Dependents Effective Date

[broncovet]

Received a call from the VA. I have appealed the effective date for dependents benefits. I have found, on my original application (21-526) in 2002 that my VSO has listed my dependent children. However, the 2004 RO decision stated they were paying me as Single, No dependents.

The person who called said that, since it took more than a year for them to make the decision, I was required to send my dependents in AGAIN, when I did not do that, it meant I would never get paid for dependents from 2002 to 2006.

Is this right?

I have documentation that shows I listed dependents in 2002, and I thought that if there was a change, I was required to report changes..no report of changes meant no changes in dependents.

Does anyone know of the regulations on this? I really dont see how they can deny my dependents benefits in 2002, when I have documentation to show that I applied for dependendents benefits back then.

There is a shredding issue..I think they shredded my dependents form. Has anyone experienced this, or knows any regulation that says we have to put in for dependents a second time when it takes them more than a year to make a decision?

I also got a decision today denying an EED on dependents benefits. In "reasons and basis", it says, "There was not additional dependency information furnished at that time".

However, I have documentation to show that I did, in fact, list dependents at that time (2002).

Edited August 26, 2009 by broncovet

[deltaj]

Received a call from the VA. I have appealed the effective date for dependents benefits. I have found, on my original application (21-526) in 2002 that my VSO has listed my dependent children. However, the 2004 RO decision stated they were paying me as Single, No dependents.

The person who called said that, since it took more than a year for them to make the decision, I was required to send my dependents in AGAIN, when I did not do that, it meant I would never get paid for dependents from 2002 to 2006.

Is this right?

I have documentation that shows I listed dependents in 2002, and I thought that if there was a change, I was required to report changes..no report of changes meant no changes in dependents.

Does anyone know of the regulations on this? I really dont see how they can deny my dependents benefits in 2002, when I have documentation to show that I applied for dependendents benefits back then.

There is a shredding issue..I think they shredded my dependents form. Has anyone experienced this, or knows any regulation that says we have to put in for dependents a second time when it takes them more than a year to make a decision?

I also got a decision today denying an EED on dependents benefits. In "reasons and basis", it says, "There was not additional dependency information furnished at that time".

However, I have documentation to show that I did, in fact, list dependents at that time (2002).

I believe you can be granted a favorable decision under 38 USC 5110 (f) if you submit the Declaration of the Status of dependents form and all the required documentation as required by 38 CFF 3.205. I think this would include certified copies of marriage certificates, divorce decrees, and birth certificates for children. Please read 38 USC 5110 (f) because there is a lot of money stake.

Edited August 28, 2009 by deltaj

[pacmanx1]

If the veteran submitted this information when he filed the claim why should he have to resubmit it. This is stupid, broncovet looks like you have to file a NOD

[broncovet]

Thank you pete and delta..I agree with both of you. The VA's "position" is that I got a RO decision that listed me as a single person which became final after a year.

I think that means that I have to meet the "CUE" standard, fortunately, whether or not I have children/dependents or not should be easy to prove. I am frustrated that the Va just wont pay me for this..why do they make me go to court to prove the obvious? I know the answer..they know that many Veterans will lack the knowledge/persistance to appeal this, and will just give up and they will win again.

[carlie]

Received a call from the VA. I have appealed the effective date for dependents benefits. I have found, on my original application (21-526) in 2002 that my VSO has listed my dependent children. However, the 2004 RO decision stated they were paying me as Single, No dependents.

The person who called said that, since it took more than a year for them to make the decision, I was required to send my dependents in AGAIN, when I did not do that, it meant I would never get paid for dependents from 2002 to 2006.

Is this right?

I have documentation that shows I listed dependents in 2002, and I thought that if there was a change, I was required to report changes..no report of changes meant no changes in dependents.

Does anyone know of the regulations on this? I really dont see how they can deny my dependents benefits in 2002, when I have documentation to show that I applied for dependendents benefits back then.

There is a shredding issue..I think they shredded my dependents form. Has anyone experienced this, or knows any regulation that says we have to put in for dependents a second time when it takes them more than a year to make a decision?

I also got a decision today denying an EED on dependents benefits. In "reasons and basis", it says, "There was not additional dependency information furnished at that time".

However, I have documentation to show that I did, in fact, list dependents at that time (2002).

Bronco,

Here's what I see and only my opinion.

1) The 21-526 form is the one and only original application for SC of

VA disability and/or pension benefits. This form is not a blanket

control item for other issues such as dependent benefits, educational benefits,

VA home load gaurantee, etc...

the 21-526 is an application for SC of disability and/or pension.

Just because your dependents are listed on the 21-526 does not mean

(at all) that when a rating decision is promulgated and compensation is granted

that VA then looks at your 21-526 inorder to add any dependent benefits to the award.

