National Peronnel Records Center

[HorizontalMike]

QUESTION: How can I be absolutely sure I get a copy of my COMPLETE medical records from 1972-1975?

2013, I requested and actually DID receive SOME medical records (I did not know they were incomplete) from NPRC.

2014, I requested(*see attached) medical records from 1972-end of 1975, and got this response from the NPRC:

"ORIGINAL MEDICAL RECORD NEEDED TO ANSWER YOUR INQUIRY IS NOT IN YOUR FILES; THAT MEDICAL RECORD IS WITH THE DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS (VA)"

Attached are the TWO NPRC responses to the TWO medical requests that were just under one year apart. In one case I received information, and in the most recent case I was told it does NOT exist at NPRC. Please understand that my mind is racing with "WTF!", anger, puzzlement, etc. Understanding that the records I am requesting are over 40yr old and existed with the NPRC last year, how can they now be "missing"?

FWIW, my disability rating came in Dec 2013 (for a 1972 TBI) and the examiners had way more medical records information in front of them on their PCs than I had ever received after my 2013 request for that SAME information. Some of that EXTRA medical records that I did NOT receive, but the examiners had and used, actually DID help me in receiving my 50% rating, BUT I am lost, feeling that the records that have been kept from me, could and probably do, indicate I should have a much higher rating than what was awarded.

I am about ready to launch a letter writing campaign including several Congressmen, the VA Secretary, and others. Is THAT my next step?

Edited August 23, 2014 by HorizontalMike

[georgiapapa]

Mike,

No I do not.

I think all original military records including medical records should be maintained at one central location like the NPRC. The ideal situation would be for the records to be placed on a database so they could accessed anytime by the individual veteran and/ or other agencies such as the VA. By placing the records on a database which is backed up to prevent unintentional loss of records, this would insure the records would always be available. Years ago, a lot of military records were lost in the fire in St. Louis. Today we have the technology available to prevent this from happening again.

This is just my opinion and I know the likelihood of the NPRC doing the above is slim to none.

Good luck to you.

[NavyWife]

I found that getting medical records is one of the most maddening parts of this process! So you are not alone in that!

Keep in mind, that LAST THING VA wants is for you to have your OWN medical records. That would allow you to prove your case and rebut any ridiculous denials they come up with. So they are going to make it very difficult.

Just a few notes based on my own observations:

Make multiple requests to NPRC. It even says on their website, that at your first request they will not send you everything.

Once a vet files a claim with VA, the regional office requests those records from NPRC. From that point on, those records are then stored at that regional office. If there is no activity for a long time, then the records are moved to VA Records Management Center. You should definitely send them a letter requesting your records. here's the link

http://www.va.gov/directory/guide/facility.asp?ID=5380

If your records are still at the regional office where you last had your claim processed, then the only way to get them is with a request for your C-file. VA will drag this out as long as possible. I've heard of many taking 1 or 2 years. If you live close to your regional office, then go in person and ask to "view your cfile". they might stall you by making you request an appointment for that.

Clearly you were dealing with an idiot employee at VA who couldn't explain to you that VBMS is the database that holds your cfile, among other things. Cfiles used to be all paper, but VA has decided they want everything electronic. So they are scanning all the paper cfiles into the electronic VBMS database.

All of your ships medical records go straight into your Service Medical Records aka Service Treatment Records.

Oakland Naval Hosp. (Oak Knoll) got demolished back in the 90s. Any other specific hospitals you went to, you can contact them and ask for a copy of any records they still have. I tried that and they said they were so old they had been sent to NPRC. They did turn up in the cfile.

Regarding the TBI, VA doesn't rate it based on how bad or severe your injury or accident was. They rate it based on the "residuals" or how it affects you now. Therefore, any old records will not help you get an increase in your TBI rating. All you can do to get that increased in file for an increase with a statement of your worsening residuals.

[Philip Rogers]

Generally, your service medical records, once transferred to the VA, are kept in your claims file, at your VARO. If you change States/VARO's and request your c-file be forwarded to your new VARO, then the c-file, w/those service medical records, will go to the new VARO. Your service medical records generally do not include stays in a military hospital. You have to contact that military hospital or if the military hospital was in VN, the NPRC would have them, in that hospital's archived records.

pr

[HorizontalMike]

Keep in mind, that LAST THING VA wants is for you to have your OWN medical records. .....they are going to make it very difficult.

Just a few notes based on my own observations:

Make multiple requests to NPRC. It even says on their website, that at your first request they will not send you everything.

