Agent Orange And The Navy

[bobbyq]

. I represent a Vietnam Navy vet with health issues A/O related. His ship docked in Da Nang and the Veterans Administration themselves gave us proof of this action THEMSELVES. Further the veteran provided a letter from a fellow seaman attesting to the fact they did dock in Da Nang. The VA has denied the claim and we are going on almost two years back and forth. They say, I quote: We have weighed the evience submitted in support of your claim and have determined that there is conflicting information in your letter submitted by R Cellille and the response from USASCRUR. You submitted a letter by RC stating that he served with you in the Navy on the USS POWER. Mr. RC stated that the USS POWER docked for refueling DA NANG Harbor and anchored so that all you had to do was disembark by the gangplank. This information conflicts with the information verified by USASCUR which states that the USS Power anchored in DA NANG Harbor for seven hours and motor whaleboat operations were conducted from the ship to the beach with the Commanding Officer and other personnel aboard for briefings ashore. The evidence submitted does not show that you have in-country Vietnam service. The veteran should not have to put with this and he should be granted service connection. The veteran was there and it is documented! He has the medical issues related to AO! There is at least a plausible causality of his exposure and the burden of proof is met.

[Berta]

Bobby q- I just spoke to Carol from BWNVV Association- can you listen to and join the show tonight at SVR on Blue Water vets?

[bobbyq]

To be honest I do not how too..................

[Chuck75]

The VA does not recognize anchoring in Da Nang harbor as "feet on ground" etc. Some ships can use a "gangplank" to get on or off a boat. Those that I rode used a "ladder".

In the VA's eyes the words #14 anchorage, etc. killed any assumption of feet on ground. HAd the "buddy letter" said that you served as boat crew, or some other language, that might have helped.

All of that aside, the blue water web site contains information that the VA cannot refute, and just tries to ignore. How to get such information to be admissible in court falls into a lawyers domain.

Before the amphibious ships I rode were put on the "list", I had to prove "feet on ground". Although I had actually set foot on the ground of Vietnam at various locations, including Da Nang, Vung Tau, Dong Tam, Cau Viet, Cam Rahn, etc.,

"proving" it by the VA's rules was difficult. Had I saved the receipt for a tape recorder bought at the Dong Tam exchange, that might have been enough if it was still readable.

Finally, treatment records from a USAF hospital (of all things) in Vietnam got the job done. The problem that the VA capitalizes on is that permanent

Navy records, such as the ships deck logs show such things as the captain coming and going, departure or arrival of those with assignment "orders" to or from the ship, etc.

The records do not show such things as individual members of the ships crew routinely coming and going, or temporary assignment to such things as boat crews, etc.

I used to get tapped periodically to act as crew for the captains gig, even though I was not assigned to the deck division that was responsible for the boats.

There is no record of this in my files. Just as there is no record of qualification to stand any bridge watch position, which I routinely did on an LST for some months.

At anchor or at a pier, I also often stood watch as the "OOD" (officer of the deck) generally on the quarterdeck, and occasionally on the bridge.

This is a real oddity, because, although the routine duties are largely ceremonial and traditional, the OOD has the immediate command responsibility

and authority for the entire ship. This responsibility existed unless and until relieved by any senior "line officer" (all officers being senior to enlisted, but may not be line officers). Again, no record.

Attached is the deck log. Here is what the VARO decision said...."the letter from Mr. AD ADASDF said the he served with you and the USS Power docked for refueling Da Nang Harbor and anchored so that all you had to do to disembark by gangplank. This information conflicts with the USAS UR which states that the USS Power anchored in Da Nang Harbor for seven hours and motor whaleboat operations were conducted from the ship to the beach with the Commanding Officer and other personnel aboard for briefings ashore. The evidence does not show in-country Vietnam service.

I do not know I have more evidence from the Shad experiments that I need to look at also because the USS Power was in the middle of that and I am currently waiting for the DRO decision to come back. So...............................I really appreciate all the feedback. Learning is what it is all about and all these different approaches give me strength/ Thank

[Berta]

Here is a link to the show:

http://www.hadit.com/svr.html

Stretch is looping it to run today as well.

Chuck- I commend what you went through to prove your claim.You sure left no stone unturned.

