Help On Intrepreting Marine Vets Dd 214

[jessejames]

I knew a Marine Vietnam vet for probably 10-12 years, he and I were not close but I helped him file some disability claims and I had never seen his DD 214. I could not stand to be around him very long or for that matter ANYONE who BRAGS of all their Medals etc from Nam. He bragged constantly about his "Recon" duty in Nam, said he received 2 Purple Hearts, Silver Star amd other Medals, I always felt uncomfortable and felt he was doing a lot of exaggerating. His funeral was on May 28, 2007 and I attended.....the Preacher explained how he was a "Hero" serving not one but two tours in Vietnam and receiving two Purple Hearts. Anyway, his wife asked me to help in filing for the VA Life Insurance and Burial Benefits etc. I have his DD 214. It shows a total of 18 months active service with 12 months in Vietnam ending 11/24/1970..... so it was nowhere near the end of war. DD 214 shows NO Purple Hearts! It shows National Defense Service Medal, Vietnam Service Medal, Marksman Rifle Badge, Vietnam Campaign Medal w/Device, Combat Action Ribbon.

My questions are:

1. Is the Marine Combat Action Ribbon the same as an Army Combat Infantryman's Badge?

2. After 18 months, he was transferred to Marine Corps Reserve with reason given in line 11. © MCO 1900.2F & MCBul 1910 of 8 June 70 21G CofG Par 6012.1a Marcorsepman

3. Under Line 23a (Speciality Number & Title 0311 Rifleman )

4. Line 13a Character of Service (Honorable) b. Type of Certificate Issued (N/A)

5. Line 15 Reenlistment Code (RE-1B)

Does anyone know what these mean?? I thought active Marine service was 3 years and Nam tour of duty was 13 months???

This DD 214 has a Seal stamped on it and came to him as a result of his request for Discharge Certificate DD 214 from Navy Reference Branch of the National Personnel Records Center, so I assume this is ALL they had on him.

[recruiterrick]

the silver star and purple hearts would have been on his DD214. Since they were not, copies of the certificates or orders probably is enough to ask for a DD215 (correction of DD214). i don't know why he would only have 18 month actice duty but, he was eligible for reenlistment.

Furthermore if we was a volunteer, he would have incurred a 6 year military service obligation. A discharge cerificate was probably sent to his home of record address on his DD214.

i have known many people as you described that brag and claim awards and decorations that may or not be true. but in this case there may very well be more than meets the eyes.

an 0311 is a basic rifleman. all marines are trained as 0311's that's why there basic is longer than any other service. 0311 would also be the primary occupation specialty for recon.

also on the bottom, next to th re code should be another code spd/spn. this could help find out the reason for discharge a little easier

Edited June 26, 2007 by recruiterrick

[recruiterrick]

the marine corps combat action ribbon is equivalent to the combat infantry or medical badge.

Edited June 26, 2007 by recruiterrick

[jessejames]

The DD 214 says 18 months "active duty", 1 year foreign service which with VN campaign and service medals show was Vietnam. Under Line 18 "Prior Regular Enlistments "NONE". How did he do two tours of duty in Nam in 1 year?? Although not conclusive evidence by any means about the Purple Hearts, he was drawing NO compensation for any physical wounds(known for a fact) and he never would say where his wounds were. I have since found evidence on the reduction of forces in the Marines in 1970, and the reenlistment code means "RE-1B - Individuals who have not been tested to verify primary MOS during current term of service. Fully qualified for enlistment" http://usmilitary.about.com/od/theorderlyroom/l/blcode3.htm This sounds strange to me, his MOS was "Riflemen". The DD 214 also states under Line 23a "Speciality Number & Title" Rifleman and 23b (Related Civilian Occupation and D.O.T. Number) " 8-93.77 Proof Tech Helper".

