broncovet

I disagree that "Pay VETS now" would "bust the bank". I think this is the lie that the VA wants us to believe. No company or government has succeeded long term by "saving money" by constantly delaying and denying payments that they owe. They soon get a poor reputation, and people refuse to deal with them and are usually forced into bankruptcy by its angry creditors/employees. How the VA has gotten away with this for so long is a mystery, but the US government can not continue to do business using the delay and deny till we die method. If other government agencies adopt this "deny and delay" concept to "save money" a complete erosion of trust will occur, as is already occuring with Veterans. US greenbacks will no longer be accepted..because they just cant trust the US government. The US government has betrayed the trust of the Veteran..to "save" dollars only in the short term, at the expense of long term costs in not only money. We are in desperate need of leadership who will stop this cancer in the VA and prevent it from also spreading into other government agencies. Making responsible decisions and paying debts that you owe will not "break the bank" but instead ultimately lead to physical responsibility.

The more I think about it, the more "Pay Vets Now" would not only stimulate the economy, but would save the government money in the long run. As was pointed out, most of this money paid out would be already due to Veterans, and the only cost would be the unrecoverable fraud payments. The VA already has unrecoverable fraud payments, and I think this amount would actually be reduced by "Pay Vets now". Reason: With the present delay and deny system, HUGE Retros are paid, sometimes for ten years or more of benefits. Pay Vets Now, would quickly reduce these huge retros, because the VA would pay them now, and not ten years from now. These huge retros are a magnet for both employee and Veteran fraud. It just would no longer be worth it for con artists to file fraudulent claims, collect a month or two of benefits, and then have to put up with the hassel of the government trying to recover and prosecute. However, with the present system, a half million or more of retro is quite an incentive for thieves making it worth their while to fake multiple documents. Some years ago a company near my home town tried to utilize the present "VA delay and deny" method with its employees. Multiple employees were hired, then on pay day, they had excuse after excuse always saying that their check would arrive next week. The company thought it could save money this way. They didnt. It cost them money, big time..lawsuits, litigation, bad reputation, employees quitting, etc. It did not work. No successfull company has ever used the Delay and Deny method the VA gets away with, and they wont..at least not for long, either. Government cant get away with it long term either. The VA is taking more heat each day, and is under constant pressure from multiple sources to change the delay and deny tactics. The VA has cleverly resisted this pressure so far, but will ultimately succumb. "Truthful lips are established forever, but a lie lasts only a moment" the Proverb says. Hillary Clinton says the New York VARO is corrupt, and history tells us that if it occurs in ONE RO, it is almost never an "isolated event". We have found time after time, that if something bad occurs in ONE regional office, such as shredding, it probably occurs in other RO's as well.

It is beyond my comprehension as to why Veterans would advocate for the present broken system of delay and deny until we die. The only thing that would make any sense is that Veterans who have already been awarded benefits want others to have to also go through the painful process they went through, or possibly a fear that if too many benefits are awarded to too many Veterans their benefits may somehow be taken away. Politicians need to realize that the costs of war is more than just a few guns and planes, that the government has a duty to compensate its soldiers for their injuries. We still dont know how much the Vietnam War cost taxpayers, because Vietnam Veterans are still suffering from injuries during that war. Abraham Lincoln established that it is the governments responsibility to compensate that Veteran. The cost of war should not be borne exclusively by the Veteran, but by its citizens. Whenever our government delays compensation to the Veteran, or denies just compensation, it is asking its Veterans to bear this burden, in addition to the burdens already borne by the Veteran, often giving up life and limb for the causes of the government. The Veteran truly does deserve "the benefit of the doubt" but does not get it in our present system. The "Pay Veterans Now" would go a long way to make up this longstanding injustice to our country's heroes. It was pointed out that it would not even cost the government that much money. For the majority of Veterans who deserve their compensation, they simply get it now rather than later. The only cost to the government would be the money paid to con artists which could not be recovered. However, that cost would somewhat be offset by the labor savings. How many employees does it take to answer the Veterans questions, over and over, when am I going to get paid? Further, if you are assuming there is no fraud within the VA now, or that fraud would naturally increase if "pay Vets now" was implemented, this may well be an incorrect assumption. Veteran payments either to Veteran fraud or to employee fraud are already rampant, and the IRS method may actually reduce fraud, rather than increase it as the "status quo" advocates claim.

