't give them the right to call people names! That's very unprofessional and rude! If a moderator disagrees with a poster, he/she could send a personal message to them or simply delete the post thus keeping with the integrity of the forum guidelines.
I know that my posted topic has some people upset but some people do suffer from legitimate MH issues which affects their cognitive abilities. I came up here for some information and I received plenty of well-informed suggestions and ideas so I do appreciate this board.
Finally, I actually work in the MH field with a degree in Human Services Counseling. I am also a veteran with 22 years of service. I have a little bit of integrity so I would suggest someone to do something illegal or unethical but I also feel that the military should apply it's ethics and stop the aggressiveness of recruiters since they will not be around for the recruits when a situation like this happens again. Thanks ken
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Can someone please ensure that moderators adhere to the same policies!
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Chess,
You posted, "I answered your question..you just did not like the answer."
1) I don't find any post in this thread where you answered my question.
2) It's irrelevant here if someone likes or doesn't like an answer to a claims/research question.
What matters is if an answer is adjudicatively correct, by VA rules and regs.
Kent,
The reason I posted my question in this thread,
"If this vet shows pre-existing conditions -- will that then open the door for VA
to fire back with fraudulent enlistment"
When trying to get the depression service connected by aggravation of a pre-existing condition
and you show a suicide attempt prior to enlistment, I think you'll run into problems because
this mental health information was not disclosed prior to entry. This is where my question comes in. The question has nothing to do with her sexuality.
As it has already been suggested by myself and other members, as far as VA disability claims go, it would be in the best interest of the claimant to stay away from discussing those issues and all of the additional drama involved in this claimants life. I promise you these issues will only have a negative impact on a claim for service connected disability.
jmho,
carlie
I agree Carlie! We are prepared to go the distance with this! And you asked some valid questions and gave some very imformative advise. I thank you for doing this.
I will definitely stay away from anything that could harm our claim and will follow the advise of our representative while pursuing the NOD. I will also keep you informed as to how this claim process goes.
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Carlie
I answered your question..you just did not like the answer. Again, if your roomate had preexisting conditions that (s)he DENIED on their Pre Enlistment Physical, then that is fraud.
What did your roomate put down for "Sex" on the form? Did (s)he put "Yes", or "not sure", or "Female soon to be male", or "male soon to be female" in answer to that question? If (s)he answered even that question falsely, then that is fraud.
I really can't figure you out!
You want to make this into something it's not! Again, you want to throw in an accusation of fraud when there is none to be had! There is no law that states that you have to give the military information about sex especially since the gender issue wasn't acted upon until she got out of the military. Therefore, there is no basis for your reasonings. Also, the military's don't ask/ don't tell policy prohibits that line of questioning that you are speaking of! The pre-enlistment physical is a mute point since she completed her enlistment honorably and the fact she didn't have a documented pre-enlisted diagnosis, she was not obligated to disclose that information. She was a male before she joined and a male when she existed the military.
So please tell me your basis for fraud.
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kent, i realize the va claims process is pretty bewildering for you and your roommate, and you don't know where to even begin, but you are going on about issues that are not relevant. i need very specific answers to my very specific questions. it sounds mean, and i don't want to hurt your feelings, but you have to understand that neither the rater nor the dro care about your roommate's rather dramatic life story. when you meet with the dro it will hurt you more than it helps to go on about all that stuff because it is just irrelevant. what the rater or dro wants to know is, was there a diagnosed mental disorder in service? is there a current diagnosed mental disorder? is there a link between the in-service mental disorder and the current mental disorder? if there was a diagnosis in service, was it part of a process that pre-existed service? is the presumption of soundness rebuttable? if it pre-existed service, was it measurably aggravated WHILE IN SERVICE? the answer to these questions will determine if service connection is warranted. in order for me to answer these questions, i need you to specifically answer, one by one, the questions i raised in my previous post. don't worry about the stomach issues right now.
Entropent, those questions are something that I can't begin to answer because there is not much information for me determine what the rater based his decision on as far as the pre-existing of her diagnosis of depression and personality disorder other than the SMR reference while on active duty. Every other diagnosis of depression and personality disorder came after the military service. The first diagnosis came from our therapist for her having a major depressive disorder with suicidal ideation with a GAF score of 45. Next came the VA hospital therapist who first stated the depression and personality disorder as being a gender identity disorder. He also gave her a GAF score of 45. We also had the SSA therapist diagnose her with a personality disorder with depression. We were awarded SSDI for her condition. The C&P examiner focused entirely on the gender issue. The rater's decision seemed to specifically refer to the examiner's references in making his decision on denying the depression claim.