I have been a Veterans Advocate for a long time, going back to 1980 trained undered a Certified Vietnam Veterans of America Service Officer and serving as Assistant for many years....I have had lots of guys who claim LOUD and LONG about Awards etc and for everyone of these that I ever got to see his DD 214, these things were NOT true. He always said that he was a "MARINE" and that an Army Combat Infantryman would not dare to be compared with a "MARINE", and always quoting HIS 2 Tours of Duty and all that other stuff, I doubted his service then because of too much loud mouth bragging. My Record of Assignments shows I was a Lgt Weapons Infantryman, Squad Leader, a M-60 Machine Gunner, and a Drill/Platoon Sgt Duty MOS 00F4B after returning from Nam. My DD 214 shows my MOS 11B40, all my Awards including National Defense Medal, Purple Heart, Air Medal, Bronze Star, Combat Infantryman's Badge, Good Conduct Medal, Expert Badge M-60, M-14, M-16. and all the normal VN Medals. I don't brag on this...just compared to his DD 214 his is like an almost blank sheet of paper. If he lied about the Tours of Duty, I see no reason to believe any of the other. I didn't order the DD 214, he ordered it in 1999 ...it seems logical to me that if this DD 214 was NOT complete that he would have requested corrections at that time. I only got it with "ALL" his Military Papers which his wife gave me to file the DIC claim etc. She said he had been rated 100% PTSD from about 1994, but I may need to check that before filing the DIC claim since I haven't got any record showing that. I hope that I haven't done all this VA paperwork for nothing since I was going by the 10 year 100% rule http://www.vba.va.gov/benefit_facts/Depend.../DICeg_0107.doc . His Death Certificate says major reasons for death was CVA Stroke and Hypertension resulting in untrollable seizures, none of which he was service-connected for.

Edited June 26, 2007 by jessejames

[Berta]

Jesse- I see stuff like this too-

about a year ago one of my vet orgs sent me a widows claim asking of the widow could call me and discuss the claim-

The claim was based on death resulting from Agent Orange and obviously Vietnam service.Also the widow claimsed the veteran had a Purple Heart from Vietnam.

I asked instead for a copy of the DD 214 first-and the exact cause and manner of death as stated on the first part of the death certificate.

When I got it I made sure that there was no other DD 214 in existence-that was how unbelievable it was-

NO foreign service-

NO PUrple Heart

and NO death by AO or any other SC condition nor did I see any potential for DIC in any other way.

His discharge was not Honorable.

What the widow had failed to tell the rep that sent this to me was where her husband died-why he died there-long story-

and after a search of the BVA web site-

that the veteran had already been found by the BVA to have a Character of Discharge that prevented him from receipt of any VA benefits.

I hear your frustration-

I have not read the Do they think were dump topic yet- but I often think

the same thing when I get crap claims like this one.

It takes considerable time to assess a claim and look for any potential way to SC a claim-as you know-

and I sure have dealt with some wannabees.

I learned at some point- when I know the claim has no merit- to just not help with it-and refer the vet to someone else-to a paid service officer- I have wasted too much time as a volunteer on claims

without any merit -in the past.

And often these were claims where the vet would have all sorts of excuses for not having a service officer- because they knew the claim was bogus.

My husband was a Marine and also he was in the Navy-Combat Vietnam veteran.

When I joined the Legion Auxiliiary -I had to bring his DD 214s-he had 2-and his DD 215.

The CHaplain of the AL announced that I was a new member based on Rod'service and that he was a highly decorated veteran ( gee if he had been there he would have winced-because- most of the people in my life for decades are combat veterans-and they NEVER brag about their awards or anythng heroic)

A vet my daughter helped to get the DFC-over 30 years after the fact -could not even go to the formal ceremony and asked his Congressman to cancel it-

He sent me a beautiful photo of the award citation , a write up in the news-and picture of the DFC itself and a long letter describing his heartbreak as- in spite of this tremendous honor-men had died- and he would never get over what the DFC resulted from.

It even made his PTSD worse for a while-

Maybe I should read this whole scroll- I dont know what triggered all this- but I say-

when it walks like a duck-it is a duck-

at some point you get a feeling that something isnt kosher-

not always but sometimes-

I have even had vets here telling me their story- and then when I send them to the local state reps-

either they dont even go or the story changes considerably by the time they get there.

"Assuming you are reading the DD214 correctly, 18 months on active duty in 1970 is really short and would have been accompanied by something out of the ordinary"

Recruiter is right-

The USMC enlistment to the best of my knowledge up to and during this time frame was 4 years with 2 years reserves.

And those SPN codes might hold plenty of info.

[Guest terrysturgis]

From personal experience when I was drafted in April 1968, every other one of us was drafted into the Marines. That may be the reason for a shorter term of active duty. When the line formed I did the math and got in line to go into the Army. As life would have it when I arrived in Nam I wound up Northern I Corps on the DMZ, most of the time with Marines. Jesse, thanks for trying to help this vet's wife. Terry Sturgis

[recruiterrick]

when i retired from the army, my dd214 was completed im may, i had terminal leave until 7/31/07. in september i got a package in the mail. it was a meritorious service medal. i didn't think nothin of it; with that medal and a buck twenty five, i could get a cup of cofee. in jan 2004 i sent for a dd215, no record of the msm. now i could take the time to take the msm out of the frame and send it to st. louis, but why.

you can't assume that a DD214 is complete. and all veterans won't or don't take tim e to correct them in a timely manner. most do but some don't.