U.s. Health Care System Is 'dysfunctional Mess,' Prominent Federal Ethicist Says

[huskerfanfl]

I hate to disagree with what you all have said, but there are some basic facts that need to be considered. Years, ago, I was working with a Canadian NonCom at Fort Knox. I asked him about the universal health care that is in place in Canada. He noted two problems. First, the cost was passed on to the individual tax payer. He laughed when I noted that many Americans feel that they pay so much in taxes. The other problem that he noted was that it took quite a long time to get an appointment, not only with your primary care doctor, but appointment with specialists could take up to a year (if they are even approved). One only needs to look at how HMOs operate to understand that this is probably the ugly truth.

To assume that if the businesses did not have to provide health coverage would increase a workers wages, while nice in principal, is unlikely to happen. We have all probably complained about high gas prices and the amount of profit that those companies are making, yet they are still making the profit. That is capitalsim at work folks, the American way.

I agree that we need to fix our health care systme, but universal health care will not work. We need to find a way to set up clinics throughout the country where people can come to receive treatment. These clinics need to be overseen by a doctir, but lets face it, most complaints can be handled by someone who has the same training as a medic. There are people out there who are on mediccare and medicaid who go to the doctor if they have the sniffles. If you set up clinics, then you can have someone there to hand out cold medicine rather than have these people see a doctor.

I guess what I am saying is that I agree with universal health care, I just do not agree with universal health insurance using the current medical system that is in place today.

[Jay Johnson]

I hate to disagree with what you all have said, but there are some basic facts that need to be considered. Years, ago, I was working with a Canadian NonCom at Fort Knox. I asked him about the universal health care that is in place in Canada. He noted two problems. First, the cost was passed on to the individual tax payer. He laughed when I noted that many Americans feel that they pay so much in taxes. The other problem that he noted was that it took quite a long time to get an appointment, not only with your primary care doctor, but appointment with specialists could take up to a year (if they are even approved). One only needs to look at how HMOs operate to understand that this is probably the ugly truth.

To assume that if the businesses did not have to provide health coverage would increase a workers wages, while nice in principal, is unlikely to happen. We have all probably complained about high gas prices and the amount of profit that those companies are making, yet they are still making the profit. That is capitalsim at work folks, the American way.

I agree that we need to fix our health care systme, but universal health care will not work. We need to find a way to set up clinics throughout the country where people can come to receive treatment. These clinics need to be overseen by a doctir, but lets face it, most complaints can be handled by someone who has the same training as a medic. There are people out there who are on mediccare and medicaid who go to the doctor if they have the sniffles. If you set up clinics, then you can have someone there to hand out cold medicine rather than have these people see a doctor.

I guess what I am saying is that I agree with universal health care, I just do not agree with universal health insurance using the current medical system that is in place today.

No offense, but I'm guessing your opinions on this were shaped by conservative propaganda. Canada may not be the best health care system in the world, but it is ranked higher than ours in almost every category and, more importantly, the level of care is static; whereas, in America, we have greatly varying care based on economic status.

Australia is known as one of the best health care systems in the world and is universal in nature. Ask ANY US doctor who's been there to compare the two systems. Most of Europe has universal health care and every country over there has better health care than we do. In fact, our highest rated health care insurance in this country is ChampVA, Medicare and Tricare (all government run).

As for taxes - Most countries with universal health care systems pay an equal, or lower, tax rate than we currently do and their economies are doing fine. It is simply fiscal conservative spin that makes us believe that universal health care is going to cost us a bunch of money in taxes....sure, our taxes would likel go up, but government run health care is FAR more efficient than private health care so, overall, it would cost the American public less. The difference is that the top 1% of Americans would have to shoulder the brunt of the health care system's cost (oh, boohoo for them, they can't get that 4th house in malibu).

Right now, we have a system that is worried about profit and NOT health care; which is counterintuitive. How many lives could we save if we gave breast cancer screens to women under 30?? How many lives could we save if we gave prostate screens under 30?? 10's of thousands EASY....But, the insurance companies have done the calculations and they know that screening for something that only a VERY small portion of Americans get under 30 isn't cost effective.....it's cheaper to let those people contract the disease and to treat the disease instead of testing everyone. In other words, it's fiscally more responsible to let 10,000 people die every year because it helps their bottom line.

This is the STANDARD practice in private health care......100's of thousands die every year because companies are more worried about MONEY than they are human life, which is abhorrent. Some things were simply not meant to be privatized and our health is one of them. I don't want to watch my young child die, because some Ahole at an insurance company thought the cost/benefit ratio on a given test wasn't worth the money.