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kent, i realize the va claims process is pretty bewildering for you and your roommate, and you don't know where to even begin, but you are going on about issues that are not relevant. i need very specific answers to my very specific questions. it sounds mean, and i don't want to hurt your feelings, but you have to understand that neither the rater nor the dro care about your roommate's rather dramatic life story. when you meet with the dro it will hurt you more than it helps to go on about all that stuff because it is just irrelevant. what the rater or dro wants to know is, was there a diagnosed mental disorder in service? is there a current diagnosed mental disorder? is there a link between the in-service mental disorder and the current mental disorder? if there was a diagnosis in service, was it part of a process that pre-existed service? is the presumption of soundness rebuttable? if it pre-existed service, was it measurably aggravated WHILE IN SERVICE? the answer to these questions will determine if service connection is warranted. in order for me to answer these questions, i need you to specifically answer, one by one, the questions i raised in my previous post. don't worry about the stomach issues right now.
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Thanks again for your help! We are going to see a representative and let him/her review the decision with us to determine which way to approach this on Monday. I will let you know all the issues at that time. This way I can give you some informed material rather than speculation and opinions. I know that you are trying to help me so I truly appreciate your assistance.
I will definitely let everyone know the outcome of this!
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kent, i have reviewed the entire thread, and i have some questions for you. if you want to answer them, maybe i can figure out why the rater made the decision that he did, and give a guess as to whether your claim has a chance of ultimately prevailing. i have reviewed your initial post which quotes part of your roommates rating denial.
1) your roommate was apparently treated for symptoms of depression briefly while on active duty. how long after entry onto active duty did this happen? how long was the treatment? what was the specific diagnosis? was your roommate returned to duty without restrictions? was there any repeat episode documented in the service records? how long after discharge was it before your roommate was treated again for his/her depression, and do you have documentation of this? what is the diagnosis provided by the va examiner? do you have a copy of the va exam that you could quote the examiner's opinion from?
2) stomach complaints. was your roomate treated for unspecified stomach complaints while on active duty, or was there a specific diagnosis, such as viral gastroenteritis? what were the symptoms on active duty (stomach pain, constipation, diarrhea..)? how many times on active duty is there documentation of treatment? how many times after service have the same symptoms been treated? what are the symptoms now? what is the diagnosis now?
these are the type of questions a rater or dro will ask when reviewing your claim. if you feel like answering, i'll take a stab at it.
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Thanks again, let me see if I can answer your questions.
My roommate entered the service in November of 2000 and I met her while I was in the reserves about a year later in 2001. She appeared to be a normal male with a girlfriend but was having problems with a his relationship with her. Ironically, the girlfriend was the daughter of someone I had worked with while in college so I knew her mother. Her mother discovered an email my roommate sent to her expressing how he wished someone would kill her because she was being a b*t*h. She forwarded the email to his division officer and navy Lt. and he began mentally and verbally assaulting my roommate with threats and assigning punishments not in accordance with the UCMJ. He even insulted me over the phone when I intervened on my roommates behalf. This led to a mental collaspe by my roommate and a week of hospitalization because of suicide ideation and depression. The officer was later reprimanded and my roommate was transferred to another command.
My best friend and I and her son, the yet to be marine I mentioned earlier in my post, went daily to visit my roommate while hospitalized. She would constantly cry and was afraid that she was going to be kicked out of the military and how disappointed her family would be in her. It was near Thanksgiving so we decided to let her move in with us because we feared she would try killing her self in her state of mind if left alone.
My roommate was also prescribed minocyline for acne while on active duty, she quit taking them after 6 months because she started having stomach problems shortly afterwards. The stomach problems has be constant since 2002 and she has had many episodes and treatments for it. She was diagnosed with GERD on one occasion in her service records and on her exist physical, it was also noted that the stomach pain was still prevelent.
My roommate was given a choice whether to continue with her service or receive a discharge, she chose to stay in because I was there to encourage her along with some of my friends. The treating doctor during the hospitalization was instrumental in having the harrassing officer reprimanded and helped with getting her a transfer to another command. He was a navy Captain!
He told her to call him personally if she ever needed his help in the future.
My roommate actually signed an extension for 2 years in return for orders to Japan near the end of her enlistment; however, once in Japan, about 4 months later, she was found to be not eligible for overseas duty and returned stateside with orders to the same command she transferred from. Japan was her dream assignment but now she had to return to her former command with a 2 year extension on top of that. The depression returned worst than ever. She was able to have the military waive one year of that extension but she had to go on a deployment for 6 months. She made it through the deployment but was only allowed to work cleaning heads and painting because she was not focused enough to do her job which was on the flight deck working around airplanes. She told me that she almost lost her life on one occasion thus being relegated to cleaning duties.
