The Va Taketh Away Faster Than They Giveth...

[free_spirit_etc]

A couple of months ago I looked up the regs -- and it said that the Va payment for the month of death is a right of the widow.

I got the VA letter - and it said to call the tool-free number - so I did.

I was told that I had to send in a statement of claim asking to be allowed to keep the February payment -and that it NOT be reclaimed.

I have since closed my joint bank account with my husband. (AT&T was taking money out, but was not authorized to do so - and was not even applying it to our phone bill - so who knows who authorized them to take it out -or where it was going -- I just closed the account - and still have to sort things out with AT&T -which is hard because the fact they are taking money out of OUR bank account is NOT recorded to OUR phone bill - so I haven't found anyone to trace it yet).

Anyway - I Have a personal account with the same bank - which I opened after my husband's death.

Today I called to ask why my avaliable amount is reduced by $225..

The VA has a hold on it. Since our joint account is no longer open - the VA is reclaiming the payment for the month of death from MY account.

Geez!!

It is amazing how fast they can do THAT!!

Too bad they can't pay that fast....

And they wasted MY time and THEIR time - sending me letters telling me to call - and answering my call - and telling me what to do to keep the funds --if they were going to take them back and make me send in another claim to add to their backlog to get the $225 back.

I will have to say it is NOT just the VA --

I have gotten the run-around from Social Security (who - since my son is disabled (autism) --and on SSI - reduced his SSI benefits by 1/3 because he was living with us and receiving support from my husband -- but when he applied for SSD on my husband's record denied him -- because he was not living with my husband or receving support from him (????) The same dang office -- and one cuts his benefits because of my husband's support and one denied him benefits because my husband wasn't supporting him..., the mortgage company, the credit card company who took two months to close my husband's account while fraudulent charges were being added to his card, --well -- pretty much everyone...

Again, it is the no acountability issue -- a world full of toll free numbers in which no one is responsible for what they tell you - so they just tell you anything.

I am tired........

Free

[free_spirit_etc]

I haven't filed for DIC yet.

Maybe you vets should copy http://www.warms.vba.va.gov/admin21/m21_1/...4/chg216err.doc

and keep it with important papers -- so hopefully your spouse won't have them sucking money out when they least expect it.

Now IF I had filed DIC WHEN I ask for his month of death payment -then they wait until the DIC is decided. How many years should you wait for $225??

But if you DON'T file DIC at the time -- and later GET DIC -- then they will take the $225 OFF the amount I would get later --IF I get it.

If you wait a year to file DIC - you get to keep the month of death payment (I imagine because if you wait a year - you give up retro. As long as I file DIC in a year -- they will go back 12 months if awarded).

But the reglations CLEARLY tell the RO what to do if there is a spouse.

THEY are supposed to complete the VA Form 119 - and then let Finance know NOT to reclaim the money - or if it has been reclaimed already - have finance issue a check.

But when I called to report his death - they told me there wasn't any payment to the surviving spouse - that it all goes back.

But then they sent me a letter (form letter) that said if you are the surviving spouse you may be entitled to the last payment and call the toll-free number.

At first the woman acted like there was no such thing as the widow getting the last payment --then she changed her mind...and said I got to keep it -- But then she decided I should fill out something -- but couldn't decide what - so they wouldn't take the money back.

I told her the VA 119 -but she said that was an in house form --and just told me to fill out a statement of claim.

Now - several months later -- with NO warning from the VA OR the Bank -- they put a reclaim on my money.

I was checking my account balance online -- and my available balance was less than it should be - with nothing recorded.. So I called. THEY didn't know. But she said she had to "Dig" to find it. Apparently they haven't TAKEN the money out yet -- but have placed a hold on it.

What gets me is I opened a DIFFERENT account in my name only. I left the joint account open. Well - THEY left it open --because I tried to close it - and they thought I should leave it open for awhile.

But the account didn't have hardly any money in it - I had wiped it out to pay for the funeral. But somehow - and I still don't know how -- AT&T started debiting the joint account. Last month they took funds out -- and this month there weren't enough funds - so they charged a $20 service fee TWICE --for an automatic debit I didn't even authorize. (Can't get anywhere with AT&T yet -- as the debit isn't connected to OUR phone --but I will keep tracking that down).

So I went in to CLOSE the account. And the bank suggested I turn OFF the PHONE.

Yep. That will solve my problem. If I turn off my phone --then AT&T will stop debiting my acount for some bill that isn't even mine.

I finally got them to close the account and reverse the service fees..

But --if it had been a legit charge --they didn't even bother to take money from my other account for THAT.

That is what I questioned today..

How can you debit MY account for a charge to the OTHER account - especially when you charged me $20 to BOUNCE and $18 debit from the joint account when it WAS open? You didn't take money out of MY account THEN!

