Bva Case Psychiatric Records Destroyed After 5 Years

[Josephine]

Hi,

I read this on one of the BVA cases. This is something that I didn't know. What do you all know about it?

http://www.va.gov/vetapp06/files3/0619822.txt

Citation Nr: 0619822

Decision Date: 07/07/06 Archive Date: 07/13/06

DOCKET NO. 05-35 363 ) DATE

)

)

On appeal from the

Department of Veterans Affairs Regional Office in St.

Petersburg, Florida

However, the SMRs do not include mental health records, such as psychological

evaluations and other mental health consultations.

Such records are normally retained by the facility that created the record for 5 years before the records are destroyed.

While the mental health records concerning the veteran may have been destroyed, a request to obtain these records must be made.

Is this why the VA was so shocked that my " Psychiatric Consultations" were at the NARA, and I acquired them some 42 years later.

Josephine

[Berta]

Right-in service medical care certainly shows the veteran was treated in service.

The problem is what were they treated for?

The BVA has stated in claims- I posted one some time ago here - that the normal rigors of service are not ratable disabilities.A service person could seek psychiatric attention while in service with complaints that do not rise to the level of a ratable disability after they leave service-

that is why the Nexus factor is so important.

The BVA in some cases has identified situations the veteran reported which could be bonafide stressors, or any type of nexus or cause for an inservice mental condition.The BVA upon remand will highlight that as part of the remand and the VA and the vet should do all they can to find proof of this- particularily of the BVA finds potential cause of depression or anxiety etc-

SMRs that help a vet by showing the vet had inservice treatment for mental health issues also should reveal what problems brought the service person to the doctor-in service-in the first place.

That is a nexus.

For example the bi polar friend I have-

He spent brig time for a few days with no mental health counselling at all.He had nothing in his SMRs that showed he had any type of mental health issues.

Docs in those days did not even understand Manic Bi polar illness.

He was written up as having disciplinary action for what happened that caused him to be thrown into the brig.There were some bizarre incidents that day which he did that made them put him there.

I helped him prove to VA that this was first manifestation of Manic Bi polar. He was formally diagnosed with this a litle after the first year after service but the VA refused to SC him.

I met him just before the VA kicked him out of the Bath Dom.They only wanted SC vets there.

He won 100% Manic Bipolar SC -about two years ago-

he offered to take me to lunch in Europe!

Of course I didnt go-

His retro was enormous and correctly the VA deemed him incompentent and the wife handles his money- good thing- he would have spent it all in a weekend.

The VA erred in the award and I prepared either a Cue or a NOD -forget what and he got more more in retro-

This long story shows that the VA uses the Hickson element-

no way to get around it in claims that are not presumptive (or filed within one year after discharge)

1. current diagnosed and treated disability

2. inservice event, accident, stressor, rape, situation, reason, cause, etiology etc etc that caused the current disability or was manifestation of it.

3. medical evidence that shows # 2 is related to # 1

In my friends case it was the personnel file that held the discipline report on the brig time.This was the first manifestation of his manic bi polar illness.It happened while he was aboard ship.

A VA shrink completely agreed.

Twelve years after filling this claim he succeeded.

His Hickson elements:

1.Present current Bi polar diagnosis well documented and treated consistently for 40 years by VA and other docs.

2.Brig time as first manifestation of illness in service

3.Medical statement that provided support and established the proven nexus- the disciplinary action report-

He could have succeeded sooner but kept losing the rebuttal stuff I sent him and the SF 180 to get the brig report.Then when they did send it he lost that too.

The DAV didnt not see any potential award here at all.

They just bought a new home and are planning another major trip to Europe.And the VA paid for his daughters bachelors degree under Chap 35.

Edited March 20, 2007 by Berta

[Josephine]

Berta,

I know exactly what you are saying. I am just not sure what you and the VA consider the normal rigor of service life.

My medical records states dis-satisfied with working conditions and the living conditions in the barrracks.

I would guess this was a kind way for the psychiatrist in service to repeat what I was saying.

I did not consider being cursed by navy physicans and being jerked by the neck until you wet yourself the normal.

I didn't think that coat hanger abortions and girls cutting their wrist for an early discharge the normal either.

I went to Dr. C for the Cafergot for the headaches and the Librium for my nerves. That is what anxiety was called in the 1960's.

I looked in the DSM III and nervousness was the name for what we call anxiety now.

I would not be rated under the DSM- IV of today.

If your service records state that you were in consultation for nervousness, headaches and irratibility and wish an early discharge, there must be a reason for it, especially if you had a request for transfer in your personnel records months before asking for the early discharge.