"Had I saved the receipt for a tape recorder bought at the Dong Tam exchange, that might have been enough if it was still readable." Yes-

I bet that would have been enough evidence.

Photos of incountry can help too- but they need to reveal something definitive that shows one was actually in Vietnam.A vet sent the VA a photo of himself standing by a road sign next to what appeared to be a dense tropical woodlot. The sign said "Vietnam".

That kind of stuff wont do the trick yet other photos have helped vets considerably to prove all sorts of claims.

You can reach Carol Olzanecki and John Rossie via the Blue Water Navy site and maybe they can provide something else to help this vet.

[Berta]

Another thought:

"This information conflicts with the USAS UR which states that the USS Power " etc....

Have you attempted to get this report?

Was this a BVA decision? (it would surprise me if a VARO actually tried to get the info from USAS UR but maybe they did)

I NEVER believe anything VA refers to unless I see it myself. I learned that lesson years ago.

In 1996 the VA sent me a terrible SOC and I was so pissed I called the C & P doctor up (VA had named him in the SOC)and said I was going to sue him (I already had filed a FTCA on some other VA docs.)But we were both too upset on the phone to even talk. Then I calmed down and called him back and told him why I was angry and what the VA had quoted that he stated in the SOC ( a posthumous C & P situation) He said 'oh no-there was more' and he pulled out his copy of the exam.

In those days I had no idea a claimant could even get a copy of a C & P exam.

The VA had skillfully manipulated his words in the C & P exam and by leaving out what he ended his statement with in the SOC -and then they denied my claim with absolutely no legal or medical basis.They also iognorted evidence I had sent them that made their rendition of his statement sound ridiculous.The veteran died due to VA health care (FTCA award) so my husband could not speak for himself on this SOC because they caused his death.

I was outraged by that SOC and still have it (but even used part of it to actually support a different claim years later)

But the successful FTCA award then settled that awful SOC claim anyhow with an award.

In 2003 I called this doctor back when I filed a new claim.

I knew he couldn't render a VA opinion on it (and he reminded me that I had knocked down not one but two of his C & P exam results,with medical rationale, but by this time we were able to talk one to one and he gave me the only support I had at that point for the new claim I had just opened.If he could have done the C & P I am sure it would have been favorable. He was still familiar with my husband's case and medical situation.

My long point here is- never buy what the VA is selling unless it is good.

If the BVA got the report on the USS Power ,I would put credence into what the BVA said it stated.

If the RO got it-and quoted it - I would not believe it until I saw it myself.(and double checked the date of the Danang issue)

Carol said John Rossie is the best advocate you should contact on this issue.She is excellent on BWN widows claims but John wrote the Danang Harbor report and he and Commander John Wells have both testified at H VAC on behalf of Blue Water Veterans and Agent Orange issues.

[bobbyq]

"This information conflicts with the USAS UR which states that the USS Power " etc....

Have you attempted to get this report?

Yeah, I got the report and it says they docked, but you know what I cannot handle? It is the lackadaisical attitude that you seem to run into. I have done A LOT of investigative work in my life and I found that the facts speak for themselves and A LOT of time you have to use COMMON SENSE. The book of rules that you use does not have all the answers and you sometimes have to use your own initiative to reach a conclusion. It is not all black and white. You tell me that you live in Podunk, Idaho, I send you mail there, and have done so for the past year, but now for whatever reason I am not going to believe you and I am going to require that you give me a lease or rental agreement to prove where you live. Why? No one will tell you why we just want proof of residency. Oh yeah.........why, what came up. They will not tell you.

I file a claim with the spouse as a dependant and the veteran is getting paid with dependency. Now six months later you want a marriage certiicate? Why can you not use common sense and look at the original 21-526 and look at the marriage cert on file. This came out of nowhere when the vet died. Another thing is this 1800-8271000 number you can not get any information out of it. Yeah they are working on the claim and is in such and such department. Well look I recieved correspondence regarding the claim why can I not talk directly to the person adjudicating the claim. Why can't he/she call me? There is no personal interaction at all. They should just use the call center in India, China, where ever. I can honestly say there is no compassion, it is just a job and a paycheck. Far and in between do you find someone who cares enough to take a personal interest in your case. Oh well