RSG

February 25, 2008

hey, It's me again.

With reference to stressor letters, I know that you need to show evidence of stressor for PTSD. am I required to get the

same eveidence for depression?

Ron

February 25, 2008

I went To The VARO and filled out their form. for getting those documents

February 25, 2008

I am sorry for not understanding your comment. I assume that this is what they are basing their findings on as well as something in the C&P exam of 2005.igate the C&p Further. I also requested my full "c"file last friday. do you know how long that usually takes for those documents to arrive. Please pardon me for not understanding sometimes, the cognitive disoder i also suffer from makes it tough for me sometimes.

Ron

I am sorry was not to clear. I meant that your seeing a Doc once when you were 5 or 6 does not mean it is preexisting by any medical standard. Its really pretty thin to deny on that basis and even if it was preexisting you can sho aggravation in Service cause when they accepted you to serve that is proof that nothing was wrong.

February 25, 2008

Berta,

i contacted Dr. Barson this AM. So we will see what he needs to see. I am not done with this I am sure,

I only have 60 days to get this done and send back. I hope the Dr. doesn't mess around with this.

How long does this usually take for an IMO. I hope this thing doesn't cost. Being on SSD doesn't leave

very much money for this kind of stuff. Thanks for your help.

February 25, 2008

Hey Pete,

Not sure I understand this comment"Going to see a Doc when you were 5 or 6 does not cut it for the VA".

Can you explain further. Does this mean that could be screwing up my claim.

Ron

February 24, 2008

I'm sorry got so preoccupied with this, i forgt to say thank you for your help.

I'm also sorry that I can not tell you the cause on this forum. It is still way to bothersome for me to discuss in an open environment.

Thanks

Ron

Ron,
Make sure that you have the VHA handbook 1605.1 and most important the VHA Directive 2004-014 which talks about C&P Exam amendments in hand when you go back to the VA. I got them off the VA website. You can also check with the VA Hospital's library. How I did the request for amendment is for each item that was incorrect I listed in " " what the examiner said and then I listed what was wrong and how it should have read. Remember you are requesting an amendment which they could disapprove, however if you go in there with the Directive and with everything in order to the point listed in order then you will have a better chance. To give you an example: the examiner stated that the veteran never consumed any food or never drink anything while on board the ship during ship overhaul for removal of asbestos. Drinking or eating on board the ship was never mentions during the C&P exam. During the amendment this item was deleted because unless the examiner was also on the ship with the Veteran he could not know what was consumed.

February 24, 2008

hi Berta,

I do know what I think caused the depression,That is also documented in US NAVY hospital recoreds. I am hesitant to relay it through the board here. It really makes me feel weird to discuss it here. There were a number of things. i might explain it to you personally, but it is extremely embarassing.

I don't know where to find the docket number, or if there is one at the AMC. I am sorry I can't explain it fully here but it

really bothers me.

Ron

"Hello Berta,

Yes, I have the documentation showing when the depression hit, when the Navy treated me, what they treated me with,
where they treated me, and when they discharged me. Is that a nexus? I think it is, but i've been wrong before.

Ron"

No -the nexus is the CAUSE of the depression-the "why " is missing-

Since your claim has been in the system for so long by now-I can only assume that maybe the VA has questioned the cause of your depression-

the inservice event, reason, etiology, whatever- that caused the depression-

with an inservice documented event that caused it- they would have to give up on the pre-service BS they stated.

I cannot understand any other reason they would have denied your claim-

can you give us the BVA docket number- the BVA decision and remand is the controlling factor here-
whatever the BVA said they needed -that is what the VA must have to award your claim.

Maybe it is not the nexus factor at all-

It depends on what the BVA stated-
if they did not remand for more proof of the nexus-
the cause of your depression-
then I can't see why you were denied at all.

Schizophrenia and manic bi polar is far different from
claims of anxiety, PTSD , or depression.