Once a vet files a claim with VA, the regional office requests those records from NPRC. From that point on, those records are then stored at that regional office. If there is no activity for a long time, then the records are moved to VA Records Management Center. You should definitely send them a letter requesting your records. here's the link

http://www.va.gov/directory/guide/facility.asp?ID=5380

If your records are still at the regional office where you last had your claim processed, then the only way to get them is with a request for your C-file. VA will drag this out as long as possible. I've heard of many taking 1 or 2 years. If you live close to your regional office, then go in person and ask to "view your cfile". they might stall you by making you request an appointment for that.

All of your ships medical records go straight into your Service Medical Records aka Service Treatment Records.

Oakland Naval Hosp. (Oak Knoll) got demolished back in the 90s. Any other specific hospitals you went to, you can contact them and ask for a copy of any records they still have. I tried that and they said they were so old they had been sent to NPRC. They did turn up in the cfile.

Regarding the TBI, VA doesn't rate it based on how bad or severe your injury or accident was. They rate it based on the "residuals" or how it affects you now. Therefore, any old records will not help you get an increase in your TBI rating. All you can do to get that increased in file for an increase with a statement of your worsening residuals.

Yeah, understand that the VARO wants to make things difficult for any and all who makes requests. We''ll work on that one.

Q #1: So if my records are now at the VARO, does that mean ALL of my records are at the VARO? If so, that would make multiple requests to NPRC fruitless, wouldn't it?

Q#2: Does this NOW mean that I should be directing multiple requests at the VARO? You know, just to keep them awake and working?... ;-)

Q#3: How often should I be requesting my C-File? I requested once thus far, in the past month.

RE Oakland Naval Hospital... I did receive a 2-page progress report from a NPRC request in 2013. Don't know how much more there is though. My Disability Examiner and Rating stated something about my being treated for depression in 1973, and I am betting that that is also from Oakland Naval Hospital as well.

FWIW, about the TBI. I truly DID NOT know I had one in 1972. I only knew that I had had a motorcycle accident in service and did not even know the month or year when I first started asking questions about my ongoing major depression and 30-40yr of losing job after job after job. Even after three college degrees and three professional certifications, I could NOT keep a job longer than about 2yr. Long story made short -- I didn't know I had any brain damage. I told the neuro-psychologist that I just wanted to know... "Was I just born an axe hole or what?" and I said it in actual descriptive terms because of my 40 year history of losing jobs. This was before the whole psych workup and the MRI that showed a "stroke" as they called it. I call it ischemic insults because, as I am finding out, that is probably more accurate and probably tied to the TBI. I always thought other folks were picking on me, so I saved all of the reprimands, termination letters, axe chewings, etc. I was determined to get those folks back, never realizing that those documents only prove THEM right and not me. Coming to terms with this TBI thing 40yr late sure has its challenges. About all of those documents I saved... that is my basis of appeal. Being truly unaware of any TBI manifestations in my life, I was truly not prepared for what they found and determined.

[NavyWife]

Q #1: So if my records are now at the VARO, does that mean ALL of my records are at the VARO? If so, that would make multiple requests to NPRC fruitless, wouldn't it?

Not necessarily. In our case our first request they send us a letter pretty much like yours that said they don't have anything and it's all at the regional office. But on a second request two pages of medical records unseen before magically appeared.

Q#2: Does this NOW mean that I should be directing multiple requests at the VARO? You know, just to keep them awake and working?... ;-)

Q#3: How often should I be requesting my C-File? I requested once thus far, in the past month.

Definitely I sent them a letter every 30 days reminding them of my request and stating that it was the second request third request fourth request etc. It's really going to depend on your regional office how soon they give up the C file. If you're at a small office like Kansas or something you would probably get it in a couple months but if you're at one of the busy offices like one in California or Florida expect that it will take a really long time.

RE Oakland Naval Hospital... I did receive a 2-page progress report from a NPRC request in 2013. Don't know how much more there is though. My Disability Examiner and Rating stated something about my being treated for depression in 1973, and I am betting that that is also from Oakland Naval Hospital as well.

What exactly Is your goal with your claim?

It looks like you feel like you should be rated higher than 40% on the TBI?

Are you also trying to get depression secondary to the TBI?

Or are you going for a direct service connection for the depression?

What exactly did you file for previously, what was denied? And did you post your denial letter?

We can help more if we know exactly what your goals are.

