Black Ops

[crazyhorse3022]

Is the va able to access operations that were classified and never happened. I have a claim in and not sure if it will help to tell them I was involved in black ops. No records.

[crazyhorse3022]

Can the va access any info on classified ops. I was involved in black ops for 10 days which is an important part of my claim tho I can't discuss it.

[Berta]

In some cases the military can declassify sensitive records, but only to the extent of need for a VA claim..

The inservice injury or stressor would have to be very detailed as to time and place.

My daughter was USAF Intel (Top Secret) for 7 years and was told that they could definitely declassify anything needed for the purposes of a VA claim. She has never filed a VA claim so I don't know if that is true but many years ago here someone had some of their records declassified for their claim.


The VA would have to contact Joint Service Records Research Center and U.S. Special Operations Command

I see you are 70% SC now. If I were you I would get a copy of my C file to see if there is anything in it to help you.


I know it is very possible that Nothing will even show up in your records involving the mission you were on.


This veteran was unsuccessful in raisng 'Black Ops' for his claim:

http://www.va.gov/vetapp06/Files3/0615267.txt

It did not help this vet either.:

http://www.va.gov/vetapp00/files3/0022489.txt

In 2010 the PTSD regulations changed ...if you are claiming PTSD, you need to read the criteria here in our PTSD forum.

This vet however appeared to have given enough Black Ops details that prompted a second BVA remand:

http://www.va.gov/vetapp14/Files6/1446616.txt

In my opinion, unless the service record prior to and after the Black Ops event supports a possibility of a Black Ops situation (as well as a classified MOS)
and, if for a PTSD claim, the conditions in the 2010 regulations criteria are met ,without even mentioning the Black Ops,
I would not raise that issue at all, unless you can give very specific details to the VA.

Please read the above BVA decisions to see what I mean and why the first 2 vets got no where with their claims based on Black Ops..

[Buck52]

Do you have a DX a Service connected Disability from your military days,? or a Dr reports that it was least likely as not happen while in military?

Maybe other than a PTSD Dx? Injury or illness!

I was in special operations while in Vietnam for 60 days at a time & had to have re-issue orders every 60 days to travel in-country without a convoy.

They were only 3 of us at the time & (it was classified) I did this for 18 months.

They got my records when I filed my claim...I realize its not the same thing as Black Ops ...but I had classified orders.

Some records do not go into your c-file

I am not sure there in my c-file at this time?..I never seen them so I assume they got them some where else?

There has to be a way to find your records for a compensation claim.

I'm thinking you need a Diagnosis of injury or illness while in military or after discharge.

If you were in a combat zone Vietnam or in Desert Storm ,Operation Freedom ,The Gulf War, Iraq Afghan war boots on ground I believe you can go on presumption with explanation from you. DD214 should prove that.

Ms Berta 1st the veteran you mention did not have a PTSD Dx?? the second the board mention he did not meet the merits?

.............Buck

Edited May 19, 2015 by Buck52

[Berta]

I parsed the BVA statements here, for sake of brevity.

It pays to read entire BVA cases that I give links to here.

More than anything (except for the VBM) BVA cases have taught me more than I ever thought I would know as to how the BVA thinks and utilizes the regulations. The BVA lawyers are a big cut above the ROs.

The first decision states:

"The Axis I diagnosis included "f what he says is true:
Axis I: 309.81 Posttraumatic stress disorder, chronic,
delayed."
"As was noted by the RO,
service medical and personnel records fail to establish the
veteran engaged in combat, burial duty involving the
delivering of "KIA" to their home towns and families, or
that the veteran was assigned to a special task force
identified as "black ops." There is also no evidence of
medals or citations, travel orders, wounds incurred, or any
evidence which would indicate that the veteran even left the
United States. The veteran has been asked to provide details
that could be confirmed by an independent source but he has
not yet provided sufficient details that would warrant
further investigation. As stated by the United States Court
of Appeal for Veterans Claims (known as the United States
Court of Veterans Appeals prior to March 1, 1999, hereafter
"the Court"), it has been held that asking a veteran to
provide the underlying facts such as the names of individuals
involved, the dates, and the places where the claimed events
occurred, does not constitute an impossible or an onerous
task. Wood, 1 Vet. App. at 193."

"ORDER

The claim of service connection for PTSD is denied. "

http://www.va.gov/vetapp06/Files3/0615267.txt

In the second case:

"1. All relevant evidence necessary for an equitable
disposition of this appeal has been obtained by the RO, given
the veteran's limited information regarding claimed PTSD
stressors.

2. The veteran is not shown to have engaged in combat with
the enemy.

3. Although two private psychiatric examiners give a
diagnosis of PTSD, the evidence of record contains no
diagnosis of PTSD based on any verified, or verifiable, in-
service stressor.

4. None of the veteran's claimed in-service stressors has
been corroborated, and the veteran has not provided
sufficient information to permit verification of his claimed
stressors, despite numerous requests and opportunities to do
so. "

ORDER

The claim of service connection for PTSD is denied.

http://www.va.gov/vetapp00/files3/0022489.txt


In the third case:

"1. Contact the NPRC and specifically request that it determine if there are any classified service medical and personnel records for the Veteran, primarily as it relates to events surrounding his purported duty in a "black ops" unit in Laos and North Vietnam in 1962 and his purported capture (and 6 day detainment) by a small group of North Vietnamese in February 1962 and March 1962. If such records exist, request that these records be released to VA. If such records are not in the possession of the NPRC, request that they identify what government agency would keep such records.

A formal determination, pursuant to 38 C.F.R. § 3.159©(2), must be entered if it is determined that the above records do not exist or that efforts to obtain them would be futile. If classified records exist but due to their classification cannot be released to VA, this information should be provided to the Veteran. In the event that it is determined that the records are unavailable, provide the Veteran with appropriate notice under 38 C.F.R. § 3.159©, and give him an opportunity to respond."

This decisions to remand was due to a CAVC remand which probably holds much more information on the veteran's situation in service, but I dont have time to find the CAVC remand.

http://www.va.gov/vetapp14/Files6/1446616.txt

[Buck52]

Your Correct Ms Berta!

................Buck

[pushbroom]

Tell the VA to Foia the AGENCY, UNIT, or COMMAND you were working under/with. They will reply back with something about not being able to.....for national security reasons. Then they will rate under benefit of the doubt.

If you do not have the VA Foia they will likely not respond. YOU CANNOT DO THE FOIA YOURSELF! Must come from the VA.

This is how to do it.