I know many vets with above disabilities-

an inservice event (nexus) of schizophrenia or bi polar episodes often involves only the proper diagnosis in the SMRs.
other claims like this need proof of manifestation of the symptomology in service- whether in SMRs or personnel records-

Depression, anxiety and PTSD claims need a service nexus.

You might well have established the nexus-I just am looking for any potential reason that they are denying your claim.

This case might explain what I mean better:
http://www.va.gov/vetapp07/files4/0735850.txt

The veteran had an inservice reaction and treatment for depression due to the death of his mother while he was on active duty.

By time of discharge this was mentioned on his discharge certificate as depression but as resolved.

Many many service personnel lose parents or family members while on active duty.

His depression claim was denied but then he revealed stressors from Korea- when he need further treatment- as a veteran for depression.

"A December 2003 VA mental disorders examination report shows
that the veteran reported that his first bout with depression
was in 1984 when an aircraft he was working on crashed and
five people were killed" BVA 2007

The veteran had fully established the inservice cause of his depression.

February 24, 2008

I went to th VA hosp. Friday. i got my C&P records, I read them again for about 6th time. I went to tha patient advocate

and got exactly the same story. I am just absolutely blown away. That is a very valuable piece of information. i will go back to the VA.!!!!!!!!!!!! I will definitely consider my options now.

Thank you very much.

Ron

February 24, 2008

They can not produce that piece of paper! it was totally unavailable, i was 5 years old and nobody even remembers who the dr. was.

They retro pay is almost a moot point now, i gettin close to not being here much longer. I am a type 1 diabetic with multiple issues. I will admit, retro would be nice, but I am almost inclined to shove it back in their face and somehow force the issue

of how this system sucks, and force a fix. I am so angry now about the kids coming back from Iraq and being all screwed up,

and ending up in a position such as my own. I do not want to see any of these new vets have to deal with a 38 yr. lack of responsibility, on the Va's part. I am really disturbed by their blatant disrespect of people who served this country. Cause without all the vets doing their duty, this country would not be as free as it is. Sorry, I'm ranting I guess.

I do have that, and they have told me I may write a letter of disagreement in my own writing???????Is that strange, or what.

What I think is they just want me to make some kind of error in my letter that they can jump on and give me more grief.

i would be happy to talk to the Dr. And see if it would be worthwhile to utilize his services. I appreciate your advice.

Hope I didn't sound to goofy.

Ron

Ron,

The doctors have to produce the little sheet of paper from your psychologist. They just can't go flying off with what you may or may not remember in your childhood.

Again this is just my opinion, being retro pay is involved and I don't know how much, I would contact a doctor for an IMO.

I would pay the $350.00 to shut the mess up. If I am correct, you have the waiver in your hands to submit new evidence. I would surely take this time to do it.

You have spend some time at the BVA and now at the AMC and next is the courts, You cannnot turn in an IME or IMO after the BVA makes their final decision.

I saw a Forsensic Psychiatrist in D. C to get me out of this Personality Mess dropped off on me.

I had " Both New and Material Evidence of my " Psychiatric Records", where they lay silent for 40 years, so my IME did cost me almost 4000.00, but he had to cover 43 years of my life.

Your case is not the mess that mine was. I would contact Dr. Dennis Barson.

If you need his contact info. He lives in the state of Virginia and I can get this to you.

Always,
Betty

February 24, 2008

Hello Berta,

Yes, I have the documentation showing when the depression hit, when the Navy treated me, what they treated me with,

where they treated me, and when they discharged me. Is that a nexus? I think it is, but i've been wrong before.

Ron

RSG is your nexus in question at all with the VA?

Do you have a proven nexus-link, cause, etiology, reason, event for your claimed disability?

Every single claim unless under presumptive regulations needs a proven nexus.
A strong proven inservice nexus makes any prior to service
incident really moot points.

No IMO can really help to prove a nexus-it can support a nexus as more then likely - unless the IMO doctor is giving an eye witness account as a buddy statement and served with you.

