Va Supervisor Threatens Me

[Cruinthe]

So I pass out cards and generally BS with my fellow veterans when I am in the VARO waiting area. I spoke to one young man about his case. After the conversation, a VA supervisor walked up to him and loudly warned him to not listen to my advice, and not to talk to me at all.

Fast forward to today, I went in to the VARO to clarify an issue about my DRO hearing. I asked the same VA supervisor about the conversation he had with the young man, and I was warned again that I may not speak with anyone while waiting at the VARO.

Anyone have any feedback on this?

[SLEDGE]

"rules that don't apply to non-professionals."

That's where Freedom looms.

I believe we have not been afforded enough information about this particular veteran's representation and we may never know anything about who he was talking to when BIG BROTHER stepped in.

Unless the 2 vets were talking about race, religion, politics or telling off-color jokes very loudly and refused to pipe down when asked to by a third party, what is the point of law that gives the VA dude the authority to tell a vet to shut up?

Being listed as a member of a veteran's organization does not give that veteran's organization 'power of attorney' over the listed veteran. The VA hasn't made the veteran's advocacy list yet that I know off. They always sit on the other side. The VA guy was only representing the VA and himself, not a veteran.

I'm listed as a member of several veteran's organizations and none of them have any legal standing to speak on my behalf.

The power of attorney can only be enjoyed by one representative at a time.

Did the VA dude have enough information to justify his authoritative and instructional statements?

What did he 'think' he heard?

What's the VA dudes pay grade? He may not have enough horsepower to open his mouth in the first place.

2 veterans having a conversation is not breaking any law or VA rule.

The VA dude was eavesdropping in the first place.

Invasion of privacy.

In the circumstances as LarryJ posted here, the VA person would be guilty of denying somebody's civil rights.

sledge

[Cruinthe]

Ok I will try to answer the questions here, and some of them are absolutely superb. Thanks ALL for the input!

At this point I do not ask veterans to sign off a 21-22a POA. I merely advise veterans as to their options, and escort them in to the VARO to assist in filling out forms, if needed. Even if I did, I would be LEGALLY allowed to do so under the new "one time rule".

The pay grade of the VA dude in question is level 7 supervisor, bu his own admittance.

"2 veterans having a conversation is not breaking any law or VA rule. The VA dude was eavesdropping in the first place." - EXCELLENT point! And I heard with my own ears the VA guy loudly ORDERING the person in question to NOT talk to me. I was not even 10 feet away, just around the corner.

"What are the legal ins and outs to being a VSO? How does one get to be so?" My research shows that the short path is to seek "accreditation" by the VA. This is done my asking the VA lawyers to test you. If you pass, you are accredited. The easy path is to take training from one of the service orgs. All your paperwork is passed through the hands of someone thats been accredited by the VA. The only flaw in this system is, the service orgs serve as GATE KEEPERS!

"I am certified by the NVLSP as a veterans advocate. This is good, I suppose, but, are you, in fact an accredited veterans service officer, authorized by the VA Office of General Counsel to represent veterans for a recognized and authorized Veterans Service Organization, and are you properly prepared to do so? And, are you, in fact, covered by an insurance policy that covers "mal-practice", just in case you should inadvertently incorrectly advise a veteran and he/she suffers monetary loses due to your representation?"

I will be filing for accreditation before the end of this month, but that is not the point here. Is anyone here willing to concede that the VA has the power to silence all discussion? I will speak to whom I wish, if not, I will see the VA in court. And good bloody luck finding one person that is not happy with the service I provide. I am barely 2 months into this, officially, and I have 4 veterans that are chomping at the bit, eager and ready to sign sworn statements that I am good at what I do.

"There may very well be some rules that apply to licensed veterans advocates that prevent you from speaking to veterans who are represented by someone else... rules that don't apply to non-professionals." -- I would very much like to see the DAV in a courtroom trying to explain the logic behind not allowing someone, anyone, to speak.

"I would find a media person who wants to break a National Story." -- The balls is already rolling, and thats just the start of it. One of my lawyers reviewed the clip and all said through the whole thing was "Thats a felony, theres another, this guy an idiot and hes going to jail, theres another felony"

I warned you all not time ago that the VA was about to suffer a massive public relations disaster. That time is now.