She said that this is different --that this is the GOVERNMENT --with a Big G. SO since I had been named on the OTHER account -- they could put the block on MY account.

I haven't seen their rule that says that yet. That is just what I was told.

But what they are telling me is that if my name was on another account at the bank -and that account is closed --they can suck it out of my own account..

And what ticks me off is that the VA placed a hold on my money on Monday --but neither them or my bank notified me --until I called today (Thursday) and asked -and then they had to "dig" to find out why I didn't have the available balance I should have.

Free

How is it that the VA has dipped their hands into an account that was NOT linked to the vets claim?

Surely this is not legal, is it?!?!?

Is there some loophole because the spouse filed for DIC which somehow makes any account of hers free game for VA to deduct funds? Someone please explain this to me. I have my VA sent directly to a joint savings account but I also have other checking accounts at the same bank (our personal and spouse's business checking accounts). I surely don't want to put the other checking accounts at any risk - that could cost a lot of money bouncing checks if you didn't know they were going to take money out of an account. Makes me wonder if I should open a savings account at another bank entirely just for my VA payments.

I am appalled that the VA can apparently attach ANY account with the same bank. Someone please tell me this is an error covered under some regulation preventing the VA from just taking money from anywhere they please or why it is legit in this situation.

This whole thing boggles my mind.

Thanks,

ts

[free_spirit_etc]

Hopefully your two accounts are at different banks. Because the account they are sucking it out of is MINE --the account it was deposited in was OURS -- and that account is closed.

FREE

That is the drawback of Direct Deposit. Any entity who wire transfers funds to an account has the right to do a reversal.That is why I have 2 accounts and once the payment hits one, it automatically goes to the other.

[free_spirit_etc]

Nope - haven't even gotten around to filing for DIC yet. The VA Should NOT even HAVE my personal bank account number. I guess when they tried to reclaim it from our joint account --and that was closed - the bank just transferred the reclamation over to MY account.

Sure don't know why they couldn't have told the VA the account was closed --and let them bill me.

According to the regs -- the VA should send a form to Finance IF the money has been reclaimed -and have them issue me a check..

But we will see how much they screw that up - because they SHOULD have just filled out the correct form and not reclaimed it in the first place - instead of telling me to send in a statement in support of claim which is probably now taking up space in the backlog of claims in Chicago.

I still need to GO to the bank and discuss their "policy." But they told me it was because it was the Government.

Now this worries me because my husband's retirement check also was deposited into our joint account. When I called the Retiree Pay folks -they said that I got to keep the February payment because it was really the payment for January.

But that is just what they SAID. So --based on what happened - if they decide different - that means they can just come back without telling me and suck the money out of MY account.

A creditor has to get a JUDGEMENT -- and give you time to PAY before they can attach your bank account.

But I guess the government can just TELL you that you can KEEP the money --and then swoop in and take it back any time they damn well please...

Free

Free changed bank accounts. She closed the account to which direct deposit was going to. The only way I think they could dip into her new account is that she is drawing DIC and has direct deposit set up for payment of the DIC.

Outside of that I do not think they can do what they have done. I would raise hell with the bank.

[free_spirit_etc]

Your kindness is much appreciated. I read your post and then went for a walk and cried for awhile --and felt a little better.

Thank you,

Free

Free,

Sometimes the world just seems to keep on spinning and doesn't change. It's either hang on or be flung aside. I'm sorry you have had to go through all the Cr*p with the VA and SSA. It really seems to me that it should be a much friendlier and kinder place.

What a crock over $225.00. Right when you think it is over and now it's time for a break and for people to be conpassionate... you - get to start a whole new series of forms and regulations. The system is certainly not for those who are in need of aid, or are ill, or could really use a port in the storm. The system is 100% mechanical, no human factor left. Sad, bacause that's really what it's all about, helping those who need help. Gee Wiz, I think the whole point of the VA system, has been lost. It just breaks your heart.

Hang in there,

Jangrin

[Berta]

It has been over a decade since I dealt with this but as I recall vividly- the VA took the amount of Rod's last VA comp check out of our account within weeks of his death.

I think the regs at the time provided recovery of the deceased last check only if determined as part of any of the eventual accrued award.

This statement seems to interpret the regs differently then what the VA is telling you:

it is a ways down the article-from Indiana VSO Association

http://www.invsoa.homestead.com/

http://209.85.165.104/custom?q=cache:p35rx...988506854078#26

One other thing Free- you mentioned that you have not filed formally for DIC-

I know how long that form is and all it requires but once they get it, that part is over with-

Do you have a service officer yet?

The formal DIC application and all the stuff they want (marriage licence, Death Certificate, etc etc-)even if they have this already anyhow-

establishes the widow as the surviving spouse of the veteran.

I am wondering if they have to have the DIC form first before they will accept a letter asking for recovery of the last check your husband got.

