Lottery

[Moe]

I will be stoned for what I am about to say but I have never won a popularity contest.

It leaves a bad taste in my mouth when people act like they have won the lottery when granted a disability award. This is evident at all vet forums not just here. I know it is a long and torturous process from personal experience and everyone should feel relief and joy at finally getting the "Envelope." But when folks say "now I can go buy this and that toy" it doesn't sound right. Almost like they beat the system out of something...

I am rated 70% and feel like it is simply compensation for the loss of physical ability to perform meaningful employment. It defrays the cost of having things done that I can no longer do myself. I will not seek IU because in my case 70% is adequate compensation. This not meant to suggest that others do or feel the same, I encourage everyone that feels he/she deserves IU to pursue it. I will even assist if I can.

Guess being retired military gives me a different slant.

Also, I am not painting with a broad brush. Not all, not even most fit the description I have drawn. But when I see it I get a bad feeling..

This is just MHO and I probably will regret saying it, but had to get it off my chest..

[Guest HolliGreen]

Re: the post by "Moe" on 7 Nov 06 @ 0741...the conciliatory words ring rather hollow; being a born skeptic, I wonder if the purpose of the initial inflamatory (IMO) post was designed to elicit the "emotional" (Moe's words) reponses by veterans. Moe, one of your paragraphs is particularly interesting, the fourth paragraph where you state, "...it's the ones that don't need it...". Again with the judgement, eh? Just who are you? A ringer for the VA? How do you propose to know who needs what and who does not? That is not your judgement to make. Oh, thank you for your service to our country. Have a great day. H.G.

[Guest rickb54]

I agree with Holigreen, at second glance your words appear to have wanted to incite the members of the board. Simply by stating in yur first sentenance that you would be stoned you knew the words were going to incite a riot. And when I talked about stoning you as you suggested, I stated stoning was too good for you. No one actually suggested you be stoned, and to say so is false. Moe you can't have it both ways. In your conciliatory words all you do is echo the words the members have tossed at you. I can appreciate it when someone admits they mis-spoke, but only if that person appears to be genuine. Your final thought was right on target, you should just leave well enought alone.

[timetowinarace]

I don't fault Moe for his view of this subject. It happens to be the view many take. And I don't think there were bad intentions in his posts.

I do disagree though.

I served with a fairly wealthy man. An enlisted man. Born into money. His grandfather had served and beleived americans should serve their country. He did not recieve any injury while serving in the time that I knew him.

If he had been injured, I see no reason to deny compensation and bennifts to a man that voluntarily served his country when he had no other reason to do so except to do his part just because he doesn't "need" it. He deserves the appreciation of the american people as much as the man struggling to have a roof over his head. What else can the people offer any broken soldier? A thank you and a pat on the back?

My view is that the pay scale for a soldier is very low to begin with. How does the man or woman the risks everything (life, limb, health, happiness, parentless children and much more) get paid much, much less than the Senator, Congressman, or other political appointee that risks nothing but their jobs? We are the ones that gave them the opportunity. We are the ones that ensure that they can have and play with their toys. Should there be limits to restrict us from having more than our "needs" met? If so, maybe they don't NEED our protection.

Like I said in my first post. There are different ways to look at it.

Time

[NJ_Devil_Dog]

I have a C&P exam this comin monday, I have no problems going in there a requesting an increase for my SC PTSD! I don't think about the possibility of 'winning the lottery' given a successful outcome! I think about the bills I'll be able to pay back, the utilities I'll be able to have restored because of the extra money I might receive.

I'm in the process of CUEing a denial from 1995 for SC PTSD, I think about the time after the denial, when I went to the VA for treatment, how a nurse asked me if I had ever filed a claim with the VA, and when I told her I had been denied she immediately responded, "Yeah, The VA always denies PTSD claims the first time around!"

I think about how gratifying it will be to have the VA for once bend over and take it ...... (you know what I mean!) I think about how different my life now would be if I had been receiving any compensation since the mid 90s! How I wouldn't have a miserable credit rating right now. How I might've been able to build some equity by having bought a house. How after a decade of going it alone, I would've had the money to pay for my own education.

I think about how my PTSD has sabotaged any meaningful relationship I've been in. How the guys I served with have families, homes, careers, etc. While I still have difficulty explaining to prospective employers why my work history averages out to about a job every 8 months! Or having to explain why I was fired from several jobs because I had assaulted coworkers.

Would my wanting to buy a new vehicle (at an insulting interest rate!) not be justified because my current automobile has 200,000+ miles on it?

Sure, if I ever received the retro I deserved for my service connected disability, there would probably be some impulsive purchases I would make, having just received a great amount of "life changing money", but who in the hell are you to go around telling others how to spend or justify what they purchase with money they have EARNED!

[free_spirit_etc]

I was reading something interesting about the VA being "paternalistic." ahem...

