Nprc No Record Of Mil Records

[Berta]

I have received a widow's claim from one of my vet orgs that has me stumped.

The veteran, now deceased, had a heart attack within 6 months after leaving the service.The type of heart disease he had could possibly fall into the presumptive category of 38 CFR 3.309 (a) (2006) and it obvioulsy manifested at 10% within the year after service.

The widow claims the hospital that treated him had a fire and all of the records showing the 1987 heart attack were destroyed.

I suggested that a possible reconstruction could had been done by the hospital or a state medical board because the fire surely destroyed records of many others too.Also I suggested trying to find the treating doctors.

Also his insurance provider at that time might well had records of his heart attack in 1987.

The widow claims that NPRC has stated to her many times that the service records are not there.

It is possible since she appears to have filed a DIC claim, that the VA has them already or if the vet got SSA, they too might have them.

Also she stated he got a Purple heart but it is not on his DD 214 so I sent her a DD 149 and this new search for the PH might also reveal where the SMRs are.

I received a letter from NPRC 2 years ago-

they had enclosed my husband's Navy records but stated that all of his Marine Corps records were at the VARO. And this was what I needed to find out as his Marine Corp records had been at the local SSA office for years.So I knew that my 2003 claim had generated the VA to get his Marine Corps SMRs.

I also have seen where the NPRC would tell other requestors where the records were if they didnt have them.

I think it is most unusual for the NPRC not to give a reason for their lack of records on this veteran.It seems that he served for 20 years.

Other than the VARO or SSA is there any other place that ones military records would be?

This is a deceased veteran. Still deceased veterans records should be obtainable from NPRC. Rod's were.

If the SMRs never show up I strongly suggested that- since the veteran had the 1987 he should have gotten 7 years more of cardiac care up to his death and these records would probably reveal a verification of the 1987 heart attack via ECHO or MRI etc. and this would help the claim considerably.

I got 4th party information on all this and it seemed that a service officer did not want to even file a DIC claim for the widow for some reason.Maybe because of no service records and no proof of 1987 hospitalization.???

I am just baffled if the service records are not at VARO due to her filing a DIC (if she did)

and not at SSA if he ever applied for SSA benefits-what she could do to obtain them.

Any thoughts?

Do 20 year retiree military records go to a different place than the NPRC?

Edited October 18, 2006 by Berta (see edit history)

[BoonDoc]

I'm shocked that NPRC would send the original SMR's any where and not a cert. copy!!

Boondoc

[jamesbond]

:(

I have received a widow's claim from one of my vet orgs that has me stumped.

The veteran, now deceased, had a heart attack within 6 months after leaving the service.The type of heart disease he had could possibly fall into the presumptive category of 38 CFR 3.309 (a) (2006) and it obvioulsy manifested at 10% within the year after service.

The widow claims the hospital that treated him had a fire and all of the records showing the 1987 heart attack were destroyed.

I suggested that a possible reconstruction could had been done by the hospital or a state medical board because the fire surely destroyed records of many others too.Also I suggested trying to find the treating doctors.

Also his insurance provider at that time might well had records of his heart attack in 1987.

The widow claims that NPRC has stated to her many times that the service records are not there.

It is possible since she appears to have filed a DIC claim, that the VA has them already or if the vet got SSA, they too might have them.

Also she stated he got a Purple heart but it is not on his DD 214 so I sent her a DD 149 and this new search for the PH might also reveal where the SMRs are.

I received a letter from NPRC 2 years ago-

they had enclosed my husband's Navy records but stated that all of his Marine Corps records were at the VARO. And this was what I needed to find out as his Marine Corp records had been at the local SSA office for years.So I knew that my 2003 claim had generated the VA to get his Marine Corps SMRs.

I also have seen where the NPRC would tell other requestors where the records were if they didnt have them.

I think it is most unusual for the NPRC not to give a reason for their lack of records on this veteran.It seems that he served for 20 years.

Other than the VARO or SSA is there any other place that ones military records would be?

This is a deceased veteran. Still deceased veterans records should be obtainable from NPRC. Rod's were.

If the SMRs never show up I strongly suggested that- since the veteran had the 1987 he should have gotten 7 years more of cardiac care up to his death and these records would probably reveal a verification of the 1987 heart attack via ECHO or MRI etc. and this would help the claim considerably.

I got 4th party information on all this and it seemed that a service officer did not want to even file a DIC claim for the widow for some reason.Maybe because of no service records and no proof of 1987 hospitalization.???

I am just baffled if the service records are not at VARO due to her filing a DIC (if she did)

and not at SSA if he ever applied for SSA benefits-what she could do to obtain them.

Any thoughts?

Do 20 year retiree military records go to a different place than the NPRC?

