kent76

Hope u feel better soon! Let me explain one thing! I was not there for the enlistment of my roommate so I don't know what was said and done! I made a statement saying that I didn't think that she should have been allowed into the military because I work with people with MH and I know how many of them fare under pressure and duress! Again, this was only my opinion! Carlie posed a valid question and someone took that and ran with it with the accusation of fraud! I was defending my roommate by saying that recruiters are aggressive and that they bend the rules sometimes to allow recruits to enter. Prior to entering the service she checked herself in and out of a MH clinic but came away with no clinical diagnosis because she couldn't afford treatment! I think that she joined the military out of desparation which is common for a lot of young people! The question now becomes, did she lie or not to get into the service! She was not clinically diagnosed with depression. Again, and I stress, I do not know what she answered on her enlistment papers! But aren't those questions subjective to clinical proof? Otherwise, wouldn't they be considered opinions since my roommate is not a medical expert? The military discovered the MH problem while on active duty and after a brief hospitalization and a diagnosis of depression and a personality disorder, she was allowed to complete her enlistment. Maybe the problem here is me because I believe that if the military allows someone to continue their service AFTER knowing that they have diagnosed conditions then the servicemember should be entitled just like everyone else!

Great post! I definitely enjoy reading what people post up here and will soon be filing my own claim for compensation! I am just trying to finish up my therapy sessions and gather all my evidence before filing my claim. I am learning quite a bit about the process and what I will need to win a claim thanks in part to a lot of good advise that I have seen on this board. I had considered filing earlier but decided against it because the stronger the evidence submitted, the better chance I have of prevailing with the claim. Thanks again!

oops! sorry about that should be would not suggest!

I understand your support of the moderators but that doesn't give them the right to call people names! That's very unprofessional and rude! If a moderator disagrees with a poster, he/she could send a personal message to them or simply delete the post thus keeping with the integrity of the forum guidelines. I know that my posted topic has some people upset but some people do suffer from legitimate MH issues which affects their cognitive abilities. I came up here for some information and I received plenty of well-informed suggestions and ideas so I do appreciate this board. Finally, I actually work in the MH field with a degree in Human Services Counseling. I am also a veteran with 22 years of service. I have a little bit of integrity so I would suggest someone to do something illegal or unethical but I also feel that the military should apply it's ethics and stop the aggressiveness of recruiters since they will not be around for the recruits when a situation like this happens again. Thanks ken

Can someone please ensure that moderators adhere to the same policies!

I agree Carlie! We are prepared to go the distance with this! And you asked some valid questions and gave some very imformative advise. I thank you for doing this. I will definitely stay away from anything that could harm our claim and will follow the advise of our representative while pursuing the NOD. I will also keep you informed as to how this claim process goes.

I really can't figure you out! You want to make this into something it's not! Again, you want to throw in an accusation of fraud when there is none to be had! There is no law that states that you have to give the military information about sex especially since the gender issue wasn't acted upon until she got out of the military. Therefore, there is no basis for your reasonings. Also, the military's don't ask/ don't tell policy prohibits that line of questioning that you are speaking of! The pre-enlistment physical is a mute point since she completed her enlistment honorably and the fact she didn't have a documented pre-enlisted diagnosis, she was not obligated to disclose that information. She was a male before she joined and a male when she existed the military. So please tell me your basis for fraud.

Entropent, those questions are something that I can't begin to answer because there is not much information for me determine what the rater based his decision on as far as the pre-existing of her diagnosis of depression and personality disorder other than the SMR reference while on active duty. Every other diagnosis of depression and personality disorder came after the military service. The first diagnosis came from our therapist for her having a major depressive disorder with suicidal ideation with a GAF score of 45. Next came the VA hospital therapist who first stated the depression and personality disorder as being a gender identity disorder. He also gave her a GAF score of 45. We also had the SSA therapist diagnose her with a personality disorder with depression. We were awarded SSDI for her condition. The C&P examiner focused entirely on the gender issue. The rater's decision seemed to specifically refer to the examiner's references in making his decision on denying the depression claim.

