Questions Re: Ms & Viet Nam/ Need Opinions Please

[57tom]

I have MS and I was stationed in Germany in 1976-1977. As I am reading about MS and vets, it seems that Agent Orange was the factor if a vet was stationed in VietNam. Those appear to be the vets that are successful in receiving compensation.

I don't think I came in contact with Agent Orange because I was in Germany.

I received the immunizations of who knows what. I was also gassed a few times in training

Do I even bother to apply?

How would I answer the question of "how is my disability related to my service in the military"?

Are there any other factors that I am unaware of?

I've just begun looking into all of this.

Thanks-

[Berta]

Great advise here- having some proof of symptoms within that 7 year after discharge period will be critical to your claim-

Dr. Bash ,the IMO doc who Allan mentioned,has MS himself.

This case shows how correct Allan is is the symptom factor-

http://www.va.gov/vetapp08/files2/0812853.txt

"FINDINGS OF FACT

1. An unappealed July 1977 rating decision denied service

connection for multiple sclerosis essentially based on

findings that there was no confirmed diagnosis of multiple

sclerosis within the postservice presumptive period for such

disease.

2. Evidence received since the July 1977 rating decision,

including a letter from a private neurologist stating that

the veteran likely had multiple sclerosis dating back to

1970, relates to previously unestablished elements necessary

to substantiate the claim seeking service connection for

multiple sclerosis, and raises a reasonable possibility of

substantiating the claim.

3. The record contains competent medical evidence indicating

that the veteran's multiple sclerosis was incurred within

seven years following his discharge from service."

Buddy statements and family statements of symptoms consistent with MS could be very helpful to you-if they can be detailed as happening within the 7 year presumptive period.

This next BVA decision (award for MS) shows what we mean:

http://www.va.gov/vetapp08/files1/0808726.txt

These claims need a strong medical opinion as well as proof (by medical or lay testimony) of symptoms consistent with MS within the 7 years.

[allan]

I had Dr's explain that my MRI looked like buckshot holes throughout the brain that showed like bright white spots. I've had VA Dr's & students say that it normal & not to be concerned about it. Physical therapists, Eye Dr's & PCP's continually stated symptoms of MS & treated me for it for well over a decade.

VA neurologists said, normal brain, ischemia, gleosis & demiolynation & one said id was psychosomatic. They mostly pressed that I was normal and should get over it attitude.

After a decade or so, the VA neurologists gave a final diagnoses of TBI. All VA neurologists refused to view past & even current treatment records. I've been told since that I have both MS & TBI.

Dr bash started with all my service records & view all the years of medical treatment records I had.

Since I bought a copy of the first MRI films the VA took, he determined I had MS & it started in service. First symptoms started in boot camp at age 19(1967).

One thing I would like to add in Dr Bash's favor is that he worked for the National Institute of Medicine for about 10 or 15 yrs doing lab tests on how to diagnose MS with an MRI. He helped write the research books on it.

This was very helpful to me in order to rule out or rule in MS, as I feel the VA neurologists have VARO's best interest at heart & not the patient. They may not like the fact that I used someone with Bash's experience to submit for an IMO, but then again "any" Imo I send in or VA C&P they've sent me for, that was favorable, they've had a problem with.

[57tom]

My claim was denied - what do I do next?

This are the VA reasons:

"Review of your service treatment records were negative for any complaints, treatment, or diagnosis of MS during your military service."

(At 18 I didn't even know what MS was, let alone know what any of the symptoms were. If I had any slight symptoms, I would have blown them off. So this doesn't seem very unusual to me.)

"Review of the cited treatment records show that you first sought treatment at the VA in 2002, at which time you reported and 18 year history of MS."

(I never sought treatment at the VA because I always had private health insurance. Prior to 2002 I had been taking weekly injections of Avonex for quite a few years. When I first went to VA I reported an 18 year history, I had been estimating - the doctor asked, and I said 18 years. I wasn't concerned about being totally accurate, that wasn't important at the time. But 18 years would have been 1984-ish and my 7 year cut off would have been June 84. With private insurance I was paying $225 a month out of pocket just for the injections. Once VA changed some of their income requirements, I could get the injections throught them for $7, up until then my imcome was too high.)

Review of the letter from Dr. XXXXX notes that your private medical records from 1977 to 1990 are no longer available. He reported that from 1977 to 1982 you presented several times with numbness that initially was undetermined. He further reports that eventually a diagnosis of MS was suspected in 1983 or 84 a diagnosis of MS was confirmed. Furthermore, Dr. XXX notes that in his opinion, you exhibited early symptoms of relapsing remitting MS in the early 1980's.

(This was the nexxus letter that I got. It is true that ALL medical records have been destroyed from the doctor's office, neurologist, and the hospital due to the fact that is was so long ago. Nothing exists for me to go after. Only this one doctor who had treated my back then and that I still know.)

"There is no medical evidence showing the date of the confirmed diagnosis of MS. Therefore, service connection for MS is denied since this condition neither occured in nor was caused by service nor manifested to a compensable degree within any applicable presumptive period."

(I thought you just had to prove you had symptoms within 7 years after discharge not a confirmed diagnosis. I'm confused.)

What is my next step? Thanks everyone for you ideas.

[allan]

57tom,

your denial is typical from the VARO level.

["Review of your service treatment records were negative for any complaints, treatment, or diagnosis of MS during your military service."]

You can expect the VARO level to play this card every time, unless you point out in a NOD or appeal that you only need to have a showing of "symptoms" during service & 7 yrs following. They know it. But if you don't call them on it they will continue to use it to deny you.

["There is no medical evidence showing the date of the confirmed diagnosis of MS. Therefore, service connection for MS is denied since this condition neither occurred in nor was caused by service nor manifested to a compensable degree within any applicable presumptive period."

(I thought you just had to prove you had symptoms within 7 years after discharge not a confirmed diagnosis. I'm confused.)]

1) you must prove symptoms during service or 7 yrs following.

2) you must prove you have a "current" diagnoses of MS.

3) you must have a nexus or link connecting the two. A C&P examination or medical opinion should do it.

Medical records are generally kept 5 yrs at facilities. Some keep them 10 yrs.

If you have "NO" medical records during service or the seven yrs following service showing MS, than you will not likely win your claim.

Don't worry about the dates you throw out that are not accurate. The VARO raters & some BVA raters will play on it, but it won't likely stand.

Everything they denied on, you must counter attack in your NOD or appeal.

A strong favorable medical opinion is what you need along with records to support it.

Have you checked for eye examination & hearing loss records along with medical treatment records?

There are many eye conditions associated with MS & Optometrists may keep their records longer.

My service records show I had vision loss, than gained it back, than lost it again. Fluctuating vision, blurred vision, double vision, occular inflamation are all symptoms of MS. Check your SMR eye records carefully. Also your hearing examinations during service.

Maybe you worked somewhere or had insurance examinations that may have some records.

If your symptoms did not show at all until the seven yr period following service & you have no records to submit to support your claim, it's not likely the VA will grant. You must have the records.