diabetes Agent Orange Question(S)

[CCC]

Hey, all. Not new here, but can't remember my log-in information, so I am ashamedly starting over. :)

I have a question or two related to Agent Orange exposure, disability, etc. If there's a place where I can read up on it, please direct me so I don't have to waste anyone's time, but y'all have been so helpful before.

OK, my husband is disabled. His paperwork says 50% but he's rated at 60%. I don't understand how that works, but he said it's a VA thing, and not supposed to make sense.

Reading here, and online, we got a little information regarding his exposure. He was never in Vietnam, but was Vietnam era. He was working at several Army bases as an MP, where AO was sprayed as a defoliant. Many of those Army bases are now considered "superfund" sites by the EPA because of the toxicity levels.

He has heart disease, type 2 diabetes, emphysema and a myriad of other conditions. The only one, at this time, considered service connected, is his heart. He had a heart attack when he was stationed in California, and this was about 10 years after his exposure to AO. This is all in his records, and he has no history of heart disease, himself or family.

We got notification yesterday of other documents needed, such as proving how AO resulted in heart disease, etc. I was wondering if anyone had any idea of how I would go about doing that? I'm not sure what my next step should be.

We are a little confused on how we are supposed to proceed. There were no tests done on him while he was in the military for anything - he said in the entire 20 years he was in the military, never once does he remember his finger being pricked or being checked for sugar. He remembers being in Ft. Carson, CO, and they were going to have to ship him to another base because he was having so much trouble breathing - he couldn't acclimate to the higher climate.

He was stationed at 5 different sites which are now considered EPA superfund sites, and especially remembers AO being sprayed along the fenceline, regularly, at Seneca Army Depot, also a superfund site. He said they sprayed it regularly, because it was a nuke depot, and they had to keep the weeds away from the fenceline.

Anyway, any help would be appreciated on how to proceed.

Thanks in advance. :)

[CCC]

and thanks for the links, y'all. Reading the hearing loss one now, and will go to the SVR one later.

[CCC]

OK a couple more questions if I may.

In that document regarding the conference on herbicides (the one from 1972 that specifically mentions AO on line 19) - how would one use that information as base-specific, or site-specific? It tells what they are going to use, but not where.

Also, how would one find out what time the chemicals were used? I would hate for him to look like a chump, going into the C&P meeting and claiming that DDT and DDE caused his diabetes, when they weren't even used at a base he was stationed at until 5 years after he left (for example).

[boomer2]

CCC

If you take the link I gave you from AO legacy and the one Capt Contaminate posted you should be able to cross reference them. I believe it gives the dates when it was sprayed. My hearing is so bad that I can't even hear my cell phone. I have a blue tooth device (VA supplied) that connects my phone to my HA's that's the only way I can hear it.

[Capt.]

Hello CCC,

I would like to encourage you to make an attempt to Freedom of Information Act the bases that you think your husband may have been stationed at where AO might have been. I have posted the Training seminar with those personnel in attendance and the places the individuals were stationed. However trying to get your hands on:

DA Form 2785-R Installation Natural Resources Management

and

DD 1532 Pest Control Summary Report

MAY BE VERY DIFFICULT........... but should you FOIA for these documents and request the years for them you may ACCIDENTALLY get them if someone just messes up. These are the forms that would prove any veterans case. They were used nearly every time a chemical was applied such as AO on most bases. Even those overseas. However the DOD is very reluctant to release these even with FOIA request. I will not discourage you from trying as it might work for you. It would be awesome if one of our Veterans could produce some of these reports that he or she used in their claim just to be able to see one person who got the records.

I can tell you that I have had no success with FOIA on my request but believe that Fort Greely is just one base that is so SENSITIVE that DOD is not going to cooperate with anything to do with that place. I do not believe that it will be as difficult for you as it has been for myself and Jerrel Cook. Both of us have tried to get material from Fort Greely and it has been limited. What I have posted is a miracle in itself to have made it this far.

Please understand that AO may remain active for many years and you can pull up research on this subject. James Cripps is another person who has much knowledge on this subject. It takes evidence and IMOs to link it and though it is better to have the years in question line up with the active years , it is not necessary with the right scientific evidence and IMOs. Connecting the dots is what has to be done.

Your claim does not have to have specifically listed only as Agent Orange. It may be listed as Herbicide and the Environmental reports need to say 2,4,5,T , or 2,4,5,DD,,,or D , 2,4,5,DDT, which will suffice to the DOD requirements. Sometimes the backdoor approach is best. For instance, I went to the Alaska Dept of Environmental Conservation and found a huge amount of Evidence that the DOD did not want to see hit them in the face. Please try and use your state agencies with regards to these types of chemicals. The EPA usually trys and backfiles the issues. Try to use ATSDR records searches too. I hope this will help you in your effort to get this resolved. I also believe that you will need IMOs and someone to "package" this in a way as propel it toward a favorable decision with the VA. Above all please.............NEVER GIVE UP. God Bless, C.C.

Edited January 11, 2012 by Capt.Contaminate

[CCC]

Cap - I found that out just today. I was foolishly thinking that I was going to find documents that said 'hey we sprayed AO here', and when I found out the chemicals that make up AO, i started finding things. That backdoor approach may be what I need.

I spoke with the C&P Examiner today. She was very straight forward and matter of fact. I'm going to go read up on the C&P section later on, but right now I am putting together this puzzle of 'what chemical is what?' I got a little dejected today. I was searching for, say for instance, chlordane. Alpha Chlordane is a chemical that was sprayed at Tooele and Fort Ord, both of where he was stationed. Based on the research I found, Chlordane very clearly causes Type II Diabetes. I was wondering if Alpha Chlordane and Chlordane were the same thing, and thought if I went to a chemistry forum, I could ask simple questions like 'are these the same?' and get simple answers.

I introduced myself and told them what I was doing, with regards to the research, etc. I even asked permission to ask these types of questions from time to time. I was answered with a "well it'd be better if you tried to find it yourself first, but....."

Of course I am trying to find it myself but some questions are just better answered by people who know the difference. Won't make the mistake of asking them anything else.

Boomer -- that is my next project. What i did today is print out the 4 bases that are Superfund sites, and I am going to start matching up chemicals. I saw another list that y'all posted for me that had other places on there, but it was hard to decipher the list. Several bases on there, sometimes mentioned several times. That will be the project after next!

Anyway, I am so thankful that y'all are helping me (and him). I was kind of afraid to ask, afraid that I would get yelled at for trying to do this.

[CCC]

OK guys and gals. I'm in the stage of my research that I have to place him at the contaminated bases. I was wondering if someone could take a look at this link and tell me if they think I could use this as proof that he was there during the time that contaminants were used and/or buried in landfills.

http://www.epa.gov/superfund/sites/rods/fulltext/e0904110.pdf

This is Fort Ord. He was stationed there from 1981 until he had his heart attack in 1984. There are several chemicals and toxins there that I found on the EPA website, that can be damaging to your heart, among other things.