If you enlistment papers ask the questions - nervous or some sort or insane and you checked the paper no and you have continued on the same medication for the next 40 years, this sounds like a plausible statement to me.

I have a buddy letter who was with me and was the eye witnesss that you speak of.

" Doris" was a stressor to me, but in my mind even today, my stressor was trying to stay alive myself in the pool.

I just don't think that my service experience was normal.

So far, I have never seen anyone post any experiences as I had at a duty station.

Thanks,

Josephine

[Berta]

This is why the BVA brought up the letter they had that you wrote to the President which stated you had witnessed a drowning of a servicewoman.

That could be for many people a stressor, or event that caused them anxiety or depression.

That is why the remand contained the request that this event be supported with more evidence.

Any death of a serviceperson has a record.I mentioned ways in the past that this could be supported by evidence.

My daughter was in Tech school for 2 years.

Not only did a teacher from Vietnam have a nervous breakdown due to PTSD there but the scuttlebutt was that service persons had committed suicide due to the stress of this tech school.Dont know if that is true.

Someoe else told me that-not my daughter.

The VA does not care about the rigors of service at all.

They have probably all been through it too.

In the 1960s some Marines drowned during an exercise at Parris Island.

There was quite a fuss in the news about this.

They had been ordered to march into a swamp.

Their DI got in trouble until the military or whoever had decided he had NOT ordered them to die.He did not receive any negative marks on his record as I understand.

I think the USMC might have considered this event as a normal rigor of service- a bizarre example-

this one is better- normal rigors of service-

At my daughters high school Grad-the ones who had joined the service were named. One of the women had received a full scholarship to the US Army Military Academy.Everyone made a big deal of it.

Three weeks after being at the academy- she was back in the hills of NY-

she said she couldnt stand all the screaming and hollering and it all gave her too much stress.

Can she be compensated for this? NO she experienced the rigors of service.

Marines in the olden days (1950s - 60s) were brutalized by their DIs.Punching and slapping , screaming etc etc-i Boot Camp-it was normal SOP.Als it was

the normal rigors of service.

The BVA focused in on a nexus factor in your remand.

I saw this as the most important part of your claim.

If a vet experienced something that would be a stressor for most people-

and suffers from anxiety or depression due to this stressor and it is proven- then it would add weight to challenge a medical diagnosis that could possibly be incorrect.

It would be like- remeber when those families were told that the missing miners had been found alive when a coal mine had collapsed last year? Then 3 hours later they were told the truth-the miners were all found dead-

Say they all went to shrinks with insomnia,nervousness, and anxiety-and yet never mentioned this Mine incident-a shrink could diagnose them with all sorts of mental illnesses.

But say they all told the shrinks however of the horrible events of that day.

A good shrink would see that they clearly had symptoms of PTSD.

The proven nexus -cause, stressor, event, rape, accident, whatever

is often the key to a proper diagnosis.

Edited March 21, 2007 by Berta

[Josephine]

Sorry it posted twice.

Josephine

Edited March 22, 2007 by Josephine

[Josephine]

I only posted this BVA Case, at the request of one on this site.

I do not think that the VA should be destroying psychiatric records of any veteran after 5 years at their duty station. When they file a claim, where is the proof?

Josephine

Edited March 22, 2007 by Josephine

[spike]

I am going to inform you Berta of things that went on while I was in the CORPS. I know that in my platoon of 80 recruits, there were only 6 left after 4 years of service still active. All I'd rather indicate is that 3 were released for trauma, 2 had multiple personality disorder (one was diagnosed in speaking to himself indicating the other person was the Sgt Major of the USMC) the other (a guy who got put in the closet for 1 week at a time (3 times) during the 3 months in the USMC). A whistleblower (doesn't someone all have a Pvt Pile) was lost in the sauce because he disappeared while in boot. Two guys got broken noses with the two sheets in a blanket. I know 1 guy from Kentucky (recruit) was released for being tramatized while in boot for a grown man wetting his bed for a long time.....I cant say his name but last name is Abbott was discharged and his friend for both going up to General Krulak and stating that they couldnt do it anymore, and saying they were going to shoot themselves or committ suicide (they were discharged by the USMC almost immediately and escorted...without any Pysch evals by order the Commandant on base. I ranted on what I knew for one reason, stuff still happens from the rigors of the service and i know there was an investigation done on 2nd Bn Hotel Company Sr Drill SSGT Garza in '98, but somethings get swept under the carpet and records lost....things like this start the traumatic events. But I am sure the documents were destroyed or ignored before the 5 years.