But it compared paternalistic and maternalistic approaches.

It said males went more for the paternalistic approach -- providing the veteran with $$$$ to save or spend as they chose. Women tended to go for a more maternalistic approach -- wanting to build more veteran's homes, provide them with services, etc. to "take care of them" instead of giving them descetionary $$ to spend taking care of themselves.

Interesting to think about.

Free

My opinion is that any vet, regardless of age or financial circumstances, who survives the process involved in receiving disability compensation deserves it. The manner in which the veteran spends the money is nobody's business.

Just my opinion.

[sixthscents]

Well Moe, I can certainly see your point, even though I disagree with it. There are several factors here. First most people filing for 100% VA comp are also, or have already filed for Social Security - disability. When that process, which normally takes about a year to 16 months is over, they receive a back-pay lump sum payment. The same is with the VA comp. To a certain extent it is like Christmas to some of these people. I have watched, and am watching veterans who live in absolute poverty trying to work their way through the system. When they finally do, and their claims are approved, its like a miracle. All of a sudden there is money for a home, land, and yes ...toys. We all need toys, be they a boat, or a rifle or whatever... just because someone is disabled does not mean they stop living.

I deal with claims every day, for normally 4-5 hours a day, and while several are VERY well founded, I see a certain portion that while they may really be service connected, but are tenuous at best. These claims have very little chance of making it thru the VA as the RO's are going to see the gaping holes that I do. Generally when I do my advocacy, (I use spell check there) I tell someone what my opinion is after hearing their background. Now that normally over the phone, and is based upon the information I am given. Sometimes when we request the records, something entirely different shows up. So, you can never be sure, but by now I have a "feel" for a claim from the start... maybe thats a bad thing, but I still go thru the steps trying to get the records etc. because you can never be sure.

I guess what I am trying to say here is that a certain portion of claims will always be people who really have no way to service connect their injuries or illnesses, or out and out fraud. This happens within social security, and workmans comp as well. It is NOT special to the VA, but really just a matter of people who are always trying to get something for nothing.

I dont see how someone buying toys either proves or disproves this notion. Financial situations differ, and some veterans that I am working with are able to lead very financially productive lives, but still have lost limbs, etc. during war and have simply never filed a claim. For instance, I have a veteran who makes $38 an hour as a bulldozer operator, yet lost half a foot in Vietnam. He had never filed for compensation... never. Now its clear he didnt really need the money, but hes getting older, and hes seeing that he wont be able to work forever, so he suddenly started listening to me when I talked about his filing for comp. At this point he is rated 40%, seeing a psych and is doing much much better in his personal relationships. Diagnosed with PTSD (after 30 years), and finally getting treatment his problems with his connection with the community and his family have vastly improved. Honestly his claim will eventually end up at 100%. Yeah, I know its bold to say but the evidence is there to support it, and thru the NODs we will eventually get it for him. Yet, at this point he doesnt really NEED the money. Yet that does not mean that he doesnt deserve it or has earned it either. He is entitled to the same compensation that any other veteran with his injuries and illnesses is entitled too. A frugal man, he is just socking away the money right now, and I suppose he will continue to do so. Smart man, but... need does not necessarily mean deserve, and necessity does not invite entitlement.

in the end, the system has built in checks and balances. The system we all yell about is partially designed to ensure (well totally designed I suppose) that only people who truely have a just and service connected claim get compensated, at an appropriate level. If everyone qualified, why would we even need raters? So, the system in place works. Sometime, even often poorly, but it does work. A good claim takes work. Literally hundreds of hours of discussion, thought, research and typing and wording claims and responses. A veteran CAN work the system, but its really very hard to do so. The problem is that to ensure that ONLY deserving veterans get care and compensation, the process is lengthy, convoluted and at best very slow. I recently lost a veteran that I have been working with for over 2 years, and 15 different typed letters that I wrote. He died at a VA hospital and the day before he died he called me to say that the VA was going to revoke his 100% TDIU.... he died that night. So, Moe.. when you are upset about the "lottery" affect that a successful claim has, do me a personal favor and think about my friend Randy, who died thinking that he would go back to his 2 room trailer, and have nothing - again. A man who served in Vietnam, the National Guard for 10+ years, and the TN state guard (a volunteer organization wiith NO pay or compensation) for over 5 years. A man who gave of himself, with ALL the hallmarks of agent orange exposure. Yet who lived in a 2 room rented trailer and regularly went without to pay his rent. Where was his "lottery win"? He deserved it. He should have gotten it years and years ago, but his claim was so poorly handled that I had to undo most of what had been done even before we could begin. Where was his fat check? The family probably wont pursue the claim, he only had a brother left. But I tell ya, I know I will remember him, and his claim. I will ask myself if I could have done more, or differently. Because the day he died he was scared. Remember that for me Moe, because .............I know I will.

Bob Smith

Bob Smith