Can someone explain how/why the IRS "shotgun" method works for the IRS but would not work for the VA? Is there some particular reason that A Veterans disability claim should not be trusted and accepted, but his tax return should be immediately trusted, accepted and a check sent immediately? Please tell me how a civilian filing his/her taxes is somehow more trustworthy than a Veteran filing a disability claim?

As far as government debt goes, do you really recommend that Veterans solve the governments debt problem by waiting for years for the money they deserve now? The government debt problem can not be solved on the backs of Veterans.

The government is already talking about another economic stimulus plan, because the last one was not enough. Probably the bankers that collected most of it in bonuses, didnt need it, so they did not spend it. So what is the alternative: give another round of executive bonuses for corporate executives of failed companies, or give the same amount to Veterans? People have already pointed out that this money ALREADY BELONGS TO THE VETERANS. The past system expected Veterans to loan the VA, interest free, on their unpaid claims. It isnt going to cost more money, or not significatly more money, as this money already belongs to Veterans who applied for benefits. If a claim slips through to a Veteran ineligible for benefits, then the VA can recover that money similar to the way the IRS recovers its money owed to them. The IRS has used this method for years, and they dont appear to be going broke anytime soon.

Filner endorses the proposal, but I am waiting to see how our congress does at implementing this good idea. I just might have a tendency to vote people for re election if they can "get er done". This would put stimilus money in the hands of those who deserve it the most, and also those who probably need it the most. The story is here: http://www.vawatchdog.org/09/nf09/nfjul09/nf071609-1.htm

I agree with Carlie. There are very, very few slam dunks. 1-3 years is good, 3-5 years is normal, mine took 7 years, I know at least one Veteran who has been waiting since 1973. Isnt it disgusting that Veterans wait years for the VA to process their claims? The VA moves so slow that you have to drive stakes in the ground to tell if they are moving at all..kind of like a glacier that moves about one inch per year.

TSSnave They already have "capped" benefits at 48 months, in a round about way. You see, most of these programs are not good for graduate degrees..only for a Bachelors. And, with most of them you only get paid for credit hours towards your degree. Since a Bachelors is a 4 year degree, that essentially means you are capped at 48 months.

Its business as usual at the VA. First they will deny this ever happened. Then, when caught, they will say it is an isolated incident and that it doesnt happen at other RO's. Finally, when it is discovered the same kind of stuff happens at most RO's, the VA will say that they have fixed the problem with some changes. Six months later, the same thing happens again.

Berta.. I hope you dont get caught in the "new law" that I mentioned in my previous post," This is a change in law that became effective December 10, 2004. If you were previously eligible based on your spouse’s death on active duty, and your 10-year eligibility period expired before December 10, 2004, you now have a new eligibility period of 20 years from the date of your spouse’s death. However, in those cases we can pay only for training that began on or after December 10, 2004. The other issue is I am trying to find out if there is a "retro cap" of two years, or that was just in my particular case because my effective date of P and T was two years ago. I havent been able to find out for sure of this yet, but I know my son was not able to get Ch. 35 Retro beyond two years.

Lenora Rock was right about the Tiger Teams goals. Now, you need to hear "the rest of the story". The VA was too cheap to recruit experienced rating specialists from all over the country, and instead promoted the best from Cleveland, leaving Cleveland RO with inexperienced, rookie rating specialists. The results have been predictable. Cleveland compensates their Veterans an average of the lowest in the nation. Cleveland rating specialists are one of the "top 5" in shredding claims, according to the VAOIG reports. Clevelands appeal rate is one of the highest in the nation, according to the "monday morning" reports. And the Cleveland RO manager..what happened to her? Why she was promoted to the Central Office, of course, according to vawatchdog.org. The Tiger team was a good idea, it was just implemented incorrectly, leaving Ohio Veterans high and dry, with super long waits, bad decisions, and then a very long appeal process, and many, many claims not addressed but shredded instead. It is another example of the VA taking inappropriate action by prioritizing one Veterans group over another. In this case, it was Ohio Veterans who were the loosers. Another example of this is priortizing the "new" Veterans, claims, and let the Vietnam era Vets claims do nothing. I think this is all part of the VA's plan..to divide and conquer. By turning one Veterans group against another, Veterans dont unite in fighting the VA and the VA wins. AARP, on the other hand, is a united, well organized and well funded group. They are the most powerfull lobby organization on the planet. If a politician "dares" to even discuss cutting social security benefits, that will mark the end of that politicains career. Right now, the political climate is that we care about Iraq/OIF Veterans, but other Korea/Vietnam Vets are left out in the cold. We Veterans really need to unite, there are about 26 million of us, and we, too, should be a powerfully lobby organization, but the VA has largely succeeded in dividing us into much weaker individual groups based on which war we were in.