She was honorably separated in November of 2004. She had found a new girlfriend and things were going fine until she revealed to her in 2005 that she had always wanted to be a girl. She lived with me for several years before she told me this. She was afraid that I would abandon her so she kept this from me the whole while. Her girlfriend dumped her and I was concerned enough to seek therapy for her for depression and talk of her electrocuting herself. The first therapist was a female who specialized in transgender issues but she made matters worst by showing little empathy for her problems which btw still included intense stomach pain, nausia, and vomitting. We sought out another therapist who she liked and we continue to see today. He was the one who recommended that we apply for SSDI and he gave her an extensive evaluation that concluded that my roommate suffers from a major depressive disorder with suicidal ideation. The GAF score was 45. The transgender issue was an issue; however, he felt that and noted that he felt that his parents were problematic with the father being an alcoholic and abusive and the mother was neglective of her kids. The separated when my roommate was 9 and she stayed with the mother. The mother was acccording to my roommate, ADD and once in a cult. She remarried to a man named Bill who was more a father to her than her biological father. The mother divorced him also and has had many relationships with men since.
Once my roommate revealed her gender decision to her family, they abandoned her and this only complicated things. This is where we stand today.
In 2005 we sought treatment also at the VA hospital for both depression and stomach problems. The MH clinic therapist referred in his report to my roommate as a "homosexual male" which is totally wrong! He stated that she suffered from depression with suicide ideation positive and had a personality disorder or Gender Identity Disorder. He gave her a GAF score 45. The medication he precribed actually made her more suicidal and depressed and he seemed very uninformed and uncomfortable about transgenderism. My roommate asked for another therapist but the VA would not comply with this request. So we pretty much only see the VA now for the stomach problems.
Speaking of stomach problems, the VA actually gave my roommate a diagnosis of Irriatible Bowel Syndrome in March of this year and the C&P exams were in June.
Finally, the C&P exams were very short and I was present for both examinations. The first examiner checked for signs of acne which was present but only qualified at 0% rating. Next he touched her stomach and asked if she had any pain. He noted that there was still problems but he failed to give a diagnosis and he noted that he didn't find any stomach problems. I am still scratching my head on that one!
The next examiner was funny, he thought that he had the wrong patient because he expected a female! Anyway, the exam lasted only about 15 mins and he basically focused on the transgender issues and not so much the depression. I felt that he steered the exam toward his conclusion. My roommate stated that she felt like she has known since an early age that she wanted to be a girl. So, I guess that he took that and ran with it! I feel that the depressive issues were intentionally ignored.
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"I feel the same way but you never know! The reasons for denial appears to be based solely on the opinions of the C&P examiners..."
no kent, you are not understanding me. VA is not the Department of Defense, and has no influence whatsoever on determinations which belong appropriately under the jurisdiction of the military services. VA has no power under law to determine if an enlistment was fraudulent. period.
i'm a little confused about your comment regarding the opinions of the VA examiners. why do you think they would not be relevant?
Maybe I am the one confused here! I feel the same way about the VA having no power as you say to determine that her enlistment is fraudulent! I don't understand the reference toward the Department of Defense.
I just feel that the examiners were a little bias and solely focused on gender with being the cause of her depression! Being that I live with her, I would liken her condition more to being mild retardation! There is definitely a cognitive issue involved her thus requiring us to have a psychotherapist!
I was also seeking comments on what a determination could render if the DRO reverses the decision based on the conditions that I stated earlier!
Thanks for your inputs because this is a learning experience for me although it's quite confusing sometimes!
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"If this vet shows pre-existing conditions -- will that then open the door for VA
to fire back with fradulent enlistment"
VA has no power to determine if a military enlistment was fraudulent.
I feel the same way but you never know! The reasons for denial appears to be based solely on the opinions of the C&P examiners. I believe the the DRO will reverse this decision once we hit him with the presumption of soundness argument and the burden will be on them to prove that my roommate had a pre-existing condition since it's not documented upon entry into the service. I am a little confused about the denial for stomach conditions due to not having a clinical diagnosis! We have VA records with a diagnosis of IBS just this year and there is a notation in her SMR of having GERD. I guess they overlooked that!
My question is, does IBS qualify as diagnosed clinical condition? Also, if the DRO reverses the decision, shouldn't depression with suicidal ideation, a gaf score of 45, IBS/GERD, and SSDI disability for depression warrant 100%? Just curious as to what these things would rate!