I guess what I mean basically is why were you hospitalized and then diagnosed with depression? that is the nexus.

February 23, 2008

josephine,

I am sure about the IMO's.IME's. I have so much documention from doc's now that it's A "preponderance of evidence" to the

against The VA. They all state in the letters that they feel it is Service connected.

The dr's probaly said to my folks he's just a normal kid. I didn't want to do the homework that's all I can tell ya. The visit in not even on record, except for that I said something about it when I was under the doc's care at Oak Knoll.

Yes, I was In perfect mental and physical condition, Got that documentation to. I was in 2 years, when all this stuff happened

I appreciate the help. and yes they did keep me, until this happened.

Ron

RSG,

This is only my opinion. I am just a vet fighting the system just like you.

Appears we have been at it about the same length of time.

Getting IMO's and IME's at our ages aren't the easiest things to accomplish.

This is why I say this. The first thing to me a doctor is going to say, How do you expect me to know if what happened to you when you were 5 years of age is the same thing you are suffering from today.

Is there is only one office visit in your medical record age of 5 seeing a psychologist?

Did the good doc say why you chose not to do your homework?

Was it because you couldn't do the homework or just didn't have a desire to do it.

When you enlisted some xx years later, did they find you to be in sound condition and how long were you in service?

They took you and they kept you. Didn't they?

Just trying to help you,

Betty

February 23, 2008

I might be inclined to do that if i hadn't been working on this for 38 years. And, it's were it's at in the system. Should I just get an attorney now, and let them handle it? And would the Dr. need to be a shrink to provide the IMO.

You don't have to use that one. You can call around your local area and inquire as to the local docs' pricing. I still say I would file to re-open, instead of an appeal. You would lose the retro, but you would have a much faster resolution.

Anytime that you have anything in your past, mental or physical, the VA will try to use it against you. You just have to beat them to the punch, but most vets don't know that.

February 23, 2008

Yes, I also have the SSD determination letter showing and stating that I was retired because of Major Depression and Cognitive

Disorders. How much will it cost me for this online shrink to write me an IMO. The one advertized on this forum.

Do you have a copy of the C&P and C&P addendum? I'm guessing that AXES I & II state PD. They are probably pulling this game on your, too. If you haven't, go get a complete copy of your VAMR's and search out all the MH stuff. Then go get a IMO, or two. Then file to re-open the claim with new and material evidence. I think that would be faster than appealing at your level.

February 23, 2008

I wonder if I should use your VA info in my letter of rebuttal, or can I do that.

February 23, 2008

Man, Do I ever understand This. I am sorry that you are going thru this. I have been fighting them for 38 yrs.So I totally understand this screwed up system