Berta Also try the Educational Ch. 35 FAQ's located here: https://www.gibill2.va.gov/vba/vba.cfg/php....0&p_cats=10

Berta Try reading this instead: http://www.gibill.va.gov/pamphlets/CH35/CH35_Pamphlet.pdf A pertinet part, I beleive is (quoting the VA pamphlet) If you’re an eligible surviving spouse and the veteran died of a service-connected disability, you may choose the beginning date for your 10-year period of eligibility. That date must be between the date of death and the date we determine that the death was due to service-connected disability. Veteran Had Permanent and Total Service-Connected Disability at Time of Death If you’re an eligible surviving spouse and the veteran had a permanent and total service-connected disability at time of death, the beginning date of your 10-year period is the date of death. Veteran Died on Active Duty If you’re an eligible surviving spouse and your spouse died on active duty, your eligibility period is 20 years from the date of death.* *Note: This is a change in law that became effective December 10, 2004. If you were previously eligible based on your spouse’s death on active duty, and your 10-year eligibility period expired before December 10, 2004, you now have a new eligibility period of 20 years from the date of your spouse’s death. However, in those cases we can pay only for training that began on or after December 10, 2004. Example: A veteran died on active duty on July 1, 1985. Until the change in the law, the surviving spouse’s 10-year eligibility period would have ended on July 1, 1995. Now, the surviving spouse has a new eligibility period ending on July 1, 2005. However, VA can pay only for training that began on or after December 10, 2004. I interpret the "Note" to mean you have 20 years, not ten. However, when my son got Ch. 35, I seem to recall that he could only get "retro" for 2 years, but I am not sure if that is just his situation or everyones. When my son got his Ch. 35 letter of eligibility, there is an election date he has to pick. That is, he gets a maximum of 48 months (I think this number is correct) of benefits, but he gets to pick what date he wants to start on, as long as it is AFTER my effective date of P and T. I went with him to his school Veterans benefit counselor, and they seemed very knowledgeable. The VA has lots of rules they did not used to have as far as payments on Ch. 35. For example, classes that you take which do not work toward your degree wont count towards full time. Also he gets benefits only while he is actively attending classes, not during the summer or breaks, except in special circumstances. Hope this helps.

I agree with Rental and Berta. Even tho there is no doubt the VA will place land mines in between you and your benefit award, you can disarm the land mines with knowledge of where they are. Do your homework..study your medical records, as well as CFR 38 and the schedule for rating disabilities, and you may well even be able to walk through the VA mine field of boobie traps and arrive at your destination (award of benefits). The really insane part of this is that the VA, who is supposed to be here to serve Veterans, instead lays traps so that they can deny your benefits. This trap is one of many. You are on the right track. Many hadit members have already navigated this mine field, and many of us got caught in one of the many boobie traps that the VA lays for its Veterans. Keep seeking advice here on the board. Knowledge is power, and that knowledge is usually available here.

This seems to be just one more "trap" to snare unsuspecting Veterans. As Rentalguy pointed out, if you are too vague, the VA uses that to deny benefits. However, if you are too specific, and the C and P Doc relates it to a related diagnosis, but not one specifically applied for, the Veteran looses again. The VA is way, way, outside of regulations when they do this, but as long as there is no penalty for the VA voilating regulations, they will continue to do so at Veterans expense. A really good example of why the VA is not supposed to trap Veterans this way is contained in Roberson vs Principii which states it this way: "The Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims held that even if the VA had a duty to develop all possible claims that are reasonably raised from a liberal reading of the record, Roberson was required under section 3.155(a) to specifically request entitlement to the benefit sought – in this case TDIU. The Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims determined that because Roberson did not make a specific request for TDIU, the VA was not obligated to adjudicate such a claim. Roberson alleges that Norris v. West, 12 Vet. App. 413 (1999), is applicable and holds that the VA’s requirement that TDIU be specifically requested “loses sight of the Congressional mandate that the VA is to ‘fully and sympathetically develop the veteran’s claim to its optimum before decision on its merits.’” Norris, 12 Vet. App. at 420 (citing Hodge v. West, 155 F.3d 1356, 1362-63 (Fed. Cir. 1998)). "

Sharp.. I think its worth a try. What have you got to loose? Read Roberson vs Principii at http://www.ll.georgetown.edu/federal/judic...ns/00-7009.html to see if it applies to you.