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Kent,
I sure wish you'd drop the big chip off your shoulder and open your mind enough to understand the damned question. I'm not attacking your friend so you can drop being defensive. The question
that I've asked twice now has yet to be answered.
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"QUOTE(Berta @ Sep 26 2007, 07:44 AM)
This case might help you :http://www.va.gov/vetapp04/files2/0417844.txt
If a veteran can prove a pre-existing condition was "aggravated" by service they can succeed in a claim like this."
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I'll post this question a third time to see if I can get an answer, it happens to be pertinent
to the contentions of the claim you are helping your friend with.
If this vet shows pre-existing conditions -- will that then open the door for VA
to fire back with fradulent enlistment ? ?
Also:
1) a claim for depression doesn't require a stressor.
2) the mother of the girlfriend and the officer and the phone call etc...
I would not put any of that info into the claim.
jmho,
carlie
Sorry about that Carlie! I really don't know how to answer your question! There is no evidence of a pre-existing condition other than the statements given to the examiner during the C&P exams and during a MH evaluation by the VA! The clinic that she checked herself into really didn't provide a clinical diagnosis! How could the VA claim a fraudulent enlistment without any documentation stating otherwise? Again sorry about the misunderstanding! BTW, thanks for the info on the depression and stessor because that is something that I didn't know! I was trying to suggest a stessor for the hospitilization! Thanks again to you and everyone trying to help. I definitely am not up here to berate or argue with anyone because we all have opinions and sometimes we won't agree on things. I am glad that you brought up the argument but I never imagined that someone would take it to that next level.
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Not to PO anyone regarding this thread, but my question is:
If this vet shows pre-existing conditions -- will that then open the door for VA
to fire back with fradulent enlistment ? ?
jmho,
carlie
My roommate was hospitalized for a week at Portsmouth Naval Hospital for depression because of issues at her command; however, the navy captain who treated her was instrumental in having her division officer reprimanded and her getting a transfer because of the officer's collaboration with the mother of her then girlfriend to keep them apart but giving her unauthorized punishments and restrictions. The doctor also gave her the chose of remaining in the service or accepting a discharge for depression. My roommate chose to stay in the military. Also, the mother of her girlfriend happened to be someone that I personally knew and once worked with so I knew how vindictive she was. She even bad mouthed me to this officer and he relayed those sentiments to my roommate and I then got involved! I personally called the officer and had a discussion with him which resulted in hanging up on me! This was flat-out harrassment of a junior subordinate thus leading to a reprimand once the facts were reported during her hospitalization. These were stressors I believe for depression in the military. My roommate was allowed to remain on active duty but was never the same afterward! There can be no fraudulent claims made since the military allowed her to continue with her military obligation with an obvious depressive state of mind!
There is no pre-existing conditions in her entrance records also remember that one must go through a physical before entering the service. Again, there are perhaps thousands of young men and women serving in the military with undiagnosed conditions before entering the service. You can't deny someone entry unless they are documented! My roommate checked herself into a clinic for help; however, because of the cost, she checked herself out without receiving a proper diagnosis. You can not prosecute someone if no crime is committed! Many kids join the military out not because they want to but because they don't know what else to do! Military recruiters often convince them that they made the right choice and pressure them to follow through with their initial reaction to enlist! With no diagnosis for depression from a medical doctor, the recruiter was within his right to do so although it may not have been very wise again in my opinion! The fact is, now that she has was found totally disabled by SSA and has serious stomach and depression problems, she can't support herself and her mental capacity is more like a child now! Her gaf score was recorded by our therapist and the VA as 45. I live with her so I know what she is going through! She is no criminal just someone who wants to live and feel good about herself doing it!
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This case might help you :
http://www.va.gov/vetapp04/files2/0417844.txt
If a veteran can prove a pre-existing condition was "aggravated" by service they can succeed in a claim like this.
There is a lot to doing that though-and there is the fact that the vet did not have the past problems documented at induction or with the recruiter.Maybe this is not the best way to go-
Ken- these are complex issues-I know you are doing your best to help this veteran but I would-if I were you-try to seek a good vet rep to help your friend with these claims.
And by all means stay aboard here too-
the NOD has to be prepared and this is where you can raise argument on their decision.
Also -did the veteran get a legal VCAA letter telling her exactly what she needed to succeed in each claim?
Did the SSA also consider the GERD and IBS as part of her inability to work?
That might be the BEST avenue of approach here-
one more question- if this is a Gulf War veterans please look up the Persian Gulf War regs as to the IBS- etc.
Whether GW vet or not this case shows how VA rates IBS:
http://www.va.gov/vetapp07/files2/0717227.txt
Many vets have had GERD associated to SC ISB for additional SC ratings.