Maybe I am the one confused here! I feel the same way about the VA having no power as you say to determine that her enlistment is fraudulent! I don't understand the reference toward the Department of Defense. I just feel that the examiners were a little bias and solely focused on gender with being the cause of her depression! Being that I live with her, I would liken her condition more to being mild retardation! There is definitely a cognitive issue involved her thus requiring us to have a psychotherapist! I was also seeking comments on what a determination could render if the DRO reverses the decision based on the conditions that I stated earlier! Thanks for your inputs because this is a learning experience for me although it's quite confusing sometimes!

I feel the same way but you never know! The reasons for denial appears to be based solely on the opinions of the C&P examiners. I believe the the DRO will reverse this decision once we hit him with the presumption of soundness argument and the burden will be on them to prove that my roommate had a pre-existing condition since it's not documented upon entry into the service. I am a little confused about the denial for stomach conditions due to not having a clinical diagnosis! We have VA records with a diagnosis of IBS just this year and there is a notation in her SMR of having GERD. I guess they overlooked that! My question is, does IBS qualify as diagnosed clinical condition? Also, if the DRO reverses the decision, shouldn't depression with suicidal ideation, a gaf score of 45, IBS/GERD, and SSDI disability for depression warrant 100%? Just curious as to what these things would rate!

Sorry about that Carlie! I really don't know how to answer your question! There is no evidence of a pre-existing condition other than the statements given to the examiner during the C&P exams and during a MH evaluation by the VA! The clinic that she checked herself into really didn't provide a clinical diagnosis! How could the VA claim a fraudulent enlistment without any documentation stating otherwise? Again sorry about the misunderstanding! BTW, thanks for the info on the depression and stessor because that is something that I didn't know! I was trying to suggest a stessor for the hospitilization! Thanks again to you and everyone trying to help. I definitely am not up here to berate or argue with anyone because we all have opinions and sometimes we won't agree on things. I am glad that you brought up the argument but I never imagined that someone would take it to that next level.

My roommate was hospitalized for a week at Portsmouth Naval Hospital for depression because of issues at her command; however, the navy captain who treated her was instrumental in having her division officer reprimanded and her getting a transfer because of the officer's collaboration with the mother of her then girlfriend to keep them apart but giving her unauthorized punishments and restrictions. The doctor also gave her the chose of remaining in the service or accepting a discharge for depression. My roommate chose to stay in the military. Also, the mother of her girlfriend happened to be someone that I personally knew and once worked with so I knew how vindictive she was. She even bad mouthed me to this officer and he relayed those sentiments to my roommate and I then got involved! I personally called the officer and had a discussion with him which resulted in hanging up on me! This was flat-out harrassment of a junior subordinate thus leading to a reprimand once the facts were reported during her hospitalization. These were stressors I believe for depression in the military. My roommate was allowed to remain on active duty but was never the same afterward! There can be no fraudulent claims made since the military allowed her to continue with her military obligation with an obvious depressive state of mind! There is no pre-existing conditions in her entrance records also remember that one must go through a physical before entering the service. Again, there are perhaps thousands of young men and women serving in the military with undiagnosed conditions before entering the service. You can't deny someone entry unless they are documented! My roommate checked herself into a clinic for help; however, because of the cost, she checked herself out without receiving a proper diagnosis. You can not prosecute someone if no crime is committed! Many kids join the military out not because they want to but because they don't know what else to do! Military recruiters often convince them that they made the right choice and pressure them to follow through with their initial reaction to enlist! With no diagnosis for depression from a medical doctor, the recruiter was within his right to do so although it may not have been very wise again in my opinion! The fact is, now that she has was found totally disabled by SSA and has serious stomach and depression problems, she can't support herself and her mental capacity is more like a child now! Her gaf score was recorded by our therapist and the VA as 45. I live with her so I know what she is going through! She is no criminal just someone who wants to live and feel good about herself doing it!