[Hoppy]

This topic does involve several different issues that can be viewed on several different perspectives. I have had several senior veterans service officers tell me that I can discuss my claim with them even though I am represented by another service organization. However, my discussions with the senior service officers occurred on their property in their offices. In each case I told the senior veteran service officer that I was dissatisfied with the service officer and a service organization that was currently representing me and I was trying to decide if I should change service officer. I was told by the senior service officer that they were in fact allowed to talk to me.

There may be some restrictions that limit a person’s right to speak and maintain a presence while on private property. The offices of the Veterans Administration may not be construed as public property. It may be viewed as public property with limited access defined by intent for which the property was designated. Personally I would not try to push the issue that I have the right to engage in any speech or even pass out business cards to persons sitting in the lobby of the VA or any service organization.

I went to the regional office to talk to a veteran’s benefits counselor with a veteran who I had been assisting. The veterans claim had been denied four times in five years. During the five-year period the veteran had two different service organizations and three different service officer. They had obtained three reports from VA clinicians to be used as new and material evidence. None of the efforts and none of the doctors reports were successful in being determined to be new and material evidence. Once I got involved I obtain one report from a VA clinician and the veteran was awarded service connection. The veteran was so pissed off he fired his service officer. So I went to the regional office to try and decide if I should take over as the service officer. The veterans benefits counselor immediately tried to kick me out of the office saying that I couldn’t be present when he talk to the veteran. After I explained to the veteran’s benefits counselor that the veteran wanted me to be there and that I was trying to decide whether I wanted to represent the veteran or not he changed his mind and told me I could stay.

Since the original confrontation with the veteran’s benefits counselor I have gone back on several occasions. The veteran’s benefits counselor and I get along real well. He was telling me about some problems he was having with a own claim. I told the guy that he needed to start reading BVA cases. He did not even know how to find them. I told him about the BVA website and I told him about hadit.

[Cruinthe]

Oh Good Lord a benefits counselor that dont know how to do a simple BVA search?

Anyhow, Fox News is picking up my story, should hit the circuit before the end of the month.

Next stop, ACLU!

Hang on kiddies, its gonna be a bumpy ride!

[hulamatt]

I appreciate the feedback I am getting here. This restores my waning faith in veterans and humanity in general.

Now, you guys tell me what you think of this little tidbit.

I am helping a veteran transfer his file. So we go into the Roanoke VARO and ask to speak to a VA rep (we did not ask for DAV or VFW, or AL, but VA employee). So out comes this short little girl wearing a dark green shirt. She asks to my buddy, "are you Norman?" and he replies yes. She says to follow her, I get up and go with him.

As soon as we are in the hallway, this person turns and says to me "why are you?" and I reply "I am with Norm" and she replies "yeah well, why?" and I explain I am helping Norman with his VA claim and that I am certified by the NVLSP as a veterans advocate. Then Norman figures out that this chick is DAV, and he says "I canceled my POA with DAV" and this girl says...get this..."YEAH, I KNOW YOU DID". And me and Norm are like, WTF?! Over?

So she says to Norm "well I cant talk to you" and she heads back into the lobby area. When we get to the lobby, she stops, get RIGHT in my face, jabs a finger in my chest and ORDERS ME "you dont talk to anyone in this area, you dont talk to HIM, you dont talk to HIM, and you dont talk to HIM" as she points to 3 veterans sitting in the lobby, then she adds "they belong to ME!" and she turns about and walks into the RO office area.

Needless to say, Norman was stunned, I just sat there and smiled because I am totally used to this sort of behavior by the VA.

thats not behavior by the VA thats DAV, dont get them confused

[Cruinthe]

Well, considering the fact that;;

1) There was a VA employee sitting barely 5 feet away from us the whole time

2) Had it been ME behaving in a same manner as the DAV rep (getting in someones face, being verbally abusive, jabbing fingers and shouting orders), the security guards would have tazered me, then he U.S Marshals would have shot me dead

3) The DAV rep admitted she knew Norman had cancelled the DAV as his POA, but she came out anyway, even through we asked for a VA rep, not a DAV rep, so that means this entire event was a provocation orchestrated by the VA and the DAV with the intent to entice me into a physical confrontation, otherwise known as entrapment.

I have discussed this subject with a very senior veterans rights figure. He has been able to confirm from an actual VA employee that the VA does in fact utilize informants to spy on "problem veterans". These informants are recruited from the ranks of the service organizations. I am not sure if this fact is going to be exposed at this time, but I am moving in that direction.

So I again assert that the VA is working in tandem with the service orgs, and both groups are merely two sides of the same corrupt coin.