Do I Have A CUE Claim?

[ljl]

I had no note of any issues with my back upon entrance nor any prior medical records of any kind. I worked as an aircraft structural technician for almost five years. I'm a woman and weighed around 115 lbs at the time. We carried 70 lb tool boxes routinely.

There is a note in my service medical records of my going to the ER or doctor with a complaint of a back injury that mentions that I felt it was caused by carrying a 70 lb tool box. I was told to wear a brace and they probably gave me something for the pain (I don't remember the details but it's in my claims file).

It was the only incident mentioned during service but I've had chronic issues with my back since.

I filed a disability application for the back condition within three months of separation and was denied. I didn't appeal (I was young and dumb), and the claim for that condition was closed. My ratings decision and denial letter stated simply that the condition "was not incurred in service".

Do I have a CUE claim? It goes back to 1990.

Edited January 8, 2022 by ljl
needed to add additional details

[pwrslm]

45 minutes ago, ljl said:

My biggest obstacle is the lack of medical records from 30 years ago. I just don't have them anymore. 

I had no treatment records spanning over 30 years. This is why you must gather lay statements. Family and friends can do this for you, so can ex-employers or people you worked with if they are willing. I toughed it out most of the time. The medical records that did exist were destroyed after 7 years, just like you. I could not afford medical care in the end, that is why I went to get help from the VA.

 

 

If you just drag your mouse over the sentence you want to quote you will get a pop up to quote that, so just click it and it is automatic.

Edited January 10, 2022 by pwrslm

[ljl]

2 hours ago, pwrslm said:

If you just drag your mouse over the sentence you want to quote you will get a pop up to quote that, so just click it and it is automatic.

It worked! Thanks.

Yes, I'll get lay statements to fill in for what's  missing. I should send some in to supplement the follow up claim I  just sent in also. Great advice from someone who's lived it.

Since I became eligible for care from the VA I've been avoiding care with the exception of what I'm able to receive locally through Community Care. I need to go to the dentist and keep putting it off because of all of the horror stories I've heard about VA medical care.

I saw a civilian occupational therapist once and she had me do this stretch where I would rest one knee on a chair standing up and pull my other leg, holding my foot, up behind me. One day I felt a powerful electrical-like shock go up one leg and down the other. I haven't been back since. It really scared me.

Thank you again!

 

[Rivet62]

5 hours ago, pwrslm said:

I had no treatment records spanning over 30 years. This is why you must gather lay statements. Family and friends can do this for you, so can ex-employers or people you worked with if they are willing. I toughed it out most of the time. The medical records that did exist were destroyed after 7 years, just like you. I could not afford medical care in the end, that is why I went to get help from the VA.

Me too. My initial claim ended at an 80% combined service connect. It's not impossible.

[Rivet62]

On 1/8/2022 at 12:58 PM, ljl said:

I had no note of any issues with my back upon entrance nor any prior medical records of any kind. I worked as an aircraft structural technician for almost five years. I'm a woman and weighed around 115 lbs at the time. We carried 70 lb tool boxes routinely.

There is a note in my service medical records of my going to the ER or doctor with a complaint of a back injury that mentions that I felt it was caused by carrying a 70 lb tool box. I was told to wear a brace and they probably gave me something for the pain (I don't remember the details but it's in my claims file).

It was the only incident mentioned during service but I've had chronic issues with my back since.

I was an aircraft structural repair technician in the AF. My back was my main claim, yet depression is what I rated highest for (based on pain). Your claim sounds similar to mine. Don't forget tinnitus and don't forget to get hearing tests if you worked by running jet engines. Look at the whole thing. Radiculopathy? Osteo arthritis? Headaches? Disc Degenerative Disease? Insomnia due to pain? There are other possible connections you may not be aware of.

On 1/8/2022 at 12:58 PM, ljl said:

I had no note of any issues with my back upon entrance nor any prior medical records of any kind.

I used my Mom's lay statement, that I had no back problems prior to entering, and no problems noted in primary school screenings or doctor's visits. 

On 1/8/2022 at 12:58 PM, ljl said:

I'm a woman and weighed around 115 lbs at the time. We carried 70 lb tool boxes routinely.

If you can get someone that you worked with to recall the weight of the toolbox and/or the tools themselves and write a testament of what they recall it would help.  Sometimes you can find them on veterans' forum sites for specific military bases, in your case ships, or specific occupations.

Secondary school records are helpful. For me, I had to see the clinic at my university to inquire about a campus-based handicap placard because I couldn't carry my books or navigate the stairs with a rolling bag. Just myriad little things like that can help show the whole picture.

I also had an MD make a statement that I was physically out of range for my AFSC(MOS), based on National Institute of Health guidelines, and simply that "damage to the spine cannot be discounted." It's based on height and body weight vs load bearing.

I might have you beat on the body weight versus load bearing weight. I entered service at 105lbs and had to have an official weight waiver to join, as 109 was the weight minimum for my height and weight at that time, they then placed me in one of the heaviest occupations in my branch of service, which is why I am here in this forum right now. 