I am so overwhelmed with all of this dealing with the VARO and VA Hospital the negativity is shameful and embarssing for that another human being could and does behave in such a mannor i will insert what i am going to send to Board of corrections any advice would be so much appreciated .i am at a lost now.I need to take a leap of faith and i apologze ahead of time that i choose you and thank you Al Army Review Boards Agency Support Division, St Louis 9700 Page Avenue St. Louis MO. 63152-5200 RE: Board of Corrections At My request. Facts that are in Military Personnel file, C-File, Veterans Administration File. Date of injury Fort Leonard Wood MO. March 30 1977 emergency room x-ray report, full leg cast and diagnose of injury osteochondral fracture with dislocation bone fragment in Left Knee on x-ray report .The rest of my unit proceeded to AIT. I did not was held over could not travel according to Staff due to injury remained several weeks until cast was removed. The cast was removed and I was sent to AIT Fort Sam Houston Texas. April 26,1977 Combat Medic Training. Back to full duty no follow up this remained an issue and a constant problem this injury which was mentioned to peers and staff and yet nothing was done documentation will show clearly the negligence is clear should have been resolved at Fort Leonard Wood MO. Attending Physician should have made a clear decision as to condition and status of this injury and did not. A failure to maintain US. Army Regulations and standards. At the time of this injury my age was 17 years old a minor and the responsibility lies with the US Army. Completed AIT Fort Sam Houston Texas as a Combat Medic received Graduation documents and transferred to permanent duty station HHC 1st and the 19th Schofield Barracks medical platoon June 30, 1977. Still the injury remains a constant issue as documented and yet it was neglected by responsible adult individuals that represent The United States Army my supervisors' right up the chain of command. Finally more than a year later this injury is addressed as documentation shows Tripler Army Hospital. I was hospitalized for more than 50 days. I also had a consultation or evaluation request from Ortho Dr. S Shah June 9, 1978 for agitated state. As documentation shows mental status: Alert childish, truculent. Wants out of service. IMP: No psychiatric disease. PLAN: no meds required, To be followed up by Dr Melieste, Should recommend Admin sep. when he returns to unit Return to unit from hospitalization .When I did return to my unit July 18, 1978 with a medical profile from Dr. Landry Light Duty for 3 months. My superiors had already prepared to creatively discharge me other than a medical or an Admin separation. Once again the US. Army has failed to maintain standards and regulations while I am still under physicians care for a medical profile until October 17, 1978 and a follow up by Dr. Melieste for a psychiatric evaluation. The Discharge proceedings had begun which were initiated by my superiors as for this record of counseling There is no proof of this in my record a mere fabrication or creative writing by these individuals because they knew I wanted out of the army because of the injury. The U S. Army once again failed to address the medical issues and I was discharged or bullied out of the US. Army and it was not noted during this discharge that I am injured and under doctor's orders with a medical profile until October 17, 1978. I was not even medically rated for this injury upon reaching San Francisco for military separation .For the next Thirty years the prediction of my superiors of which I will encounter ( in separation papers){ Quote}: 3. I understand that if I am issued a General Discharge under honorable conditions I may expect to encounter substantial prejudice in civilian life. {Unquote}For this statement is so accurate as to what I have encounter in the Job market USPS documents are attached I also applied as a police officer with the NYC Port Authority back in the 1980s also with the State of New Jersey as a supervisor in support position for Painters subsequently this to is a prejudice I have encounter and never had gainful employment. To This Day The Veterans Administration organizations Regional Office or Hospitals Have yet to acknowledge and or address this issue. When I ever I have gone to a VA hospital clearly the treating physicians states allegedly this veteran has an injury from the military 1977 and so forth when all of this documentation is already established and yet they fail once again accountability for this injury. As you review this documentation it is very clear the errors the United States Army and the injustice to follow. As for me I am 48 years old now and the quality of life has only gotten worse that you have to deal with mean spirited individuals at the various Veterans Administration regional office or hospital .Instead of how may I help you get your only entitled to emergency care here! After going to the VA Hospital for so many years. Again I think let the record show as for these documents I present to you clearly show the vast errors and the injustice and prejudice I have endured over thirty years and continue to do so. And yet you ask of me to pick up a weapon and take a life when you have taken mine. With Great sorrow I write this for this is something that should have not occurred. IAM GOING TO PUBLISH ANY AND ALL DOCUMENTATION THAT HAS MY NAME ATTACHED TO IT TO SHOW THIS INJUSTICE SO THAT OTHERS WILL NOT HAVE TOO ENDURE SUCH PREJUDICE .

February 23, 2008

One issue, when I was 5 or 6 years old, not doing my schoolwork, how stupid. There is only that one statement. All the depression issues started when I was in the service, It happend there, I was treated for it there and I have black and white

Genuine U>S> Navy documentation from Oak KNoll Naval Hospital to prove it. I am getting really torqued the more I think about

This. They talk about BVA, AMC decisions setting off PTSD/Depression well they have sure as hell done it to me. I am getting extremely angry.

