Do They Even Read Their Own Regs

[rdawg]

undiagnosed illness

excerpts

A qualifying chronic disability means a chronic disability

resulting from an undiagnosed illness; medically unexplained

chronic multi-symptom illnesses that are defined by a cluster

of signs or symptoms such as chronic fatigue syndrome,

fibromyalgia or irritable bowel syndrome; or any other

illness that the Secretary determines warrants a presumption

of service connection. 38 C.F.R. § 3.317.

In the present case, the evidence of record does not

establish that the veteran's gastrointestinal disability

constitutes a qualifying chronic disability under 38 C.F.R.

§ 3.317. Indeed, the veteran does not have an undiagnosed

illness of the gastrointestinal system. To the contrary, the

competent evidence, to include VA examinations in May 2004

and February 2006, show assessments of irritable bowel

syndrome. Moreover, there is no demonstration that such

irritable bowel syndrome is a symptom of a medically

unexplained chronic multi-symptom illness. Therefore, the

requirements for a grant of presumptive service connection

under 38 C.F.R. § 3.317 have not been satisfied.

in one paragraph they are saying that IBS is an undiagnosed illness subject to presumptive SC. In a subsequent paragraph they are saying that the veteran does not have an undiagnosed illness -- he has been diagnosed with IBS.

who's on first? what's on second. I don't know is on third.

[rdawg]

Objee was correct with his first post. There must be evidence that the IBS is the result of an undiagnosed illness.

Vike,

IBS has no known etiology. By its nature it is a combination of symptoms of undiagnosed illness. This was the intent of Congress. I stand by my opinion. The decision on the first post on this thread is CUE.

[Berta]

Does anyone have the actual link to that CUE decision?

or its citation or docket number?

[JohnM]

undiagnosed illness

excerpts

A qualifying chronic disability means a chronic disability

resulting from an undiagnosed illness; medically unexplained

chronic multi-symptom illnesses that are defined by a cluster

of signs or symptoms such as chronic fatigue syndrome,

fibromyalgia or irritable bowel syndrome; or any other

illness that the Secretary determines warrants a presumption

of service connection. 38 C.F.R. § 3.317.

In the present case, the evidence of record does not

establish that the veteran's gastrointestinal disability

constitutes a qualifying chronic disability under 38 C.F.R.

§ 3.317. Indeed, the veteran does not have an undiagnosed

illness of the gastrointestinal system. To the contrary, the

competent evidence, to include VA examinations in May 2004

and February 2006, show assessments of irritable bowel

syndrome. Moreover, there is no demonstration that such

irritable bowel syndrome is a symptom of a medically

unexplained chronic multi-symptom illness. Therefore, the

requirements for a grant of presumptive service connection

under 38 C.F.R. § 3.317 have not been satisfied.

in one paragraph they are saying that IBS is an undiagnosed illness subject to presumptive SC. In a subsequent paragraph they are saying that the veteran does not have an undiagnosed illness -- he has been diagnosed with IBS.

who's on first? what's on second. I don't know is on third.

When we took emmak's son to the VA Rep. I used this phrase on his behalf, she had said that this was meant for the" Men & Women in the Gulf War" and would not help for him.

[rdawg]

check it out Berta. let me know what you think.

This should be a CUE on the BVA

JohnM,

Yes, this presumption is only for those that served in the Gulf during one if the wars.

I got out right before Gulf War 1, but I played war every three weeks, full chem gear in the Florida or California heat. I have IBS that I'm trying to get Sc'd so I was researching other BVA decisions on IBS when i came across this one.

[Ricky]

Ok lets get our definition figured out here. This is what the reg says:

"medically unexplained chronic multi-symptom illnesses ----- that are defined by a cluster

of signs or symptoms -------- such as chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia or irritable bowel syndrome

Ok look at how the statement reads when you break it down and really look at it - Medically unexplained chronic multi-symptom illnesses ----- The medical definition of IBS, CFS, and Fibro according to Dorland and all other authoritive medical experts is - a medically UNEXPLAINED CHRONIC MULTI - SYMPTOM ILLNESS --- then they go on to say THAT ARE DEFINED BY A CLUSTER OF SIGNS OR SYMPTOMS-----this makes them an unexplained illness NOT A SYMPTOM.