I was very young when I entered. Nothing more than a grass blade really. Take a look at your entry physical vs your discharge physical. I was surprised to find that I grew 3 inches! Subsequent records showed me gaining in height. My body was still growing but taking on weight bearing beyond reason. I brought attention to these facts in my own lay statement.

On 1/8/2022 at 12:58 PM, ljl said:

There is a note in my service medical records of my going to the ER or doctor with a complaint of a back injury that mentions that I felt it was caused by carrying a 70 lb tool box. I was told to wear a brace and they probably gave me something for the pain (I don't remember the details but it's in my claims file).

It was the only incident mentioned during service but I've had chronic issues with my back since.

I wonder if your records show ongoing use of pain medicine, or even the suggestion of pain management, or follow up in orthopedics? What about frequently missed work or frequent appointments? Any mention of depression in service? Any record of light duty? Any supervisor or co-worker or friends that received letters from you stating problems with chronic pain? 

I notice you were a Seaman. I have read, elsewhere, that there are difficulties getting proper treatment when you're on a ship. Could that be the reason you lacked proper follow up?  BTW, every single physical therapist and doctor I have ever seen has been against the use of a back brace for pain reduction over time because it makes your back worse they say. They say that your back muscles are weakened if the spine relies on the brace and not muscles.  Lifting using a brace is ok.

You have to bridge the 20+ year gap. Lay statements from boyfriends or husbands or sons and daughters or friends that have witnessed your back difficulties over time. Has anyone rubbed your back because of pain? Can you push a grocery cart easily without pain that triggers a flare up of muscle spasms, or did you ask for help? Help with laundry baskets, or grocery bags?

On 1/8/2022 at 12:58 PM, ljl said:

It was the only incident mentioned during service but I've had chronic issues with my back since.

Thank God I stayed on speaking terms, even friendly terms with ex-spouses one of whom worked on the flightline with me.  I knew no one else after all those years.

Like Broncovet said in another thread, that your lay statements are usable if they are evidence within the scope of the witness. He put it so simply, but basically a credible lay statement would be like a wife noticing you can't cut the yard anymore, but you could before service.

One of the things that I found very helpful, or at least I think it helped, was using MyHealth eVet messaging. If you get your care at a VA then you can message your symptoms and how it happened in service. For me, I stated how twisting and exerting and lifting hurt me. This was entered into my VA medical record and all the doctors I saw within my VAMC could see it, and they followed up. That helped them and me follow through with tests or treatments.  I think it can help you arrive at a "at least as likely as not" conclusion.

I got into VAMC healthcare 30 years after discharge on a Category 7 enrollment (poor income), and I had social workers in the vets' homeless shelter where I stayed that acted as liaisons to the VAMC social workers. That's how I became aware that I could look to the VA medical center for help. If that is not your situation, then if you served during the time of the gulf war then I would pay a visit to the OEF OIF social workers at a VAMC and ask for help with VA care. Or, see if you can get guidance on care from the VSO's offices at a VAMC. Another resource for VA healthcare enrollment is your state's Department of Veterans Affairs. Yet another is your state's local Vocational Rehabilitation office, they helped me by paying for appointments to assess whether or not I was eligible for their services (this was before my time at a VAMC).

I have read that the VA has discontinued Category 7 across the entire system, but do verify that because I'm not sure if that was proposed or enacted. Just submit an application for enrollment (if you're not already in) and don't take the word of anyone that says you're ineligible. And even if VA did eliminate Cat 7 enrollment, just apply anyway. You get a form to fill out and you mail it in.

 

Edited January 11, 2022 by Rivet62

[Rivet62]

On 1/9/2022 at 8:03 AM, pwrslm said:

Getting this info before you submit the claim is pre-emptive. Even the VA medical examiners tend to agree with a logical etiology that already exists in the records.

Yes! That's a good way to put it. This 'etiology,' as you say, is one of the benefits of using MyHealth eVet messaging. You can state symptoms, and state how you believe it happened in service, and this goes in the VA medical record and doctors notice and they follow up. Pre-emptive IS THE WORD. 

[Rivet62]

On 1/9/2022 at 8:03 AM, pwrslm said:

Etiology is the study of the causes, origins, or reasons behind the back pain, and/or the reason for the dysfunction, so it can refer to what the cause was (i.e. medical records from 30 years ago demonstrate a back problem, and the normal progression from the old injury is what we see today, so the two are more likely than not/definitely related).

So aside from the common suggestion of getting an outside medical opinion, what would be the specialist to see I wonder?  Is it simply an Etiologist I wonder? 

I am in the process of getting a referral to see a physiatrist, suggested by my own VA primary care doctor because I think I have more than just one pinched nerve. A physiatrist is a notch up from a physical therapist, and what they do is sensation tests in specific zones across extremities that indicate which vertebra is involved that's producing pinched nerve symptoms. That to me seems the quickest way toward nerve conduction studies. That way, the primary care doctor is not on a goose chase. My doctor suggested it.

Edited January 11, 2022 by Rivet62