With some documentation in her SMRS- as to this condition and proof that it is current and at a ratable level-these are points you can make in the NOD.(I would send them highlighted copies of the SMRs too as to which ones show inservice stomach problems)and also send copies of anything whatsoever in the SSA findings that would help this claim as to the IBS and GERD.
Thanks again Berta and everyone for offering advise! I have now have someone helping us with our NOD! I know that some people will disagree with me for my stance; nonetheless, there are thousands of vets serving and dying for this country in Iraq and throughout the world who could have the same said about them as to the conditions and terms of enlistment! The government also made a pledge to take care of us after serving our country but we need look no further than these message boards to see that the system is not fair to many veterans. I will continue to support my roommate and any other veteran who honorable serve their country regardless of the terms and conditions that got them to the finish line. You can't wear out a pair of shoes and then refuse to pay for them!
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I'm going to stay out of the fray in this one, but I do have a question for Kent76 or anyone else who can enlighten me on the matter of enlistment with prior Ritalin treatment that is suggested in this thread.
Kent76, you stated "I know personally 2 young men who joined the Marine Corps and Army after being on Ritalin most of their lives."
Is there some regulation that says you can't be or have been on Ritalin and join the service? I find that interesting since the last stats I read on Ritalin (and other ADHD drugs for kids) was that 10% of our boys today are on Riatalin or like drugs. I did some research on ADHD drugs when they wanted to put one of our grandchildren on it and thankfully the parents decided against it when the docs said a 6 year old had to get a "base line EKG" before going on Ritalin because it can affect a child's heart.
Just curious how the military is handling the Rialin issue when so many kids and teenagers are on one drug or another.
Thanks,
TS
I only know that both of these young men were special ed students, the marine as teen threatened to kill one of his teachers and had to be hospitalized for several weeks. He was on medications until 18 when he decided to join the corps. He always talked about wanting to kill Iraqs and when home on leave, he talked about joining Blackwater so he could go back to Iraq! The death of his friend was traumatic to him and he started drinking and had to eventually be hospitalized!
The other kid, let's just say this, he is going to Iraq next month and most of us agree that he will either kill someone or come back in a body bag! The recruiters for both of these guys were relentless in persuading them to enlist!
Sorry about the rant and I honestly am not sure what the military's policy for ritalin right now!
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I admire your convictions, but you stated, "She became so depressed that she took a bottle of pills and cut her wrists. She was passed out for 3 days before she woke up. She admitted herself into the Ozark Clinic in Springdale before checking herself out after a couple of days. She then moved back to Missouri with her mother who instead of helping her, insisted that she find a job and help out financially. A couple of weeks later, she joined the Navy with the assistance of a recruiter who she confided her problems with. He basically got her into the Navy by not disclosing the suicide attempt."
Your friend had to sign the various enlistment documents certifying they were true and correct--they also state that there are penalties for untruthful statements. Evidently (and as you imply) the enlistment documents made no mention of her suicide attempt or she would not be allowed to enlist.
The fact she served honorably is immaterial since she entered under fraud. I processed a case 20 years ago where a soldier, who had served honorably for 12 years, was found to have entered the Army under an assumed identify since he had been discharged from USMC during boot camp for a transgression. The Court Martial board did not consider the 12 years of "good" service; the belief was that everything after the fraudulent enlistment was tainted.
Sorry to PO you, but your attempt to get her benefits based on a fraudulent enlistment is out of line as you say...
I have had time to cool off! I still disagree with you for the very fact that the VA denied her for NOT having a diagnosed condition on one of her claims! Please tell me how that's not contradicting in itself! Basically, the VA is saying, if you don't have a diagnosed condition, then there is nothing wrong with you. Almost every Government and private agency find reasons to deny veterans their benefits using bogus reasons such as "personality disorders" just to keep from paying claim.
Again, I defend my roommate's claim for benefits, as a 22 year veteran myself, I believe that the military should be held accountable since they failed to provide medication thus saying it was ok for her to continue serving her country!
You may think it's fraudulent but you need to address the recruiter and not the recruit because an 18 year old can easily be mislead by someone trying to meet a quota!
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It sounds like Manitou has the right idea. Since we have not seen the records, the fact YOU THINK it is fraud, is pretty incriminating. Frauds do not deserve VA benefits, they deserve jail time.
Please explain to me how it can be fraud if you do not have a clinical diagnosis?