Private health care is the most vicious and hateful thing this country has ever produced, period. To top it of, it is horribly inefficient (twice as costly as medicare per capita) and is terribly ineffective, yet we continue with it for fear of "evil taxes" or some ridiculous notion that the government will put microchips in our brains. In my opinion, we need less fear mongering and more common sense.

P.S. - Your pay WOULD go up under unviersal health care....companies are going bankrupt at the moment trying to pay for health care they cannot afford. If the burden is put on the state, companies WILL make more money. I may not subcribe to the trickle down method of economics, but it would translate to *some* wage increase to help make up for any tax increase. By the way, the ONLY reason the conservatives are starting to support the idea of unviersal health care is that many powerful and rich people (IE - fiscal conservatives) are starting to see how much health insruance is killing their companies; hence the more recent support for the idea.

[huskerfanfl]

Jay,

No offense taken, but your ideas are obviously shaped by the liberal ideologies. I mean no offense by that becuase I feel that one ideology would be dangerous. As I stated in my previous post, if you get past the "conservative" slant of what was written, I am all for universal health care and for the government taking the lead, I just feel that we are missing the mark by not setting up health clinics.

By the way, my views on Canadian health coverage were based on speaking to users of the system not to Republicans.

[Jay Johnson]

Jay,

No offense taken, but your ideas are obviously shaped by the liberal ideologies. I mean no offense by that becuase I feel that one ideology would be dangerous. As I stated in my previous post, if you get past the "conservative" slant of what was written, I am all for universal health care and for the government taking the lead, I just feel that we are missing the mark by not setting up health clinics.

By the way, my views on Canadian health coverage were based on speaking to users of the system not to Republicans.

I'm not trying to turn this into a liberal v. conservative thing; rather, it's just "fiscal" conservatism that drives a lot of the stereotypes associated with universal health care. The thing I speak about are not "liberal" in any way....I've worked in the field and I get my information from non-bias groups like the WHO (and a recent report from another neutral source which made our health care system out to be even worse than the WHO's reports).

The simple fact of the matter is that 90% of Americans cannot afford health care on their own....we need to be subsidized by the government or, in our current case, our employers. Now, that doesn't mean that we need one, gigantic VA-like system that is run by the government, in which all health care employees are employed by the government. Rather, we need a single payer insurance that is based on one's income level that covers everyone equally.

Personally, I don't care for systems "run" by the government...I want my health care providers to remain private, but we absolutely NEED a system that covers everyone equally. This would benefit the average American most and, in my opinion, would help veterans a LOT by doing away with the clunky, under funded VA system that keeps much needed dollars out of the compensation system and puts it into the VA health care system.

Simply put, if you're a disabled veteran you go directly into "exempt" insurance status, which would mean NO copays at all (anyone under a given economic line would also fall under this status). Essentially, we need a better Tricare like system that is regulated by the government and that covers EVERYONE in the US....this insurance system should base enrollment fees and copays on one's income level. With that sort of system taxes would go up VERY little, if at all, and we would still have plenty of local choices for private providers.

I believe many European countries use a similar system.....I could be wrong, but I think Australia's is that way also.

[john999]

Medicare is a success. Universal health care is not socialism. Every modern society except the USA has universal health care of some sort. We have over 50 million uninsured people in the USA. What kind of society do we have where some sick children are denied health care and at the same time a CEO gets 100 million dollars a year and lives like a King? Societies are judged by how the old and poor are treated, and by that token we don't rate very high. We are headed toward a society of haves and have nots. The way the private medical field is run is that your doctor becomes a walking cash register whose overriding concern is making money. That does not appeal to me. The private medical field is owned and operated by insurance companies whose only motive is profit. There are many in our society who cannot get medical insurance at any price. I am really disgusted with our medical system as you can tell. It is always about money with these guys. When sick and uninsured people end up at the emergency room we all pay anyway unless you want them dying on the curb. I want to live in a civilized society not a dog eat dog jungle.

[Pete53]

Follow the money and you will see who has a vested interest in keeping this system the way it is. The Lawyers, Insurance Companies, Doctors, Drug Companies and the list goes on. I heard on National News the other day that pharmacies and their minions make 46% of the contributions that feed the politicians.

I think that Campaign FInance Reform might herlp more than anything I have heard of.

By the way there is a Health System in place like Canada and England in place. Its called the VA Medical System.