[jamesbond]

:(

:D

I suppose you are trying to get the widow her DIC benefits. You should find out first whether the deceased veteran had any pending claims at the time of his death. Also, I would like to suggest you write the VA regional office to provide you copies of the veterans entire VA file to include any service records in their possesion.

These service records may show that when the veteran was in service he was treated for a heart condition. Those records are not at NPRC. Records of retired veterans or deceased veteran are stored at a different facility or location. National Archives may have some of these records. Get ahold of the veteran's entire service personnel file! You can go to the Veterans Affairs web cite and pull up Part IV of the M21-1. When you pull this up you will find a section entitled procuring service records. This will give you all the information you need to get these records!

If VA has any service records showing treatment for the heart condition you would then need to link the death of the veteran (the heart condition) to some disease or injury in service.

Another suggestion is to get ahold of the veteran's prescriptions for his heart condition. You should be able to get these from the facility or Pharmacy who filed the veteran's medication.

Good luck!

[Berta]

Thanks much James! Yes- you are correct-they do retire records after service somewhere else although the NARA web site says to order them via NARA---- even for deceased veterans.

This veteran never had a VA claim at all.

The wife -I just found out- has never made formal DIC application.

There is another form in addition to the SF 180 that one can use to attempt to find missing records.

http://www.archives.gov/st-louis/military-...cal-records.pdf

I am not all that sure that the wife did contact NARA.

Certainly if she files the application for DIC the VA will attempt to find them.

[Guest jstacy]

Berta, Did the Widow get a copy of th Death Certificate, Aslo, was an Autopsy Performed.

Cardiovascular disease is within the 1 year post service presupmtive period.

She does not really need to obtain the records, She needs a Doctor to make a statement that the whatever heart disease had was Chronic based on the Death Cerfificate or Autopsy report.

She should go ahead and file the claim. She should try to get the SMR. But tell her it is not as much as a necessity as a Veteran who has been out for 20 years.

This should be a DIC slam dunk for this lady.

[Berta]

Thanks John- no autopsy done- and no record of the heart attack he had within the presumptive year after discharge.

The hospital which treated him for this had a fire and the medical records were all burned.

I have suggested other ways she could get the heart attack confirmed.

Also any treatment records for the 7 years from the CAD event to his death would surely reveal this heart attack as Hx - in the veteran's medical history.

James is right too- and I mentioned this to her this AM via the contact person she is using from one of my vet orgs.

Pharmacy records would most likely not have been a part of the fire and could at least show he received further treatment.

I sent her contact person the entire 38 CFR 3.309 because the heart disease criteria does not seem to cover all types of heart disease but a good medical opinion could certainly be more specific on that.

Even if the SMRs cannot be found you are correct as there were 7 months more after his CAD and discharge in which medical records could have been generated by another medical center or doctor. Medical records which could still put his disease into the 10% presumptive criteria.

I have not seen this veteran's DD 214 or death certificate -I am going by a third party's questions.

I hope he actually did get medical care for the 7 years before death for heart disease since the proof of the initial heart attack was burned up in the hospital fire.

I need more info and the wife is supposed to contact me directly after she receives the email I sent to her contact person.

It could be a much different situation than I think.

The proof of the heart attack ,within one year of service discharge, but 7 years prior to his death, is critical.

If the widow cannot prove that-or if medical records from 1987 to his death do not show cardiac care ,I dont know what else she could do.

[Guest jstacy]

I see your Delimma. She needs to keep on looking for anything that will raise a suspicion.

She should also talk to some of his old buddies, Golf, Fishing, Drinking, To see ot they remember anything.

[LarryJ]

Berta,

Even if the hospital records did burn (frankly, I'd call the hospital to confirm this. I'm an old healthcare engineer, member of the American Society of Healthcare Engineers (ASHE) and, for many years while I could still work, a consultant for the Joint Commission on Accreditation of Healthcare Organizations, and my speciality was "Life Safety" i.e. fire and fire prevention..............) and I don't recall a hospital burning during that particular period of time. And, trust me, if one had burned, I'd have been there and I'd remember it!

But, having said all that, if the records did in fact burn, then it should be a simple matter of finding out who his doctor was (you know, there can't be that many cardiologists/cardiac/thoracic surgeons hanging around) and they would have his treatment records.

But, and I hate to be this way, but, there is something about Denmark and fish that comes to my mind...

Yup, 1987, I woulda been there............Heck, they called me to help out when Tulane and Charity Hospital went "under", literally went "under", and I'd been not able to work for several years at that time.......

[john999]

Funny how vet's records are always burning up in fires. My dad's records buned up in the St. Louis fire but I had his old discharge papers.

[Philip Rogers]

I'm shocked that NPRC would send the original SMR's any where and not a cert. copy!!

Boondoc

Custody of all service records belongs to the branch of service and most are generally stored at the NPRC. When the VA requests the records, the originals and custody there of is transferred to the VA. From there it's easy for them to get lost.

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