I stated that I do not believe that my roommate should have been admitted; however, that's my personal opinion! Nonetheless, she was admitted and she served 4 years and was discharged honorably! I know personally 2 young men who joined the Marine Corps and Army after being on Ritalin most of their lives. The military is recruiting and admitting thousands of servicemembers who should not be in. Again, this is my personal opinion! BTW, my roommate was admitted and hospitalized while on active duty with depression but the military ALLOWED her to stay so it can be argued that the military was aware of the illness and chose not to discharge her!
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In my opinion, your comment is the most important of this entire thread. There was collusion between the former servicemember and the recruiter for a fradulent enlistment. As a retired Sergeamt Major, I strongly believe that they both should be prosecuted, NOT compensated. Dishonesty is dishonesty, regardless of the number of years since it occurred.
I suspect this might be an unpopular comment for some, but I could not keep quiet on this one. If Tbird so wishes, I'll remove my membership.
I think that you are way out of line here! This veteran served 4 years honorably and there is no documented pre-existing depression in her service record thus you have no basic for such a claim of dishonesty! My roommate confided that there were problems; nonethelesss, without any documented or diagnosis of depression anywhere and the fact that she served and received an honorable discharge warrants the the disability! I wish that you would reserve your comments until you know all the facts! I will see to it that my roommate gets compensation because she deserves it. BTW, I am POed about this!
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"I honestly think that the depression is a manifestation of a complex array of things but certainly not being transgendered"
I sure agree- my only point was the depression claim seemed to be based on depression resulting in some way from her service and I tried to consider various scenarios in which that could gain service connection.I certainly considered that she might have exhibited signs of transgender behavior that could have caused an inservice assault like the Marine in the BVA decision suffered from and was award direct PTSD SC for it.
She could also -based on what you just posted-potentially have a claim of depression due to aggravation of a pre-existing condition.
I am not familiar with how VA Service connects aggravation of pre-existing conditions.
The regs are in 38 USC 1110,1111,1131, 1113 , 38 CFR 3.306 And Wagner V Principi.
If the inservice depression aggravated a pre -existing condition-that is also a way to attempt to gain direct service connection.
The BVA web site can be searched for claims like this.
Thank you so much for your help! I will certainly explore those avenues you've mention! ken
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I am going to be honest with you about something! My roommate joined the Navy less than a month after cutting her wrists in a suicide attempt in 2000. Her parents are divorced and both have problems, his mother and my roommate is ADD! My roommate was living in Arkansas with her father who is an alcoholic, kicked her out and she moved into an empty house belonging to a woman in her 50's. My roommate told me that she lived in a large house but stayed in one room the whole time there which was a couple of weeks. She told me that the house was miles from anyone and she was alone and afraid thus staying in one room the whole while. She became so depressed that she took a bottle of pills and cut her wrists. She was passed out for 3 days before she woke up. She admitted herself into the Ozark Clinic in Springdale before checking herself out after a couple of days. She then moved back to Missouri with her mother who instead of helping her, insisted that she find a job and help out financially. A couple of weeks later, she joined the Navy with the assistance of a recruiter who she confided her problems with. He basically got her into the Navy by not disclosing the suicide attempt. She basically passed along boot camp and given only minimal jobs because she lacked the concentration to do certain tasks and could not hold a position of authority. My roommate was precribed ritalin as a teen but her father didn't think that she needed them. I honestly think that the depression is a manifestation of a complex array of things but certainly not being transgendered!
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I certainly don't want to disclose this information to the VA; however, the recruiter is basically the person responsible for her joining the military because she really shouldn't have be permitted to. Since we can't change those facts, the question becomes, is her depression a pre-existing condition or a condition made worst because of the service! I feel that if the military accepts you then they are responsible for you afterwards! The transgender issue and personality disorder just clouds the real issue of depression. I still believe that the Navy failed my roommate by not given her medication after treatment and hospitization for depression for a week. The doctor notes gave her a choice of a admin discharge or continuing in the service. She chose to continue in the service and with my help, she made it! Unfortunately, the depression with not being able to find a job and "chronic" stomach problems makes it impossible for her to obtain employment. I sought out help for her because I saw warning signs. She has not worked since getting out of the military in 2004. The SSA recognized this thus awarding her SSDI, I would have never imagined that the VA would deny her!
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"The pychotherapist urged us to apply for SSDI because of her mental status. Again, he diagnosed her as having a major depressive disorder and not a personality disorder which i understand is not ratable"
Good- did the VA list that as evidence in the denial and then mention it at all in the narrative?
"Again, we have a diagnosis of Irratable Bowel Syndrome from the VA doctor's notes along with a 2001 service record diagnosis of GERD. Do you suppose someone missed this in the doctor's notes"
Of course they did- veteran they do that all the time-
I think the GERD and IBS are the strong claims -the only reason I say this is that the proverbial Dear John is not enough for VA to consider this as a stressor or cause for depression- as far as I know-
because the VA could say this is part of "the normal rigors of service" and not service connect it.