I, too, am "from Missouri", and have been told enough lies by the VA so that I beleive just about anyone before the VA. When in doubt, I will always "favor the Veteran". For example, VA watchdog.org often gives and entirely different viewpoint than on the VA website. Who do I beleive? I beleive VA watchdog every single time, mostly because VA has already been caught in so, so many lies. And I believe "Veterans for Change" before I beleive the crapola that the VA dishes out. The Department of Veterans affairs fully deserves their reputation that they have "shredded the Veterans trust". Until/unless the DVA starts telling the truth on a consistent basis, myself and others will believe what others say about the VA..even if what the VA says is accurate. The DVA has made this bed, now they are going to need to "lie" in it. Time after time the VA has tried to minimize or deny their problems, and time after time, it turns out to be much worse than what they said.

Cowgirl Yes, I have the doctors notes. Fortunately, I have listened to people on hadit that suggested I get a copy of my C file, including the medical reports, and reviewed this information. I am really glad the doctor wrote this down, in fact, multiple doctors, on multiple exams have stated similar things over a period of 7 years. I really dont see how the VA can refute this medical evidence. Even a single C and P exam does not refute medical history particulary when multiple doctors gave consistent reports over many years. The courts have ruled that a single medical examination by a C and P examiner, who has only seen a Veteran for one hour, does not trump a Veterans medical history with a doctor who has seen the Veteran for many years.

Test In typical VA style, the VA often understates its problems. This article pointed out that this number includes Veterans waiting on benefits at the BVA, CAVC or other appeals. By not including appeals in the numbers, the VA can make the numbers seem less bad than what they really are. The appeals backlog is growing substantially as well, as some suggested, the VA is just denying claims willy nilly, to make the backlog seem better, then letting the appeals sort it out. It is an outrageous method to reduce the backlog. My hats off to this author for including claims in appeal process, and not just VARO claims because the bottom line is the Veteran is waiting on his benefits regardless of whether his claim is at the RO, BVA, CAVC or Federal court. The Veteran is still waiting on the VA to process his claim.

At least two plausable solutions have been proposed to end/reduce the backlog, but the VA will have no part of them, as it will upset the "business as usual" attitude: 1. Automatic approval of Veterans claims after a specified period of time, say 6-18 months. The VA objects to this plan on the grounds that some VEterans claims are complex and take longer than that, due to inability to locate records, etc. Instead, the VA has "automatic denial" of benefits. How it works is if the Veteran applies for multiple benefits, the VA can address just one issue and the rest are "secretly denied", "automatically denied", or "deemed denied", depending on which term you like to use. The end result is that the Veteran does not get a decision on all his claims, so they are denied, and the one year clock starts ticking that the Veteran is required to appeal the Secret Denial, even tho he never received a decision, or else the automatic denial becomes final, except in the case of CUE. 2. Immediate approval of claims, similar to the WAY the IRS pays tax refunds. With the IRS method, the taxpayer is assumed to be honest, and has used good faith in filing his/her tax return. If an audit shows the taxpayer committed fraud, he will have to pay everything back, with interest, and could be prosecuted for fraud. It would appear that someone who served his country well with an honorable discharge could/should be trusted just as well as a taxpayer who may not have served his country. Again the VA opposes this method and prefers the same broken system that has been used for years. Altho both of the above methods would cost money in the short term, the long term benefits would likely be great and overshadow the short term burden to taxpayers. For example, Veterans waiting on benefits place an undue burden on already strained government programs to help the needy. Somebody has to pick up the pieces left behind and care for family members who have lost their Veteran due to suicide, or found themselves homeless with the Veteran. Some Veterans resort to drugs/alcohol as a sort of pain medication for their inability to provide for their family while awaiting benefits. Others, out of desperation, may have to resort to crime to support their family. Far too many give up and either become homeless or commit suicide. The cost of "status quo" for the VA is just too great to continue to do nothing about the VA backlog/claim delays.