The medical community provides that each of the above are defined by clusters of signs and or symptoms ---- THEY ARE DEFINED BY-----NO WHERE IN THE MEDICAL COMMUNITY WILL YOU FIND THAT THEY ARE SYMPTOMS....... THEY ARE UNEXPLAINED ILLNESSES THEMSELVES THAT ARE DEFINED BY CLUSTERS OF SIGNS OR SYMPTOMS.....

Now with that said their inclusion into the CFR was because GW vets were complaining of symptoms such as constipation, runny bowels, frequent bowel movements. Based upon these SYMPTOMS they were being diagnosed with the ILLNESS OF IBS. Once they received the diagnosis of IBS, the VA was saying sorry buddy, I know that you have all of these bowel problems but your doctor diagnosed you with IBS. IBS is a diagnosed illness so you do not meet the requirement of an unexplained illness cause your bowel symptoms have now been given a medical diagnosis of IBS. REMEMBER the VA rating is for UNDIAGNOSED ILLNESS not Unexplained Illness. Due to the unexplained nature of IBS, Fibro and CFS congress wanted them to be accepted under the Undiagnosed heading since they all stem from mutli-signs and or symptoms which a hugh amount of GW vets suffered from such as multiple joint pain, fatigue, bowel problems etc.....

Same goes for Fibro and CFS. Go to the doctor with the SYMPTOMS of joint pain, tiredness, muscle weakness etc.........If the doc can not find any reason for the SYMPTOMS displayed (such as a cold, infection, cancer etc.....) the he will eventually provide the diagnosis of FIBRO or CFS.

Bottom line is IBS, FIBRO and CFS are UNEXPLAINED ILLNESSES PER the American Medical Community with multi-symptoms such as runny bowels, constipation, or roving joint pain, muscle stifness/soreness, tiredness, aches etc...... If you want to win a claim such as this and you have been diagnosed with an unexplained illness such as IBS you must have an doctors statement that says it is at least as likely as not that the IBS is due to your GS service.

P.S - Vike- Yes sir you are right. Joe the rater don't really care he just does his job as he is instructed to do by his supervisor. But you can bet you a double s that the management of the RO who is owned and operated by old Sec Nic himself does. The RO management is the one with the big thumb. At performance apprisal time this big ole thumb is the one that will either sign the paperwork for ole Joe the Raters quality step increase and yearly bonus which causes a check to be spit out by the ole government finance system or squash the he double l out of him until he can't breath. So in reality he does not give a crap less about what congress or anyone else says, but when Mike the Ro manager says "you will do this Joe" you can bet ole Joe is all ears.

Edited February 4, 2007 by Ricky

[Ricky]

Rdawg - forgot to post - I ain't Berta and never will be as good as her, but I think the rating issued will stand as there is no nexus to his gulf war service my friend so as to the CUE issue my opinion is that it is dead. This vet in the ruling needs a doc that will provide that his current IBS is tied to his GW service.

His IBS type symptoms in service (ie..diarrhea) are usless to a claim for presumption under the GW laws. Each one of them was determined to be a result of head injuries, acute gastroenteritis, viral infections etc...... therefore, they are not due to an undiagnosed Illness nor were they chronic as they resolved with the resolution of each of the above diagnosed illnesses so his attempts to use those in service symptoms in support of his current post service diagnosis of IBS are worthless.

Once again, since he now has a diagnosis of IBS he will have to have a doc say that the IBS is associated with his gulf war service in order to succeed. Basically what the doc is now saying yep he does have symptoms of constipation, diarrhea, stomach distress etc.... but I can not find and medical cause, therefore, my diagnosis is IBS. This is right down the GW presumptive rules but you gotta have a doc say the IBS is at least as likely as not due to the GW service. I know I keep beating a dead horse here, but trust me on this one.

JMHO

Edited February 4, 2007 by Ricky