[free_spirit_etc]

Berta, I wasn't able to open the article from the Indiana Vets site. I can open the main page.

The regulation M21-1, Part IV 26.02. states:

http://www.warms.vba.va.gov/admin21/m21_1/...4/chg216err.doc

(a) Requests over the phone must be recorded on VA Form 119, “Report of Contact” and the caller must provide oral verification satisfactory to the veteran’s service representative that the caller is the surviving spouse.

If there is any question as to the validity of the surviving spouse status, appropriate development should be undertaken.

So what I am thinking happened is since SHE didn't fill out the VA Form 119 - and instead told ME to send in a statement in support of claim - the appropriate paperwork was not filed.

I don't think she really wanted to bother with it. First she told me there is no spouse award. Then she told me that there was - and I was entitled to keep it. Then she decided I should send in SOMETHING - because she said they tell spouse's the can keep the payment - and then the VA ends up taking it back (Well..yeah..IF they --as in the VA don't fill out the right paperwork), Then she told me I could send in ANY kind of claim form for it -- but eventually settled on the Statement in Support of Claim. My Statement in Support of Claim is most likely sitting in HIS file unread at the moment.

THe Manual further states:

(a) If a request for the veteran’s rate for the month of death is accompanied by VA Form 21-534, “Application for Dependency and Indemnity Compensation, Death Pension, and Accrued Benefits,” a merit determination for death benefits will be made prior to awarding benefits under 38 CFR 3.20©.

So IF you file for DIC --WHEN you request the month of death payment - they wait until the DIC is decided.

So if I get the month of death payment - and later get DIC -- they will deduct the $225 from my first DIC check.

But they can't make you file for DIC to get the month of Death Payment -- as many widows are not eligible for DIC -- but ALL are entitled to the last VA payment if they were married to, and living with, the spouse at the time of death.

If you file for DIC more than a year after the vets death - they don't deduct the month of death payment (because you basically have waived your right to the first year of DIC).

"Note: If a surviving spouse files a claim for Dependency and Indemnity Compensation (DIC) more than one year after the veteran’s death, or death pension more than 45 days after the veteran’s death and establishes entitlement, the claimant is still eligible for the veteran’s rate for the month of death under 38 CFR 3.20©.

Note 2: Payment as described under 38 CFR 3.20© should not be confused with payment of the veteran’s rate for the month of death under 38 CFR 3.20(:(. Under 38 CFR 3.20(, payment should be made to the surviving spouse for the month of death on the original death award (see 36.01(a)).

(4) If, after payment under 38 CFR 3.20©, the surviving spouse subsequently becomes entitled to death benefits from the date of the veteran’s death at a rate higher than the amount paid under 38 CFR 3.20©, an offset should be established (38 CFR 3.20(:o and 3.31). Create the offset for recovery of the veteran’s rate for the month of death prior to the original award of DIC or death pension."

The manual TELLS them what to do:

(2) Use a locally generated letter to send one of two possible messages, depending on whether TINQ

(Treasury Inquiry) shows that the veteran’s check or direct deposit has been returned, either:

(a) We will re-issue payment to you; or

(:( Since you are entitled to the veteran’s payment for the month of death, you are not required to return the check or direct deposit.

(3) In either instance, send the claims folder to Finance with the following notation on OF 41:

“Surviving spouse entitled to 1-time payment of [amount of monthly compensation or pension received by the veteran at time of death] per 38 CFR 3.209©.” If payment has been returned, request Finance to re-issue the payment to the surviving spouse (06A transaction). If payment has not been returned, notify Finance that the overpayment should be removed (08E transaction). Input of the 08E transaction must be accomplished within 45 days of the debt being established. The finance activity must notify the Debt Management Center (DMC) of the action so that they can stop the reclamation process. If the debt has been in the system for 60 days, DMC cannot stop the reclamation process when the finance activity inputs the 08E transaction.

I didn't get that letter -- most likely because they didn't follow the procedures and my Statement in Support of Claim is probably sitting around somewhere.

It still aggravates me that they did not follow the procedures -- and the money was snatched in a DIFFERENT bank account -- without notice to me from anyone.

I know. I know. I need to get the DIC claim in. I have it all done except for the Pension part - and I won't even be eligible for Pension - but I know that want that too - since THEY want to decide if I am eligible - and actually they are SUPPOSED to decide that.

Getting it done and sent has been on my to do list lots of times -- but it never makes the top priority part of my to do list. So by the time I get done with all the "what HAS to be done today" things -- it gets shifted to the next days to do list.

I keep thinking --when I get this done - or get that done - I will get more time to tie up all this other stuff. But other things rise to the forefront.

I am working through the pile of stuff on my dining room table now - and trying to get them ALL done in whatever order they are in my stack..lol

Free