This disturbing trend (steadily worsening Veterans claim backlog) has actually accelerated since Shinesiki has became Secretary, with no signs of relief in sight for Veterans. As far as I can see, the Secretary's plan is to require the Vietnam Era Veterans to wait even longer, and give priority to the "new" Veterans at the expense of the older Veterans. This plan has backfired and needs to be scrapped, before all 26 million or so Veterans are all on the VA's already very, very long "waiting list for benefits". We need to remember that these are not "claims", they are people...and these people need help now, not in 3-4 years when we see if the massive new IT funding will solve the problem. During the next 3-4 years or so that it will take to implement the computer system to convert to electronic filing of benefits, from the present paper system, tens of thousands more Veterans will become homeless and thousands more will commit suicide. It has been reported, already, that more Veterans are currently dieing to their own hand than to the enemy in war. WE should be heartbroken if just one Veteran takes his own life because the DVA insists on doing its claim processing in the tired old method of delay after delay which forces the Veteran into poverty and desperation.

Halos2 The statement Ruby made was for a NOD. It is to CYA just in case the Regional Office "forgot" to mention one or more of your issues. You see, unfortunately, if you apply for 3 benefits and the RO decision denies one of these, the others are "deemed denied", that is, secretly denied. It is one of the many boobie traps that Veterans must face to try to get their claim approved. Ruby merely suggested including this statement with your NOD because if you do not appeal a decision, it becomes final within a year, even if the VA "forgets" to address all your issues. This is a huge ripoff to Veterans..the VA is not even required to process your claim, they can just 'blow it off' and it will be denied automatically...that is, deemed denied. In order to "blow off" the Veterans claim, all the VA has to do is make a decision on one issue, and just not mention any of the others. The courts have ruled the other issues are "deemed denied. The courts agree this is not fair to Veterans, but indicate that congress has to fix it. Personally, I am "taking on" the Va on this very issue. The court case, Roberson vs Principii, IMHO prevents the VA from doing this, as congress has required that the Va consider all the Veterans claims before deciding the case.

The VA claims backlog has now grown, not to a million Veterans, but much worse, 1.2 million Veterans are now waiting on the VA to process their benefits. Its the longest line in history..and growing daily. At this rate, there will be even more Veteran homelessness and Veteran suicide: Veterans are expected to be patient while our bill collectors are not. http://www.veteranstoday.com/modules.php?n...r=0&thold=0 Even worse, older claims, that is, Veterans already waiting sometimes for years, go directly to the "back burner".

I checked one of Alex Humphries posts, the now deceased Veteran advocate lawyer who used to help Veterans by posting on this board. He recommended a law firm, so I called them. Essentially, I have been awarded 100% P and T, but at an effective date 5 years later than when I applied. I dont want to mess up my 100% P and T, but on the other hand, strongly feel that my effective date should be in 2002 because I applied for a benefit increase by an informal claim at the Docs office. Alex Humphrey pointed out, in his post, that if a Veteran goes to his doc complaining of unemployment issues, that constitutes an informal claim for TDIU. Roberson vs Principi states it this way: when the VA conducts a medical examination . . . if the results indicate an increase in severity in the disability, VA must then evaluate the circumstances as a claim for an increased rating. Further, the Court holds that when an RO is considering a rating increase claim from a claimant who’s schedular rating meets the minimum criteria of section 4.16(a) and there is evidence of current service-connected unemployability . . . evaluation of that rating increase must also include an evaluation of a reasonably raised claim for a TDIU rating. In that situation, where those two criteria are satisfied, a well-grounded TDIU claim is included in every rating-increase claim, and VA would be required to adjudicate that well-grounded TDIU claim. Source: http://www.ll.georgetown.edu/federal/judic...ns/00-7009.html I have already filed a NOD to the March, 09 RO decision which awarded 100% P and T, disputing the effective date. If the VA gets away with delaying the Veterans claim for 5 years, then finally awarding benefits with an effective date 5 years later, they have succeeded in swindling the Veteran out of 5 years of benefits. I really do not think it is fair to other Veterans for me to just sit by and watch the VA do this. My guess is that they have done this to other Veterans. Veterans need to know that informal claims are a perfectly legitimate way of applying for benefits. Altho I dont recommend not following this up with a formal claim for benefits, informal claims should trigger the VA to assist the Veteran applying for benefits, under this important court case.