I only know that both of these young men were special ed students, the marine as teen threatened to kill one of his teachers and had to be hospitalized for several weeks. He was on medications until 18 when he decided to join the corps. He always talked about wanting to kill Iraqs and when home on leave, he talked about joining Blackwater so he could go back to Iraq! The death of his friend was traumatic to him and he started drinking and had to eventually be hospitalized! The other kid, let's just say this, he is going to Iraq next month and most of us agree that he will either kill someone or come back in a body bag! The recruiters for both of these guys were relentless in persuading them to enlist! Sorry about the rant and I honestly am not sure what the military's policy for ritalin right now!

I have had time to cool off! I still disagree with you for the very fact that the VA denied her for NOT having a diagnosed condition on one of her claims! Please tell me how that's not contradicting in itself! Basically, the VA is saying, if you don't have a diagnosed condition, then there is nothing wrong with you. Almost every Government and private agency find reasons to deny veterans their benefits using bogus reasons such as "personality disorders" just to keep from paying claim. Again, I defend my roommate's claim for benefits, as a 22 year veteran myself, I believe that the military should be held accountable since they failed to provide medication thus saying it was ok for her to continue serving her country! You may think it's fraudulent but you need to address the recruiter and not the recruit because an 18 year old can easily be mislead by someone trying to meet a quota!

Please explain to me how it can be fraud if you do not have a clinical diagnosis? I stated that I do not believe that my roommate should have been admitted; however, that's my personal opinion! Nonetheless, she was admitted and she served 4 years and was discharged honorably! I know personally 2 young men who joined the Marine Corps and Army after being on Ritalin most of their lives. The military is recruiting and admitting thousands of servicemembers who should not be in. Again, this is my personal opinion! BTW, my roommate was admitted and hospitalized while on active duty with depression but the military ALLOWED her to stay so it can be argued that the military was aware of the illness and chose not to discharge her!

I think that you are way out of line here! This veteran served 4 years honorably and there is no documented pre-existing depression in her service record thus you have no basic for such a claim of dishonesty! My roommate confided that there were problems; nonethelesss, without any documented or diagnosis of depression anywhere and the fact that she served and received an honorable discharge warrants the the disability! I wish that you would reserve your comments until you know all the facts! I will see to it that my roommate gets compensation because she deserves it. BTW, I am POed about this!

Thank you so much for your help! I will certainly explore those avenues you've mention! ken

I am going to be honest with you about something! My roommate joined the Navy less than a month after cutting her wrists in a suicide attempt in 2000. Her parents are divorced and both have problems, his mother and my roommate is ADD! My roommate was living in Arkansas with her father who is an alcoholic, kicked her out and she moved into an empty house belonging to a woman in her 50's. My roommate told me that she lived in a large house but stayed in one room the whole time there which was a couple of weeks. She told me that the house was miles from anyone and she was alone and afraid thus staying in one room the whole while. She became so depressed that she took a bottle of pills and cut her wrists. She was passed out for 3 days before she woke up. She admitted herself into the Ozark Clinic in Springdale before checking herself out after a couple of days. She then moved back to Missouri with her mother who instead of helping her, insisted that she find a job and help out financially. A couple of weeks later, she joined the Navy with the assistance of a recruiter who she confided her problems with. He basically got her into the Navy by not disclosing the suicide attempt. She basically passed along boot camp and given only minimal jobs because she lacked the concentration to do certain tasks and could not hold a position of authority. My roommate was precribed ritalin as a teen but her father didn't think that she needed them. I honestly think that the depression is a manifestation of a complex array of things but certainly not being transgendered!

my roommate was honorably discharged with no diagnosed conditions. My roommates has been having stomach problems every since i have known her in 2001. I paid for therapy sessions because I felt that she needed help for depression and thoughts of suicide! The pychotherapist urged us to apply for SSDI because of her mental status. Again, he diagnosed her as having a major depressive disorder and not a personality disorder which i understand is not ratable. Again, we have a diagnosis of Irratable Bowel Syndrome from the VA doctor's notes along with a 2001 service record diagnosis of GERD. Do you suppose someone missed this in the doctor's notes? I summited our psychological evaluation from the therapist along with other documents i had in my position at the time. Yes, he is a non-VA doctor! I don't understand at all why they would base a decision on the C&P examiners when there is clearly a "chronic" stomach condition of 6 years with a recent diagnosis of IBS and there is definitely a depressive issue acknowledged by everyone.