I wonder if there could be more to your friend's inservice problems that caused the hospitalization and depression-
there are 4 transgender claims at the BVA-I only had time to read one-
apparently the veteran- a male- had been assaulted by other Marines-
and at some point became transgendered after service, The BVA considered him as biological male but referred to him as a female in the decision. This vet got 10% for PTSD and the BVA awarded 30% on appeal.
I guess my point is that there might well be more to this as to service connection for depression and the psychotherapist might know enough to help get this vet service connected for depression-
Go to our topic "Getting in Independent Medical Opinion" and consider if the psychotherapist could change their IMO if the inservice events warrant it-
The fact that this vet has HD with NO personality disorder crap documented from the mil certainly shows that there is potential to knock down this PD diagnosis.
Still-if there is more to the inservice situation than just the Dear John letter-there could be potential for SC for the depression.
Does this vet have ALL of her SMRs and ALL medical records?
to include anything that was generated from the hospitalization?
Also has she checked the Schedule of ratings as to the IBS and GERD as to what rating she should fall into?
This is the BVA case I mean :
I am going to be honest with you about something! My roommate joined the Navy less than a month after cutting her wrists in a suicide attempt in 2000. Her parents are divorced and both have problems, his mother and my roommate is ADD! My roommate was living in Arkansas with her father who is an alcoholic, kicked her out and she moved into an empty house belonging to a woman in her 50's. My roommate told me that she lived in a large house but stayed in one room the whole time there which was a couple of weeks. She told me that the house was miles from anyone and she was alone and afraid thus staying in one room the whole while. She became so depressed that she took a bottle of pills and cut her wrists. She was passed out for 3 days before she woke up. She admitted herself into the Ozark Clinic in Springdale before checking herself out after a couple of days. She then moved back to Missouri with her mother who instead of helping her, insisted that she find a job and help out financially. A couple of weeks later, she joined the Navy with the assistance of a recruiter who she confided her problems with. He basically got her into the Navy by not disclosing the suicide attempt. She basically passed along boot camp and given only minimal jobs because she lacked the concentration to do certain tasks and could not hold a position of authority. My roommate was precribed ritalin as a teen but her father didn't think that she needed them. I honestly think that the depression is a manifestation of a complex array of things but certainly not being transgendered!
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The VA should not at all let the transexual situation cloud this veteran's issues.
However- was the veteran discharged with Personality disorder noted in their SMRs or in any other medical info such as from the SSA?
Personality Disorder is as you know- not service connectable in any way at all and much of the time it is NOT the true diagnosis-
Could she possibly afford to get a psychiatric opinion- or has she already that could overcome the personality disorder part of the claim?
I believe that transgender people have to go through a lot of psychiatric testing to make sure they DONT have a personality disorder-in order to make sure they have a solid way of dealing with the transgender transition.
But I am concerned that-would the loss of the girl friend in service that prompted the hospitalization be enough of a 'stressor' or 'depressor' to warrant SC on that basis?
I am thinking now -after re-reading all ths that maybe a good independent medical opinion should be for the stomach issues- there seems to be the documentation in service that she needs- but does she have medical records to prove this is chronic and at a ratable level?
By all means file for your back problems too- but remember the 3 key points in all direct service connection
claims:
1. current documented disability
2. service event,accident, GSW that caused the current disability
3. established proven nexus (link) between # 1 and #2.
Do you know this other vet's exact medical diagnosis that awarded her SSA?
my roommate was honorably discharged with no diagnosed conditions.
My roommates has been having stomach problems every since i have known her in 2001.
I paid for therapy sessions because I felt that she needed help for depression and thoughts of suicide!
The pychotherapist urged us to apply for SSDI because of her mental status. Again, he diagnosed her as having a major depressive disorder and not a personality disorder which i understand is not ratable.
Again, we have a diagnosis of Irratable Bowel Syndrome from the VA doctor's notes along with a 2001 service record diagnosis of GERD. Do you suppose someone missed this in the doctor's notes?
I summited our psychological evaluation from the therapist along with other documents i had in my position at the time.
Yes, he is a non-VA doctor!
I don't understand at all why they would base a decision on the C&P examiners when there is clearly a "chronic" stomach condition of 6 years with a recent diagnosis of IBS and there is definitely a depressive issue acknowledged by everyone.
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I thought that the claim was pretty much iron-clad; however, the rater seemed to use the opinion of the c&p examiners who seemed bias in my opinion to pretty much deny the claim. One note to this matter is, my roommate is transgendered which seems to make all the difference in the world as to how this claim was decided.