RSG,

Seems like we both got one of those little dumb SSOC from the Appeals Management Center.

They sure don't make any sense in anything that they are saying.

The "preponderance of evidence"????

What medical records does the VA have in their possession of any treatment of any kind for the illness you are trying to connect to service.

Did you ever walk into a doctor's office before service or even complaint about any illness during your enlistment examination.

We are fighting the same thing.

I can tell you, that you can type until you are red and purple and the Va the BVA and the AMC will not believe a word you say.

You have 60 days to respond with new evidence.

What about the doctor who came to this site, and is quite qualified to do an IMO for you or if you are close to VA Beach go see him for an evaluation.

That is the only way that I can see you getting around their little white, big black slanderous lies!

Betty

February 23, 2008

I have submitted multiple NOD's, these jerks keep ignoring the facts. They just said that my childhood trip to a psychologist when I was 5 or 6 years old. I wouldn't do my school work.

what evidence or rationale did they say they considered to say you had pre existing condition?

where did they get that idea?

Do you have a service officer or rep helping you?

When I worked at a vet center the vets always said'before, during, and after' meaning how the Vietnam War changed them when the joined the mil, during the war and after their DEROS-

but a vet should focus solely on during and after for any VA claim-

They got this idea from interpreting something somewhere in your med recs and they have to tell you what their rationale is-
How much time do you have and can you in fact rebutt all this right away to the VA and ask them to specify ay documentation at all that shows what they said is actually fact.?

If you filed a NOD AFTER June 21, 2007 you are eligible to seek an attorney under the new Attotrney for vet regs-

Otherwise you will need a good service rep from AL, DAV, VFW, VVA,

February 23, 2008

yes I have everything, I think. What is the IMO? I know that I was misquoted, and the examiner took a lot of what I said outof context, and worded it too suit the VA needs for denial of my claim. That's why I need to write a rebuttal letter with reference to the C&P as well as the addendum. It is definitely written improperly. She, the examiner said things In the Exam, that were

outright lies.

Do you have a copy of the C&P and C&P addendum? I'm guessing that AXES I & II state PD. They are probably pulling this game on your, too. If you haven't, go get a complete copy of your VAMR's and search out all the MH stuff. Then go get a IMO, or two. Then file to re-open the claim with new and material evidence. I think that would be faster than appealing at your level.

February 23, 2008

I think I have those. Would anybody be willing to look at the documentation letters I have from all these Dr's and stuff, to see if they are correct, or have the required nexus that is referred to.

An excellent discussion regarding the concept of a nexus is included in Major John Roche's book"The Veterans Survival Guide" (Second Edition). Element Three is of particular note. I'll quote from Page 73:

"Your whole claim is built around satisfying these three elements:

1. In-service incurrence, 2. Current illness, and 3. Causal relationship between them. To satisfy Element One, you need to prove the injury or illness did in fact occur in the service. You need solid evidence that cannot be refuted or at least carry sufficient weight to tip the scales in your favor.

2. Element Two must establish you are currently disabled by the injury or illness. Without evidence supporting this element, the VA has no duty to assist. I have had veterans coming into the office saying they want to file the claim to get it on the record. In cases like this, the only thing that will get on the record is that your claim was denied. If the condition does not flare up within a year of the denial letter, the only way you will get the claim reopened is by providing new and material evidence. That may be a lot more difficult to deal with.

3. Element Three is the bridge element. In other words, on one side of the river is where the event occurred and on the other side is your current illness or disability. You need evidence that will build the span across the river. You need to make the connection obvious or the claim could be denied. If you are claiming an illness, take the time to research it on the Internet. You can find out all kinds of information that would support your claim."

February 23, 2008

This is the last Paragraph in the SSOC from tha Appeals management center, That I got last week.