Prior to I think 1975 - a SC'd vet had to be rated at 50 % SC

to be eligible for additional dependent compensation, I believe the change to

30 % went into effect around 1975.

Dependent compensation does not even come into play until a rating decision grants SC compensation.

Example of the steps to dependent pay:

1) Veteran submits 21-526

2) SC compensation is granted at 30 % or higher (post 1975 change from 50 %).

VARO should send VA form21-686c to claimant along with official award letter.

3) Veteran returns VA form 21-686c to VARO along with all documentation of dependents

requested on this form.

This form and the additional information requested needs to be submitted within one year.

If this is done within this timeframe, dependent compensation should go back to the date the veteran was granted SC compensation at 30 % or higher.

FYI - I am struggling to get dependent pay back from 1978.

jmho,

carlie

[broncovet]

Carlie

Thank you for your response. Altho I can see your point, I am hopefull that a Vets advocate I talked to a few years ago is right: You dont have to file your documents on a particular form number to be valid. He said you could file a claim on a napkin, and if it contained all the evidence, your claim would have to be awarded by law. While there is no doubt in my mind the VA uses all excuses to deny, and especially invalid excuses like, "you sent the correct information in on the wrong form". I do know that a claim has to be signed by a Veteran to be valid. But, I am guessing you could sign a napkin that says, "I certify that everything written on this napkin is true to the best of my knowledge".

The case in point is Moody vs Prinipii, which states, in pertinent part:

"The VA regulation governing informal claims provides that: Any communication or action, indicating an intent to apply for one or more benefits under the laws administered by the Department of Veterans Affairs, from a claimant, his or her duly authorized representative, a Member of Congress, or some person acting as next friend of a claimant who is not sui juris may be considered an informal claim. Such informal claim must identify the benefit sought."

I think this is, in part, what Alex was talking about when he said to the effect that when a Veteran tells his VA doc he is unemployed, that constitutes an informal claim for TDIU. (I am pretty sure the Veteran would have already applied for benefits, and this statement would constittue an INCREASE in benefits. However, that is not clear to me)

The way I interpret this is that any communication or action is acceptable, and that there is no requirement of any particular form number to establish an informal claim. Yes, I do think the Vetran will need to follow up, with a formal claim on the right form, with all i's dotted and t's crossed, which I have done, but the informal claim, even if it is on a napkin, establishes the effective date.

I hope I am right about this.

Edited August 28, 2009 by broncovet

[carlie]

bronco,

I stand firm in my opinion that the 21-686c and the additional evidence requested

must be submitted prior to dependent's compensation being paid.

Now I will say there is a chance of this being over-ridden.

IF AFTER, 30 % or higher of SC comp has been granted -

the claimant submits on any peice of paper

ALL OF THE INFORMATION AND DOCUMENTATION THAT IS ASKED AND REQUESTED

as contained on the 21-686c,

then that should be considered as a claim for dependent compensation.

In other words if on that peice of paper the claimant list

Names Addresses, DOB, SSA #, includes copies of divorce decrees, marriage certificates,

birth certificates, adoption papers etc...

carlie

Here are some cases for study.

http://www.va.gov/vetapp06/files4/0627277.txt

http://www.va.gov/vetapp06/files4/0629475.txt

http://www.va.gov/vetapp06/files2/0606628.txt

http://www.va.gov/vetapp08/files3/0819294.txt

Although the evidence shows that VA had notice of the

veteran's marriage in 1970, the Board finds that the RO's

request for a completed VA Form 21-686c was reasonable under

the circumstances of this case, as his spouse's social

security number was not of record. See 38 C.F.R. §§ 3.204,

3.216. The veteran's failure to respond to the RO's request

meant that the RO was not fully informed of his spouse's

social security number until the information was provided in

December 2005.

The laws are clear that to establish entitlement to

additional benefits for a dependent spouse, the mere fact

that the veteran has submitted evidence showing that he or

she is married is not sufficient to award such benefits. He

was also required to provide his spouse's social security

number. The RO was not obligated to begin paying additional

benefits for a dependent spouse until this information was

received. The veteran was required to follow through with

specific information after VA compensation benefits were

awarded to him, as required by law. He failed to do so. As

more than a year had elapsed since the veteran's 30 percent

disability rating was assigned, and the receipt of the

required information, the RO was entitled to make the

increase in compensation for the veteran's dependent spouse

effective from the first day of the month following the month

in which the required information on his dependent spouse was

received.

Accordingly, for the reasons and bases discussed above, the

veteran's appeal must be denied on the basis of lack of

entitlement under the law. See Sabonis v. Brown, 6 Vet. App