My roommate had 3 medical conditions for which compensation was filed, first, acne vulgaris which was rated at 0% and is probably acceptable given the reasons state. Second, my roommate has an extensive treatment record for depression and was granted SSDI for having depression along with a personality disorder. And finally, stomach problems which has been occuring since 2001. We have a psychotherapist who gave my roommate a gaf score of 45 along with a diagnosis of major depressive disorder. My roommate has been treated at the VA hospital in Hampton, Va. for depression and stomach problems as well. Can someone please explain to me why the VA denied this claim as I will type what the letter states.
Service connection may be granted for a disability which began in military service or was caused by some event or experience in service.
Your service medical records show you were diagnosed with or treated for signs and symptoms of depression and personality disorder while on active duty. A disability which began in service or was caused by some event in service must be considered "chronic" before service connection can be granted. Social Security Adminstration records show that you have personality disorder with depression. At the Department of Veteran Affairs examination on June 4, 2007 (Just a 10 min examination) you revealed you continue to have depressive moods. The examiner noted that you are in transition from male to female. After extensive interview the examiner determined that your depression is related to your gender confusion that pre-existed your active duty service. Service connection for depression is denied since this condition neither occurred in nor was caused by the service.
My roommate was hospitalized while on active duty for depression because of problems with a girlfriend and had suicidal ideation noted in the medical notes from his visit. I think that the VA is overlooking the depression and wants to pin it all on something that S(he) decided to pursue after the military. I have know my roommate for 6 years now and the gender issue is clouding the depressive issue which should warrant in my opinion a rating of 70% according to my research. We are filing a NOD of course.
Also, for the stomach problems they wrote.
Service connection may be granted to a disability which began in the military service or was caused by some event or experience in service. Service connectiion for stomach problems is denied because the medical evidence of record fails to show that this disability has been clinically diagnosed. (We have a diagnosis from the VA as IBS in March, 2007, also GERD from roommates military treatment records.) Your service medical records show you were diagnosed with and treated for stomach problems that did not result in chronic residuals ( what! almost 6 years) A disability which began in service or was caused by some event in service (minocycline related) must be considered "chronic" before service connection can be granted. At the Department of Veterans examination of June 4, 2007 you revealed you continue to have epigastric pain.
The examiner did not find any evidence of stomach problems and did not render a diagnosis. (This was a joke, i watched the examiner just rub my roommates stomach and asked how it felt) Medical evidence of record fails to show that you have a current diagnosis of stomach problems that has been clinically related to your active duty. Service connection for stomach problems is denied.
I am about to file my own claim for my back but this is really disturbing to me! I am the payee representative for my roommate because SSA determined that she can't make financial decisions based on her disability.
It is a shame that they treat veterans this way and even the treatment at the VA hospital has been quite rude for my roommate. I met my roommate in 2001 while in the reserves. At the time, he had a girlfriend and only after he got out of the Navy did he reveal his desire to become a female; nonetheless, the depression issues were already there and he attempted suicide while on active duty(which is documented also). My roommate recently changed her name to a female name so I will not disrespect her anymore by using his/him/he, but my point is, depression is not being treated seriously enough by the VA!
Can someone please tell me what they think and the best way to approach this denial letter. Thank you! ken
Fourm Guidelines - Read
in VA Disability Claims Research
Posted
Hope u feel better soon!
Let me explain one thing! I was not there for the enlistment of my roommate so I don't know what was said and done!
I made a statement saying that I didn't think that she should have been allowed into the military because I work with people with MH and I know how many of them fare under pressure and duress! Again, this was only my opinion!
Carlie posed a valid question and someone took that and ran with it with the accusation of fraud! I was defending my roommate by saying that recruiters are aggressive and that they bend the rules sometimes to allow recruits to enter.
Prior to entering the service she checked herself in and out of a MH clinic but came away with no clinical diagnosis because she couldn't afford treatment! I think that she joined the military out of desparation which is common for a lot of young people!
The question now becomes, did she lie or not to get into the service! She was not clinically diagnosed with depression.
Again, and I stress, I do not know what she answered on her enlistment papers! But aren't those questions subjective to clinical proof? Otherwise, wouldn't they be considered opinions since my roommate is not a medical expert?
The military discovered the MH problem while on active duty and after a brief hospitalization and a diagnosis of depression and a personality disorder, she was allowed to complete her enlistment.
Maybe the problem here is me because I believe that if the military allows someone to continue their service AFTER knowing that they have diagnosed conditions then the servicemember should be entitled just like everyone else!