FWIW, about the TBI. I truly DID NOT know I had one in 1972. I only knew that I had had a motorcycle accident in service and did not even know the month or year when I first started asking questions about my ongoing major depression and 30-40yr of losing job after job after job. Even after three college degrees and three professional certifications, I could NOT keep a job longer than about 2yr. Long story made short -- I didn't know I had any brain damage. I told the neuro-psychologist that I just wanted to know... "Was I just born an axe hole or what?" and I said it in actual descriptive terms because of my 40 year history of losing jobs. This was before the whole psych workup and the MRI that showed a "stroke" as they called it. I call it ischemic insults because, as I am finding out, that is probably more accurate and probably tied to the TBI. I always thought other folks were picking on me, so I saved all of the reprimands, termination letters, axe chewings, etc. I was determined to get those folks back, never realizing that those documents only prove THEM right and not me. Coming to terms with this TBI thing 40yr late sure has its challenges. About all of those documents I saved... that is my basis of appeal. Being truly unaware of any TBI manifestations in my life, I was truly not prepared for what they found and determined.

[HorizontalMike]

RE NPRC requests ...Definitely I sent them a letter every 30 days reminding them of my request and stating that it was the second request third request fourth request etc. It's really going to depend on your regional office how soon they give up the C file.

My VARO is the Houston Texas VARO, and I understand it is one of those "needs improvement" situations as ID'd by this latest VA shakeup.

• What exactly Is your goal with your claim?
• It looks like you feel like you should be rated higher than 40% on the TBI?

I have been unemployed and un-employable in my trained occupation in education, for 8-years and counting (PhD Educational Administration, Principal Certification, Teacher Certification). I bounced from education job to education job UNTIL I became unemployable because they don't even respond after awhile. I was unemployed for 6-years straight, at the time I approached the VA for help with my decades long ongoing major depression. I have documented negative manifestations of my TBI/Depression/Sleep disordered behavior that I can trace back to at least 1986. These are manifestations that show just how my TBI/Depression/Sleep disordered behavior effected and affects my ability to work. NONE of this was presented in the original claim because I was still pretty much in the dark about my disability. Only AFTER getting the rating and the listed criteria for ratings, that I realized just how much it has affected my life for +40-years.

And YES, I believe that my work ~30-years of related documentation shows my disability to a far greater extent than any pen&paper or verbal quiz could ever hope to. My disability deals with executive dysfunction. It is subtle yet has torpedoed my professional career aspirations time after time. FWIW, I do NOT believe that a MoCA test administered within the total 27min window of my TBI examiner's interview/assessment would be remotely adequate. IMO, ~30-years of work history strikes to the heart of the matter. And YES, I will probably best seek an IMO (or two) tying this all into my disability.

• Are you also trying to get depression secondary to the TBI? Or are you going for a direct service connection for the depression?

YES, secondary service connection to the TBI. VA also ruled on this aspect of TBI in the past year, just after my rating. Many sources but here is just one.

MY PROBLEM: The TBI clinic posted an error in my file when diagnosing my Major Depression. They mistakenly stated my depression "started when I fell off the ladder in 2010". This was NOT true, as that accident only contributed in exacerbating my decades long depression. I think they were distracted by the fact that I broke 23 ribs & vertebrae in that one accident. Anyway, it got entered into my Progress Notes as depression "starting in 2010", and then repeated in the disability examiner's rating decision(Dec 2013) to deny my depression as service connected. Luckily, my initial psych eval consult indicates depression as long term and entered BEFORE actually getting the complete psych workup. See attachment, part of consult..

I need to get this mistake in my record corrected in order to get the Depression correctly rated.

• What exactly did you file for previously, what was denied? And did you post your denial letter?
• We can help more if we know exactly what your goals are.

Original claim was:

• TBI Awarded 40%
• Tinnitus Awarded 10%
• Bilateral Hearing Loss Awarded at 0%
• Depression DENIED

See attached RATING.

We are going through this exact same thing. My hubby has a TBI from a head injury when he fell about 50 feet on a ship. We didn't really find out until recently how much that has affected his life. Many things that I thought were just "personality quirks" really originated from that accident. There are many ways it has manifested itself but the one that really causes the household the most turmoil, Is the mood swings- I have nicknamed him "Jekyll and Hyde". One minute he's happy fun guy and the next minute somebody says something wrong to him and he flies off the handle and the rest of the day is ruined and he goes outside and sulks.

While none of this is fun to go through, I do appreciate the empathy. Thank you!

And yes, I too have a similar reputation, though slightly different title... DrMike & Mr Hyde. I tend to rub my degree into the VA, and it tends to make my "doctors" very uncomfortable that I have an equal educational attainment to them, but in a different academic area. I am sure it chaffs them and that their gut reaction is more attuned to "If you are so smart, just get over it!" even though all have been careful to not say as much. Oops, my TBI is showing! This kind of thing has caused me to changes jobs several times... ;-(

Edited August 25, 2014 by HorizontalMike