New medical opinions have been received to link the current disability to service. However the preponderance of evidence

of the evidence show that the disability existed prior to service and was not aggravated by service. The service medical records show the disability existed prior to service. VA examination in May 2005 with addendum dated june 2005 showed the current disability was unrelated to inservice symptoms. A greater weight is assigned to the opinion of the VA examiner based on evidence, including the complete reviews of service medical records and the complete reasons for the opinion. Therefore the entitlement to service connection is not established.

All the VA doctors, civilian doctors, laypersons statements and the original NAVY medical treatment records show that The first time this depression thing occured while I was in the service, and I was treated for it for 4 months or more while i was in the service. What the F is going on here.Why are they doing this to me. Do I need to go to an attorney now.

February 23, 2008

Hi folks,

I'm still fighting this, I need to know if I already have a nexus in these letters from VA doctors. Or if the appeals management center is looking for something else, I just need to know what a nexus is, exactly.

Please.

February 22, 2008

i am positive that it is wrong.

February 22, 2008

What happened was this, my Claim has gone thru the system (9 times), and about over 2 years ago it went to BVA,

it has gone thru there and was remanded to the D.C. VRO instead of being sent back to the original VRO, It has now

been in the AMC in D.C. for six months. It was a three part claim. PISD/chemical exposure/Major Depression. i did not

have enough physical evidence they tell me, to prove PTSD/Chemical Exposure. I was also advised by DAV to drop the

PTSD/Cemical Issue. By the time that happened they had already decided to deny those portions of my claim. I am

connected to SSD for Major depression and cognitive disorders. I have supplied the AMC with letters from civilian Dr's,

VA Dr's,all show a connection to service, LMSW's, Laypersons, family, SSD and their Dr's. More than a dozen total. My

depression was discovered,diagnosed and I was treated for 4 or 6 month's at Oak Knoll Naval Hospital, and then

discharged with an Honorable. In 1969. Now AMC wants me to write a letter telling them why I disagree with a C&P

exam I had for PTSD in 2005,. She said I had Biploar disorder not PTSD. So remember The PTSD claim was dropped

and denied. So what good is that exam anyway, besides it being full of lies. the are giving me 60 days for my

Disagreement/Rebuttal reply letter. McCain, and some other Senators and Congressmen know what's up. I have been

fighting this for 38 years, and it sucks.

I hope this helps your understanding.

Thanks

RSG, can you help us help you? If I re-read your post it shows you were denied for ptsd and chemical exposure. Can you tell us what the SSOC said? What are you SSD connected for? Tha may also support if you there is more to your needs. The best to ya, cg

February 22, 2008

no, it was chemicals in the ground, water, air. It is explained elsewhere in this forum.

RSG

How long did you serve and did you serve in Vietnam? You said chemical exposure. Was it agent orange?

February 22, 2008

that does not surprize me at all, You should see mine, Exactly the same type of idiocy.

The vet I am helping had a C&P in November. We thought at the time that it went pretty well. It did not ! His claim was for several medical issues, no PTSD or any other mental problems.

When we got a copy of the exam it looked like she had examined some other guy, not my friend.

There were so many errors it was not funny. She said he arrived in a wheelchair, he did not. She said he failed a mental test, and "seemed to be out of it". I was there she did not give him any such test, and there is nothing wrong with his mind. Then she said he was inconsistent in his statements and although was in severe pain and very fatigued, "he exaggerated his symptoms". She is obviously trying to discredit him.
She made a complete mess out of the medical claims. What she said did not make medical sense if you knew anything about the conditions.

I had a doctor look at the report. When he got finished reading all 75 pages of it this is what he said " What a crock"!

He is ready to rebutt her entire report , but we are waiting to see what the rating officer does and how much importance the errors weigh on the decision,then it will be easier to see exactly what needs to be rebutted. Some of her errors could actually be helpful.

When it comes to anything medical your best chance is to have a doctor tear down all of the negatives. The VA won't give lay opinions any credence in medical matters even if you have a slew of research reports that back up what you say. You have to have a doctor tell them that they are wrong and why.

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