tdiu Is Total And Permanent Needed For Individual Unemployability?

[tssnave]

Is it necessary to have a “total and permanent” assessment verified to get Individual Unemployment?

The reason I ask is that I have a form from my POA for my doctor to complete. It has the rating schedule for mental disorders at 70% (where my symptoms fall out) and 100% (where, thankfully, they don’t). However, because of my symptoms, I am not able to hold down a job so we are going to go for 100% IU. I haven’t worked for the last several years other than a brief job that I got fired from due to my sc mental disability causing attendance and concentration problems.

In addition to the 70% and 100% rating criteria, this form also asks if the doctor believes that “In your opinion, is the veteran unemployable due to his service connected psychiatric condition (to include sedentary employment) Yes/No.”

OK, no problem with that one. I believe both my doc and psychologist will say yes to that one due to my problems and work history I am unemployable.

There is a second question that asks, “In your opinion, is the veteran’s service connected psychiatric condition permanent and total in nature? Yes/No”

I believe this last question will present a problem. Even though I have been treated for my mental disorder for over 25 years and have had severe reactions to psychotropic drugs, since there are new drugs on the market that I have not tried (and am afraid to try given the severe reactions I’ve had to other drugs) I do not believe either one of them will say yes, it is permanent and total.

No psychologist wants to say he can’t fix you with counseling and a referral to a psychiatrist for drugs. My primary care doctor refuses to prescribe any psych meds because of my past history with bad reactions and wants me to go to a psychiatrist as well for a med referral. At the present, I have not gone to a psychiatrist nor do I intend to (look, I’ve almost killed myself on psych drugs and at least when I’m not on drugs I don’t kill myself – call me crazy, I do have mental disorder – but I just don’t see the percentage in trying any more drugs).

So, while I believe they will check the rating schedule for 70% which is where my symptoms fall out and they will check yes for unemployable, I do not think they will check yes for permanent and total.

If they say that my psychiatric condition is not permanent and total in nature will it prevent me from being rated 100% for Individual Unemployability?

Thanks,

tssnave

Edited April 3, 2007 by tssnave

[Hoppy]

tsnave,

If it is a requirement for IU, then the doctors have no problem saying YES. I know of many veterans who are 70% + IU for psych conditions. Psychologists are not as optimistic about the outcome of treatment as you might think they are. Especially, as in a case where the condition as existed for 25 years.

Stay in treatment, get some rest and do not worry about this until you cross this bridge. Wait until they say "NO" before you start fighting them in your own mind. You can always fight them later. It does not seem to me to be as improbable that they say "NO" as you might think.

[john999]

You can still be rated IU even if you are not rated P&T. If you are rated as IU and are denied the P&T you can appeal that denial. The VA will probably look over your treatment records and decide if you are then considered P&T.

[sixthscents]

I thought I posted a response to this but my DSL modem is acting up so I'll try again.

Permanent and Total is NOT required for TDIU...

How it works is the VA can grant TDIU with a follow-up date in the future to see if the disabling condition has improved. They actually do this quite a bit. Then if it has they can remove the TDIU, or if not either grant T&P or set another date.

In fact the VA can do this with ANY rated injury. They can set a follow-up date for the future if they think the condition might improve, and at that time can either decrease the rating, or simply accept it and follow the same path of resetting the follow-up date, or granting permanent rating....

I mostly see this with PTSD actually, and some low-back claims. The problem is though that the NOT granting of T&P means that ChampVA, Chapter 35 and a whole slew of ancilliary benefits are not allowed. So, whenever possible fight for T&P.

[Guest RickB54]

The short answer is NO. P/T is not a requirement for TDIU. However, you will need T/P for dependant Education, and Champva medical care for dependants.

[Ricky]

T/P is a status assigned to a rating by the VA after they have determined that the disability is static and no future possibility exists for improvement in the disability. It is not a requirement for any VA rating.

[theotherguy]

What everyone here has said is correct, but I wanted to add that VA's failure to establish DEA when granting IU benefits is a very frequent error. If the evaluation of any of your service-connected conditions is going to be reviewed in the future, there should be some discussion regarding this fact towards the end of your rating decision. On my last rating decision, it was provided in the last paragraph. If you have not received this notice, the odds are that VA forgot to consider the issue of permanency.

Your representative should have a copy of your rating decision and could also look at the code sheet of the decision which established IU and tell you whether or not a future examination has been established. If no examination is listed on the code sheet then the VA should have granted DEA.