I thought that the claim was pretty much iron-clad; however, the rater seemed to use the opinion of the c&p examiners who seemed bias in my opinion to pretty much deny the claim. One note to this matter is, my roommate is transgendered which seems to make all the difference in the world as to how this claim was decided. My roommate had 3 medical conditions for which compensation was filed, first, acne vulgaris which was rated at 0% and is probably acceptable given the reasons state. Second, my roommate has an extensive treatment record for depression and was granted SSDI for having depression along with a personality disorder. And finally, stomach problems which has been occuring since 2001. We have a psychotherapist who gave my roommate a gaf score of 45 along with a diagnosis of major depressive disorder. My roommate has been treated at the VA hospital in Hampton, Va. for depression and stomach problems as well. Can someone please explain to me why the VA denied this claim as I will type what the letter states. Service connection may be granted for a disability which began in military service or was caused by some event or experience in service. Your service medical records show you were diagnosed with or treated for signs and symptoms of depression and personality disorder while on active duty. A disability which began in service or was caused by some event in service must be considered "chronic" before service connection can be granted. Social Security Adminstration records show that you have personality disorder with depression. At the Department of Veteran Affairs examination on June 4, 2007 (Just a 10 min examination) you revealed you continue to have depressive moods. The examiner noted that you are in transition from male to female. After extensive interview the examiner determined that your depression is related to your gender confusion that pre-existed your active duty service. Service connection for depression is denied since this condition neither occurred in nor was caused by the service. My roommate was hospitalized while on active duty for depression because of problems with a girlfriend and had suicidal ideation noted in the medical notes from his visit. I think that the VA is overlooking the depression and wants to pin it all on something that S(he) decided to pursue after the military. I have know my roommate for 6 years now and the gender issue is clouding the depressive issue which should warrant in my opinion a rating of 70% according to my research. We are filing a NOD of course. Also, for the stomach problems they wrote. Service connection may be granted to a disability which began in the military service or was caused by some event or experience in service. Service connectiion for stomach problems is denied because the medical evidence of record fails to show that this disability has been clinically diagnosed. (We have a diagnosis from the VA as IBS in March, 2007, also GERD from roommates military treatment records.) Your service medical records show you were diagnosed with and treated for stomach problems that did not result in chronic residuals ( what! almost 6 years) A disability which began in service or was caused by some event in service (minocycline related) must be considered "chronic" before service connection can be granted. At the Department of Veterans examination of June 4, 2007 you revealed you continue to have epigastric pain. The examiner did not find any evidence of stomach problems and did not render a diagnosis. (This was a joke, i watched the examiner just rub my roommates stomach and asked how it felt) Medical evidence of record fails to show that you have a current diagnosis of stomach problems that has been clinically related to your active duty. Service connection for stomach problems is denied. I am about to file my own claim for my back but this is really disturbing to me! I am the payee representative for my roommate because SSA determined that she can't make financial decisions based on her disability. It is a shame that they treat veterans this way and even the treatment at the VA hospital has been quite rude for my roommate. I met my roommate in 2001 while in the reserves. At the time, he had a girlfriend and only after he got out of the Navy did he reveal his desire to become a female; nonetheless, the depression issues were already there and he attempted suicide while on active duty(which is documented also). My roommate recently changed her name to a female name so I will not disrespect her anymore by using his/him/he, but my point is, depression is not being treated seriously enough by the VA! Can someone please tell me what they think and the best way to approach this denial letter. Thank you! ken